[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I think the undercurrent of what the SA was saying is all about warranty claims. That BMW wouldn't cover a warranty repair for the transfer case (only xDrive models have a transfer case, of course) if they can point a finger at the tires.

I have seen that echoed on the forums a fair bit, but I'm running pure OEM so I can't claim to know how painful the process would be warranty wise. I do know I've had BMW be annoying on warranty claims at various points. BMW does seem to "push back" on claims at times.

Not everyone is worried about warranty repairs though so it may be a complete moot point. Others may have dealerships that insulate them from any flack from BMWNA.

YMMV.

That was definitely a sticking point for him. But he also made a point that he thinks it can actually cause a problem.

He says he’s seen it happen multiple times. I’d like to know if those were pure tire switches or guys picking aftermarket wheels with tire sizes different than the factory options available on those cars.

I’m under warranty for another 10 months. So I’ll probably stick with runflats for another round for two reasons: 1) the warranty point is a good one and makes sense 2) if I trade it before Feb, it can still be certified and sold as such and maybe I’ll get a little more for it if it has a new set of factory OEM spec tires on it. Won’t hurt, at least.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Ignorance is bliss... When I had my F30 I had no such information so I just switched to non-RFTs and enjoyed them with no issues for 10s of thousands of miles through 130k+ miles on the odo when I sold the car.

When you state that star marked tires are more expensive, do you mean they're more expensive for the exact same tire without the star or are you comparing them to non-RFTs, which would be cheaper anyway.

He knows what he’s doing. He rather bait us (“hook, line and sinker”) and stir the pot out of spite rather than provide accurate information and acknowledge they aren’t more expensive.

He won’t reply with anything useful other than a snarky remark. He’s a pussy.

[TEF]

I suspect the reason that BMW pushes things like little stars on tires is a business decision that has virtually nothing to do with the life of one's driveline. Sure it makes sense that x-drive requires an all-square setup since the tires of different diameters would seriously stress a transfer case, but the vehicle has no way of knowing that its tires lack a star. On the other hand, these little stars, typically available only at dealers, ensure an aftermarket income since they are often the only game in town. Moreover, BMW's agreement with a few tire companies ensures favorable prices for BMW at the manufacturing level. And of course, the emphasis on run-flats provides BMW the logical rationale for not providing spares and tools that would (slightly) affect the company's profit margin.

For example, Toyota continues to offer spares and has no problems selling cars without run flats. Additionally, Toyota doesn't need to engage in some baseless narrative that insist that one buy only certain replacement tires.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by TEF

I suspect the reason that BMW pushes things like little stars on tires is a business decision that has virtually nothing to do with the life of one's driveline. Sure it makes sense that x-drive requires an all-square setup since the tires of different diameters would seriously stress a transfer case, but the vehicle has no way of knowing that its tires lack a star. On the other hand, these little stars, typically available only at dealers, ensure an aftermarket income since they are often the only game in town. Moreover, BMW's agreement with a few tire companies ensures favorable prices for BMW at the manufacturing level. And of course, the emphasis on run-flats provides BMW the logical rationale for not providing spares and tools that would (slightly) affect the company's profit margin.

For example, Toyota continues to offer spares and has no problems selling cars without run flats. Additionally, Toyota doesn't need to engage in some baseless narrative that insist that one buy only certain replacement tires.

No one is saying that the star makes them better for idrive technology. They are in fact available outside the dealer and they don’t cost more than the same tire without the star. It’s not like they are BMW branded tires that the dealer only sells. In my case they are Michelin Super Sports. A tire I prefer to run in general.

Now what the star means is up for debate. I could give a shit as it’s the same price and it’s the Michelin I want. There are a few articles out there on what goes into earning the star.

What’s wrong is people thinking it’s a dealer money maker with an up charge and you have to go to the dealer to get them.

All car manufacturers have deals with tire manufacturers going into production. Nothing new here. Same deal they have with glass manufacturers and head and taillight manufacturers. Are they not supposed to keep costs down and make money?

We could miserize about 1,000 things that go into making a car if we wanted to.

[TEF]

The idea of a dealer (or anyone else) making money is not the issue. It's the fact that Service Adviser will knowingly lie about what tires a customer might buy. Many customers are not the car savvy folks, but often individuals that wouldn't think to question their dealer's advice. As for your fondness of Michelins, why not listen to your dealer and replace the OE runflats with more of the same? Probably because you're lucky enough to know better.

