[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

To those who yet didn’t get this.
If you allow government to cross boundaries in extraordinary situations government will create those situations in order to act that way.

OK, this is probably true

But in this particular case, citizens and car manufacturers have created this situation of 40,000+ deaths annually (most of them preventable). So this situation exists now, without the government intervening, yet...intervention that may require limiting the maximum speed of a road car (and maybe even limiting the max acceleration too). We have the technology today to prevent this on public roads, though allowing it for race and track cars. We have decided not to, no government intervention, we're all "free" to break the law whenever we want, as long as we don't get caught.

Many cars can travel 3 times the speed limit, and very few people track their cars. Is this not a recipe for disaster? Do we expect humans to simply control themselves? Well, the answer to that is "yes".

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Remember that every government service, every offer of government - financed security, is paid for in the loss of personal freedom... In the days to come, whenever a voice is raised telling you to let the government do it, analyze very carefully to see whether the suggested service is worth the personal freedom which you must forgo in return for such service.
Ronald Reagan

Is saving American lives worth the effort since we and car manufacturers alike can't seem to control ourselves?

I'm sure all of this in this BMW forum would say, "No, my personal freedom to enjoy my car as I wish is not worthy any government regulation. Hec, why do we have speed limits at all???"

But that's why this can't solely be about us, the enthusiasts, a small fraction of society. Though we can voice our opinions and vote like everyone else.

Originally Posted by ///d

Well, if we want to keep things in perspective, then you need to get percentages of autopilot crashes per number of vehicles with autopilot and compare it to total numbers of drivers in the US over the years. But I was not hating on Tesla, I was simply stating that, in general, the tech required for this is not consistent or accurate enough.

Indeed, it's not ready today. But it will be sooner than later. So when it is ready, and the autopilot is likely safer than humans, on average, given the number of distracted drivers, poor drivers, under-the-influence drivers, and fatigued drivers, are we ready to hand over the keys to a computer?

Nope, even if it could save lives.

...which is why you can't always trust the judgment of humans (on and off the road - pun intended )

Also, regarding autopilot, an automated system will always fail at some point. Electronics wear out, sensors fail, bugs happen. There is no way around that. Yes accidents occur and looking at the numbers can be unsettling, but how many accidents have been avoided BECAUSE there is a human at the wheel during an unexpected situation and was able to intervene? It's not always human error that causes a wreck.

Sure, sometimes mechanical or electrical parts fail and then a tragic accident occurs.

But it's safe to say that most accidents are human error for a variety of reasons compared to part failures.

According to this site, the average number of accidents and deaths for ALL vehicles has remained relatively unchanged since 1975, even with the increase in number of vehicles and drivers over the years. In fact, some stats have decreased even tho the numbers of people on the roads have significantly increased.

It's still 40,000+ annually. Does that number by itself not raise an eyebrow?

Saving lives or not, it comes down to human choice, and by allowing the government to take human choice away and regulate everything in the name of "safety" it will only lead to society eventually having no human choice at all. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile. History has proven this time and time again.

Sure, it's all a "slippery slope".

And forget the government making this decision, what if society decides that enough is enough? What if Americans decide that road cars having the ability to accelerate in less than 4 seconds and able to travel at even double the posted speed limit is simply too dangerous for society as a whole....because too many of us (and I'm looking in the mirror too) can't control ourselves. And this creates danger on the road for others.

If this was about individuals driving dangerously and simply killing themselves, then yes, we should each have that freedom. But we collectively must share the road with fellow humans so we may need to collectively sacrifice some of our personal freedoms for the good of society (hence why have speed limits in the first place).

Instead of requiring it, make it an option. Make it an incentive for a cheaper buying price, lower interest rate, or insurance, etc.

Well, slower cars are often less expensive and receive lower insurance rates. So individual make these decisions today, but they still must share the road with the rest of us who made different decisions. Driving on public roads are a shared experience.

If more car enthusiasts tracked their cars to enjoy them, this could be less of an issue. But most enthusiasts don't so...

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

This is very interesting. So roads already have speed limits, why does the (no limits) crowd have a problem with future cars limited to let’s say 100mph on *public* highways?

If someone blows past your home (15-25mph limit) doing 100+ would you have a problem or give the guy a thumbs up?

Bottom line is the car crowd doesn’t want intervention when they decide to F around on public roads for fun going well past the posted speed limits.

If you don’t excessively speed or F around on public roads, this is a NON issue.

Race tracks are great places to run your cars hard and fast but it’s a lot easier to take it out on backroads and do 3-4x the limit for kicks.

Exactly.

And since we do speed and F around on public roads and can't contain ourselves, speed limits and driving laws be damned, what do we do? Just put our heads in the sand?

Or ask every state to hire more police and install more cameras to catch us all?

Or do we simply use the technology available today to curb our behavior on public roads by limiting the ability of cars? Do we have the "right" to have the ability to drive dangerously on public roads?

Originally Posted by ///d

It honestly has nothing to do with whether or not roads already have speed limits or if we already follow those limits, it's about the gubberment once again trying to mandate something and take more control.

And the gubberment is already trying to find ways to stop racing in many places, this would be a sure fire way to slowly kill the racing industry.

The government should have some say over the safety on public roads since driving is a shared experience. The level of their oversight is worth debating. With 40,000+ deaths/year, some would say that they're not doing enough.

We, in this forum, would likely say the government is doing too much. Of course that's not surprising given where we're having this discussion.



Private raceways and tracks can set whatever rules they want. And cars being driven on private raceways/tracks should be able to do whatever they want, within the rules of the track.