[N & M]

Originally Posted by X3paul

Its a shame bmw going back to same sausage etc. i will miss the stunning bonet lines

The images here are not quite right but you are right. This same design different sizes approach does not work well in the loans run as it destroys creativity and does not allow each product to represent its targeted design potential.

This is also true for the interiors where in my opinion (and quality and function aside), visually the design looks like it has gone stale when compared to Mercedes or Tesla for example.

[paul223]

BMW can remove bottom LEDs, angel eyes are enough, so you can tell from far away "IT'S A BMW!".

[dhirm5]

Nice renders - thanks for taking the time.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Thanks Scott26, this has been a labour of love trying to decipher the spy pictures. I'm sure the real car will look better than the render for obvious reasons...

I have had the pleasure of seeing the real renderings and I am happy to say the cat looks sharper and more dynamic on the outside.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Excellent. Minor details outstanding but excellent.

I miss the days when we actually surprise people at launches.

[majaste]

Thank-You for the "render", at least this gives folks an imaginative taste of what MAY come with the new 5. Particulars side, you took the time to even give a good hint and it's much appreciated by all I'm sure.

I do have to agree with one of the previous comments, gone are the days of individual series styling...

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by bimmermaus650

It's not a bad looking car by any means but I really don't like/understand this trend of connecting the headlights to the grill. I'm very nervous to see what the 2018 6 series will look like. Maybe by then I will have given into the madness and learned to like the new "alien car" look.

ETTO but my current F30 is my first BMW and I prefer the lights being connected to the grill - anything else looks old-fashioned/old man style.

[SCOTT26]

The F10 is the best selling 5er yet. So it makes absolute sense to not distract from the successful formula of that car. Although it seems nothing has changed...Everything has.

I do not think we will see an exercise in risk like the E60 for a mainstream vehicle ever again. The possibility to do so is probable with BMWi.
But you will never see a radical departure like the E60 from BMW or yet any other manufacturer for a volume vehicle.

[shanecarmaster1]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The F10 is the best selling 5er yet. So it makes absolute sense to not distract from the successful formula of that car. Although it seems nothing has changed...Everything has.

I do not think we will see an exercise in risk like the E60 for a mainstream vehicle ever again. The possibility to do so is probable with BMWi.
But you will never see a radical departure like the E60 from BMW or yet any other manufacturer for a volume vehicle.

Oh, like the dismal sales of the new 7er?

Mind you the e60 was best selling, even better than the e39 too. It was controversial, but it drove amazingly well (sans harsh run flat tires), and sold too. People are starting to get bored. They're going to get bored with looking at what looks like almost the same car, and they'll be bored behind the wheel of a car they thought would drive like the once- Ultimate Driving Machine. I've sold my F02 because it was a boaty limo. Inputs were generally responsive, but that was the end of its amazing driving dynamics.

The new E Class embarrasses anything offered from BMW right now sans something like the M2. I can't wait to see how that plays out.

[Pinkoboe]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

So it looks like a big 3 series. What a surprise.

Not my image, but this picture does a great job of explaining BMW's current styling trend. It is regrettable that the Company is no longer comfortable taking any chances with design.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by unit

Not my image, but this picture does a great job of explaining BMW's current styling trend. It is regrettable that the Company is no longer comfortable taking any chances with design.

This is so ridiculous. BMW pioneered the "same sausage different length" formula nearly 40 years ago. Bangle broke it up, and people hated him. Now it turns out he was right and people claim BMW is going back to their old ways.

Look at an E21 3 series vs an E28 5 series vs an E23 7. Very similar.

Fast forward one generation and the E30, E34 and E32 were all but identical.

BMW has returned to its roots of proportion and details being the difference.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Interesting discussion on the design.

I think that it's very difficult for an automaker to change the design direction of a very successful model such as the current 5 series. Note that when it came out, there was a lot of criticism from the press that it looked "bland", but then it became a best seller for BMW. Therefore I believe that the main clientele for the 5 series is after a more conservative, albeit handsome design, which the new G30 looks to be (except for the size of the headlights that, in my opinion look too big).

There will be a newer design language with the future 3series that will be more angular and hopefully more interesting than the current one... It's also because it is targeted to a younger clientele that is looking for something more out there...

[Pinkoboe]

My primary concern with the styling is that BMW has gone so conservative in their post Bangle era that they are not moving the needle forward. If you go back to each generation of the 5, it at least looked different from its predecessor. The F10 was a classic conservative design, but their was no mistaking it for an E60 or an E39.

With the F-car generation, the 3, 5, & 7 series all were conservatively styled, and I for one have a difficult time telling them apart from a distance. There are spotting features you learn after some time, but the overall look is very similar. With the new generation of G-cars, BMW has taken a page from the Audi styling guide and made what appear to be only minimalistic evolutionary changes from the previous models. Put a G12 next to an F01, and it is not obvious to a non BMW fanatic which is the new design (exterior at least). It seems like the G30 and F10 will be similarly similar. So now, not only do all cars of the same generation look similar, but they also look very much like the previous generation as well.

With BMW now being of a mass market producer, they need to make cars that will not offend like the E60 and E65 did. As someone that likes modern design, this is a disappointment to me, but I understand the reality of what BMW is.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1

Oh, like the dismal sales of the new 7er?