[ezaircon4jc]

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by TEF

The idea of a dealer (or anyone else) making money is not the issue. It's the fact that Service Adviser will knowingly lie about what tires a customer might buy. Many customers are not the car savvy folks, but often individuals that wouldn't think to question their dealer's advice. As for your fondness of Michelins, why not listen to your dealer and replace the OE runflats with more of the same? Probably because you're lucky enough to know better.

That’s a pretty general broad swipe statement about service advisors. Sounds like you’ve had some bad experiences.

My Michelin’s are the OEM tire. They aren’t runflats.

[Alscoob]

IMO and it is only my opinion...BMW will use any available excuse to get out of an expensive warranty claim, they therefore make it widely known that a change from OEM designed and supplied tyres on a vehicle could impact on the drivetrain of x-drive vehicles. So when you turn up with a transfer case issue they simply say, wrong tyres mate that caused the issue.... goodbye!

From my logic you can't tell me that they produce a different x-drive system for different cars they produce? Okay they may have different tweaks and software in some (M2,3,4,5 cars) but the base mechanicals of the 4wd system must surely be the same?

So, discounting full fat M's, you could some years ago here in the UK order your M140i with non runflats from new, there were also others but I can't remember which so will only use that example You can't tell me that they would have a different transmission installed on the production line because you ordered go flats?

I also looked at some second hand wheels the other day that came off a new M240i Gxx series They were 8.5"x19" fronts & 9.5"x 19" rears but the standard tyre size was Front 245x35x19 and Rear 255x35x19 which puts them just the wrong side of the 1% tollerance and they were PS4S go flats.
That car with more power is going to, by the nature of what it is, put more stress on components potentially resulting in earlier x-drive failings if the tyre issues are to be believed, kind of counter intuitive of BMW to produce such a car then??

In the current trend of building a car with everything already in it, then you paying to switch options on via a subscription, including a power upgrade, it kind of reinforces the fact that multiple use components across various platforms will be used therefore, if they will supply platform 1car 'X' with go flats & platform 1 car 'Y' with run flats the tyres can't be the issue.

To substantiate my thoughts further. Goodyear F1 asymmetric tyres for BMW 5er's are RFT * but also designated MO for Mercedes, you can't tell me that the 4wd systems of both manufacturers are the same?

Personally I have found the SA's in the dealership about as much use as a chocolate tea pot, they are fine if there is a book that tells them the answer but outside of that they are hopeless. I have asked specifics about tyre differences and the specifications but they can't give any supporting technical data to substantiate the 1% tollerance question.

I suspect that their base level advice is to stop someone putting Chinese LinLong rubber on the front and some other Chinese different rubber on the rear, which will be way out of tollerence and thus highly likely cause issues, but if you use * rated go flats, that's hardly likely to be in the same boat.

I'm not a particularly electronic tech savvy person but did read somewhere that in ID 7 & above there is an option in the tyre settings for 'individual' and if you put your individual rear tyre size in and drive off it will disconnect the 4wd system and calculate something to measure the fronts, if there is an issue you would like to think it would flag it up straight off and not wait until the transfer case disintergrates!

As for me I'm off for some premium brand go flats and likey * rated...Happy motoring

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Alscoob

IMO and it is only my opinion...BMW will use any available excuse to get out of an expensive warranty claim, they therefore make it widely known that a change from OEM designed and supplied tyres on a vehicle could impact on the drivetrain of x-drive vehicles. So when you turn up with a transfer case issue they simply say, wrong tyres mate that caused the issue.... goodbye!

From my logic you can't tell me that they produce a different x-drive system for different cars they produce? Okay they may have different tweaks and software in some (M2,3,4,5 cars) but the base mechanicals of the 4wd system must surely be the same?

So, discounting full fat M's, you could some years ago here in the UK order your M140i with non runflats from new, there were also others but I can't remember which so will only use that example You can't tell me that they would have a different transmission installed on the production line because you ordered go flats?

I also looked at some second hand wheels the other day that came off a new M240i Gxx series They were 8.5"x19" fronts & 9.5"x 19" rears but the standard tyre size was Front 245x35x19 and Rear 255x35x19 which puts them just the wrong side of the 1% tollerance and they were PS4S go flats.
That car with more power is going to, by the nature of what it is, put more stress on components potentially resulting in earlier x-drive failings if the tyre issues are to be believed, kind of counter intuitive of BMW to produce such a car then??

In the current trend of building a car with everything already in it, then you paying to [...]

I’d be curious to know how many cases there are out there with x drive/ differential issues where BMW denied the warranty because you weren’t running OEM tires. Is this commonplace or just conjecture?

I’m pretty confident I could run another reputable brand of the OEM size and if I had an issue, my dealer wouldn’t use it against me.

Just wonder if we are bitching about something that really isn’t commonplace. I personally think we are talking about aftermarket wheels with oversized from spec tires. I don’t blame them for that. People run snows all the time and use the dealer to mount them every year. I used to, never got a warning.

[Joe-BMW33]

Here is a positive dealer story something that could easily have been dismissed and denied warranty coverage. Another member here had Dinan springs and bump stop installed at a local shop (not a dealer). They developed rear suspension issues, a noticeable clunk going over bumps. He exhausted remediation with installer and I sent him to my SA/dealer. The car was in there for two weeks troubleshooting it. They removed the Dinan springs, swapped out components in the rear suspension, troubleshot it for weeks. At the end of the day, they ended up warranting all the work and fixes. How easy would it have been for them to blame it on aftermarket springs and dismissed it?

IDK, I've owned BMW's for the last 30 years and my experience isn't the dealer looking for ways to get out of footing the bill. As long as BMW NA pays, and they have a lot to do with that in terms of how they present the issue and the fix, they want the work. They also want you to come back and buy more BMW's, not leave a sour taste in your mouth.

My $.02 and my experiences.

[Alscoob]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Is this commonplace or just conjecture?

I suspect the latter.

Was only putting my 2 cents worth in the mix as I can't believe something that has been used for many years can be so fragile and reliant on such specifics of RFT or other.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Alscoob

I suspect the latter.

Was only putting my 2 cents worth in the mix as I can't believe something that has been used for many years can be so fragile and reliant on such specifics of RFT or other.

Understood, wasn't really asking you, more thinking out loud.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Here is a positive dealer story something that could easily have been dismissed and denied warranty coverage. Another member here had Dinan springs and bump stop installed at a local shop (not a dealer). They developed rear suspension issues, a noticeable clunk going over bumps. He exhausted remediation with installer and I sent him to my SA/dealer. The car was in there for two weeks troubleshooting it. They removed the Dinan springs, swapped out components in the rear suspension, troubleshot it for weeks. At the end of the day, they ended up warranting all the work and fixes. How easy would it have been for them to blame it on aftermarket springs and dismissed it?

IDK, I've owned BMW's for the last 30 years and my experience isn't the dealer looking for ways to get out of footing the bill. As long as BMW NA pays, and they have a lot to do with that in terms of how they present the issue and the fix, they want the work. They also want you to come back and buy more BMW's, not leave a sour taste in your mouth.

My $.02 and my experiences.

As with all things it can vary by area, dealership, and probably how much you’ve cultivated a relationship with a specific SA…

I had to fight with my local dealership due to a rattle in my door needing to be repaired under warranty. They were initially denying to fix it under warranty due to the door being “improperly repaired” previously. The repair they cited as improper was a separate dealership in the area I moved from.

All warranty work shows up in the BMW system so it shouldn’t have even been a fight…

I’d imagine they would be even more annoying if third party stuff was actually installed.

Glad you have a good dealership experience, but I wouldn’t paint it as universal.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

As with all things it can vary by area, dealership, and probably how much you’ve cultivated a relationship with a specific SA…

I had to fight with my local dealership due to a rattle in my door needing to be repaired under warranty. They were initially denying to fix it under warranty due to the door being “improperly repaired” previously. The repair they cited as improper was a separate dealership in the area I moved from.

All warranty work shows up in the BMW system so it shouldn’t have even been a fight…

I’d imagine they would be even more annoying if third party stuff was actually installed.

Glad you have a good dealership experience, but I wouldn’t paint it as universal.

Understood and not trying to paint a universal picture. I understand there is a reason why people call them the Stealer. YMMV.

[snowbimmer]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I don’t either. I just read a post from a guy that’s got two years and 36,000 miles on an M850. He didn’t just switch the tires but switched the wheels and tires to a wider size, front and back. And no problem. I just don’t see how switching to the same exact size as factory can make a difference. But he SWEARS he has seen transfer cases fail within thousands of miles of people swapping to non runflat tires. He didn’t even say they wouldn’t do it. He just strongly recommended not doing it. And when he referred to BMW not covering a claim it was more corporate and not at the dealer level, which I do believe. I just don’t see why it would cause an issue in the first place.