Mind you the e60 was best selling, even better than the e39 too. It was controversial, but it drove amazingly well (sans harsh run flat tires), and sold too. People are starting to get bored. They're going to get bored with looking at what looks like almost the same car, and they'll be bored behind the wheel of a car they thought would drive like the once- Ultimate Driving Machine. I've sold my F02 because it was a boaty limo. Inputs were generally responsive, but that was the end of its amazing driving dynamics.

The new E Class embarrasses anything offered from BMW right now sans something like the M2. I can't wait to see how that plays out.

The reviews say the E-Klasse is not the perfect all rounder as it is made out to be. I know in certain key areas the new G30 will outclass the E-Klasse. Its going to be interesting.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1

Oh, like the dismal sales of the new 7er?

Mind you the e60 was best selling, even better than the e39 too. It was controversial, but it drove amazingly well (sans harsh run flat tires), and sold too. People are starting to get bored. They're going to get bored with looking at what looks like almost the same car, and they'll be bored behind the wheel of a car they thought would drive like the once- Ultimate Driving Machine. I've sold my F02 because it was a boaty limo. Inputs were generally responsive, but that was the end of its amazing driving dynamics.

The new E Class embarrasses anything offered from BMW right now sans something like the M2. I can't wait to see how that plays out.

Early sales of the F02 were slow also before the full line kicked in.
since the G11 did not really show up until late winter on the sales sheets. It is performing well overseas in all markets plus the model line is not yet complete. Also the US are having premium manufacturers lose sales to their relevant SUV lines. The US wants SUVs which is why the focus is primarily on SUVs which are outselling all core segments. It is not just BMW that see this.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Progressing along.... I still need to decipher the bumper volume and character lines...

[mjr24]

Why do some people cry about how the new 5 will simply look like the F10? If it's broke, don't fix it. When's the last time you saw the Porsche 911 change styling wise? They all look the same and the subtle changes each generation make it beautiful. Benz SL? Same thing...the 231 looks very much like the 230 (which I believe was the best selling of all time).

Is the new Range that much different than the previous? Not really.

Meanwhile, what car companies have made some drastic changes in the last 10 years? Jaguar I'd say...and all their models suck. Lexus I'd say....and Lexus sucks now versus what it was in the early 2000's. They now look like the Toyota versions of the models.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The F10 is the best selling 5er yet. So it makes absolute sense to not distract from the successful formula of that car. Although it seems nothing has changed...Everything has.

I do not think we will see an exercise in risk like the E60 for a mainstream vehicle ever again. The possibility to do so is probable with BMWi.
But you will never see a radical departure like the E60 from BMW or yet any other manufacturer for a volume vehicle.

The reason the current 3 has conceded to C class is the very conservative view you hold. BMW has made a successful formula in the past of goin radical with design every 2 generations of vehicle type. To stay in the same spot in ever changing world is as risky as stretching the boundaries of design. No risk no gain.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1

Oh, like the dismal sales of the new 7er?

Mind you the e60 was best selling, even better than the e39 too. It was controversial, but it drove amazingly well (sans harsh run flat tires), and sold too. People are starting to get bored. They're going to get bored with looking at what looks like almost the same car, and they'll be bored behind the wheel of a car they thought would drive like the once- Ultimate Driving Machine. I've sold my F02 because it was a boaty limo. Inputs were generally responsive, but that was the end of its amazing driving dynamics.

The new E Class embarrasses anything offered from BMW right now sans something like the M2. I can't wait to see how that plays out.

I have seen the official renderings and it has the presence to challenge E class a design and tech in my humble opinion. Where I agree with you is the interior design where I believe BMW has gone stale in terms of presentation and visual drama. It just needs to feel more special.

[LivingLifeFast LLF]

Not feeling it hope it dont look like that no disrespect to who did this picture

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The reviews say the E-Klasse is not the perfect all rounder as it is made out to be. I know in certain key areas the new G30 will outclass the E-Klasse. Its going to be interesting.

I have read and watched a lot of reviews on the E Klasse, and haven't seen much negative press. Really the only ones that I've seen so far are that rear seat room isn't as commodious as you would expect, and that consumption for the E300 petrol isn't stellar. Other than that people are praising it as a luxury sedan tour de force and a return to the days when Mercedes was a leader in automotive technology.

My only beef / fear is that it might be too luxury oriented for my tastes. But the E43 should be a nice balance of that...on paper anyway.

Where are you reading differently?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by N & M

I have seen the official renderings and it has the presence to challenge E class a design and tech in my humble opinion. Where I agree with you is the interior design where I believe BMW has gone stale in terms of presentation and visual drama. It just needs to feel more special.

Agree. I worry that it's going to be a smaller / decontented 7 series, and that would make me sad. The few times I've sat in the 7, my reaction has been "nicely executed more of the same" and not necessarily "wow". BMW doesn't seem to really moved the game on. Gesture control....in the future I don't doubt it will be amazing but now, doubt I'd use it. Mercedes touch pads on the steering wheel seem like much more of a breakthrough. And BMW's digital instruments seem to be missing out on the opportunity to do more with the expense spent on a full screen. Why limit yourself to traditional gauge shapes with the ring? The new E Klasse and Caddy CTS do it best. If you want to replace the tach with a nav screen? Do it! Or if I don't want to see a giant red tacho in sport, I don't have to!

I will be happy to have to eat these words soon, but somehow I don't think I will have to break out the fork and knife when the car debuts this fall.