Just noodling through the G30 Forums today - haven't been here much since I got out of my M550 in 2019. Found this thread. Yeah, that's me. A little clarification: My car came with 20" OEM runflat Pirellis. The first 5,000 miles of it's life were on a 19" set of snow tires. Then I went back to my 20" summer runflats for 11,000 miles. I have 5,000 miles over the last two winters on Michelin Alpin4 non-runflats on the 20"OEM wheels. My 20" aftermarket Vossen set of wheels allowed me to increase the fronts from 245 to 255 and the rears from 275 to 295. I have 10,000 miles in Michelin PS4 non-runflats and 6,000 miles in Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season non-runflats. So, only 16k out of 36k in a non-OEM situation. (And a lot of tires in my basement crawl space)

Originally Posted by NGT2

I don’t either. I just read a post from a guy that’s got two years and 36,000 miles on an M850. He didn’t just switch the tires but switched the wheels and tires to a wider size, front and back. And no problem. I just don’t see how switching to the same exact size as factory can make a difference. But he SWEARS he has seen transfer cases fail within thousands of miles of people swapping to non runflat tires. He didn’t even say they wouldn’t do it. He just strongly recommended not doing it. And when he referred to BMW not covering a claim it was more corporate and not at the dealer level, which I do believe. I just don’t see why it would cause an issue in the first place.

I believe in the back half of your statement you are referencing your SA, because I never said any of this part. Although I didn't have this conversation with my SA, we did go round and round about putting a higher profile tire on my M850, which has a very low profile OEM tire. One notch higher would put it on par with the M8 and the Alpina B8 (which is just a fancy M850). The dealership was adamant about not changing, as was my performance shop. My tire shop said it would be OK. Several forum members did it with their M850s with no ill-effects. Whaddaya gonna do?

The other line of concern on here is the notion of keeping front and rear wheels within 1% of the diameters to not eff up the transfer case. My M5s were 1.01% different from front to back on OEM 20" wheels. The M5 OEM winter wheel set was on 19" wheels and was 2.3% different from front to back. I never had any problems on two M5s over 43,000 total miles. And, the winters were THEIR recommended set.

There might be more leeway than they are letting on.

But not swapping runflats to non-runflats? Yeah, that seems a bit suspect.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by snowbimmer

Just noodling through the G30 Forums today - haven't been here much since I got out of my M550 in 2019. Found this thread. Yeah, that's me. A little clarification: My car came with 20" OEM runflat Pirellis. The first 5,000 miles of it's life were on a 19" set of snow tires. Then I went back to my 20" summer runflats for 11,000 miles. I have 5,000 miles over the last two winters on Michelin Alpin4 non-runflats on the 20"OEM wheels. My 20" aftermarket Vossen set of wheels allowed me to increase the fronts from 245 to 255 and the rears from 275 to 295. I have 10,000 miles in Michelin PS4 non-runflats and 6,000 miles in Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season non-runflats. So, only 16k out of 36k in a non-OEM situation. (And a lot of tires in my basement crawl space)





I believe in the back half of your statement you are referencing your SA, because I never said any of this part. Although I didn't have this conversation with my SA, we did go round and round about putting a higher profile tire on my M850, which has a very low profile OEM tire. One notch higher would put it on par with the M8 and the Alpina B8 (which is just a fancy M850). The dealership was adamant about not changing, as was my performance shop. My tire shop said it would be OK. Several forum members did it with their M850s with no ill-effects. Whaddaya gonna do?

The other line of concern on here is the notion of keeping front and rear wheels within 1% of the diameters to not eff up the transfer case. My M5s were 1.01% different from front to back on OEM 20" wheels. The M5 OEM winter wheel set was on 19" wheels and was 2.3% different from front to back. I never had any problems on two M5s over 43,000 total miles. And, the winters were THEIR recommended set.

There might be more leeway than they are letting on.

But not swapping runflats to non-runflats? Yeah, that seems a bit suspect.

Putting the car on the market with the restrictions some have suggested would be corporate suicide.

The RFT vs non-RFT point was clearly debunked, and the 1% diameter point is just as silly. Were it not, then this would mean that a bit excessive wear from something as simple as regular hard accelleration that engages one axle more than the other would destroy your drivetrain.

Some of the fear porn and marketing stuff that gets passed on here is mind-bogglingly silly. It's rooted almost entirely in fear and emotion.