[Lucian009]

Hey guys,

I own 2 older machines (an e92 and an e61) and I'm contemplating adding a newer one within a year or so. I'm on a modest budget so I'm looking at pre-owned >2017. Under consideration are, all xdrive: 540i, m550i, and the 750i (I would love to include the 840i and the m850i, but they'd be clearly out of my range).

They're all luxurious and comfortable and stable at high speeds (which I may risk sometimes). After that, accel. and reliability are my top criteria. I hear of some coolant issues, perhaps more so for the 4.4L. I don't know if the more features on the 750i would come with more issues but, as long as they don't compromise drive-ability, I could just live with them.
I'm leaning toward the m550i, if I could afford a lower mileage one.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

Hey guys,

I own 2 older machines (an e92 and an e61) and I'm contemplating adding a newer one within a year or so. I'm on a modest budget so I'm looking at pre-owned >2017. Under consideration are, all xdrive: 540i, m550i, and the 750i (I would love to include the 840i and the m850i, but they'd be clearly out of my range).

They're all luxurious and comfortable and stable at high speeds (which I may risk sometimes). After that, accel. and reliability are my top criteria. I hear of some coolant issues, perhaps more so for the 4.4L. I don't know if the more features on the 750i would come with more issues but, as long as they don't compromise drive-ability, I could just live with them.
I'm leaning toward the m550i, if I could afford a lower mileage one.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Depends on what you want. If you want a comfortable cruiser, get the 750 or the 550. They will be luxurious and powerful. They will not offer much in the way of dynamics or driving pleasure though, as the V8 up front creates too much understeer for the amount of tire present (particularly in the 550, which is very poorly balanced).

The 40is will all offer just as about as much luxury, but you will have a more balanced vehicle. Reliability also goes to the 40i models, without question. The B58 is Toyota level in this department.

[Thecastle]

I've owned 8 BMW's and I can say that modern BMWs have gotten more reliable over the years. If reliability is a top concern, I would skip the 7 series, not because its a bad car. But mostly it has the most features and the most potential for a failure (more complexity). My service advisor also says its not BMWs most reliable. Also its a big car and won't fit in some garages, I know I've had one as a loaner. I personally like them, they have a great back seat, really depreciate (cheap 2nd hand), and are the ultimate wafting machine. Like the gimicks. Personally I'd go big and get the last of the V12's and grab a 760..... But that's not cost-efficent.

I've owned several > 100K mile V8 BMWs and if well cared for they can be pretty reliable (anything after the N63TU era). I'm currently driving my 4th.

For you I'd recommend a 540i. Great performance, good reliability (we own a 2020 B58 M340i). But the 540i is not really a ton of fun to drive. I personally recommend the DHP package for the active anti-roll bars in the 5 series. Its a must have in the X5s, as it really reduces lean and helps hide the weight of the cars.

Make sure its a 1 owner, clean title, no accident car with full service records from a BMW dealer. 2 owner max. No branded titles. If its older than 3 years old and > than 50K miles (not under warranty), I would highly consider an indy mechanic checking it out.

[Gautam]

If you’re on a modest budget, no v8’s, and no 7 series. Reliability isn’t the issue, but maintenance costs are.

[Lucian009]

Originally Posted by Neusser

the V8 up front creates too much understeer for the amount of tire present (particularly in the 550, which is very poorly balanced).
The 40is will all offer just as about as much luxury, but you will have a more balanced vehicle. Reliability also goes to the 40i models, without question. The B58 is Toyota level in this department.

Thank you. That sounds like a definitive opinion. I wouldn't have thought to hear that the m550i is "very poorly balanced", and it's food for thought. I don't doubt that the v8 is more prone to issues than the i6, but I thought that they could be few and contained, with proper driving and maintenance. Also, BMW has been doing v8's forever - how unsorted can they be? Other than the apparent issue of the coolant leak/spill into the injectors, are there particular issues to be aware of?

[Lucian009]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Personally I'd go big and get the last of the V12's and grab a 760..... But that's not cost-efficent.

I think that's safe to say! Now, if I had time at my hands and a fully fitted home garage, I could entertain that thought.

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I've owned several > 100K mile V8 BMWs and if well cared for they can be pretty reliable (anything after the N63TU era). I'm currently driving my 4th.

Would you mind sharing a bit more here, please? Like, what are the major costs? (Such as, for the older i6 N54 engines, the several gaskets, fuel and water pumps, turbos, etc.)

Originally Posted by Thecastle

For you I'd recommend a 540i. Great performance, good reliability (we own a 2020 B58 M340i). But the 540i is not really a ton of fun to drive.

Hmm... so neither the 540 nor the 550 are great drivers for you guys. That comes against what it's said by edmunds, for example, and it's quite unexpected to hear.
But yes, the 540 was my initial inclination. Then I got into some silly straight line racing (I know, lame, but I sort of got picked on) which I barely came ahead of with my old 5, and this thought of top accel took hold in my mind. The 550 has nearly 1 second over the 540, plus more mid-range power I guess, and it essentially matches model-S. Chances are 60-40 that I'll come back to my senses and get a 540, though, contingent on knowing more about the 550 reliability.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

Thank you. That sounds like a definitive opinion. I wouldn't have thought to hear that the m550i is "very poorly balanced", and it's food for thought. I don't doubt that the v8 is more prone to issues than the i6, but I thought that they could be few and contained, with proper driving and maintenance. Also, BMW has been doing v8's forever - how unsorted can they be? Other than the apparent issue of the coolant leak/spill into the injectors, are there particular issues to be aware of?

550 is 55/45 in weight distribution. More or less the point of no return for understeer (particularly with AWD!), unless significant measures are undertaken to try and bring some neutrality back as the limits of grip are reached (see the M5 front axle, tires, geo, and uprated suspension).

The 540 is much better in this regard. My Touring is 50/50 and it feels it; pivots wonderfully around the driver, despite the G30/31's silly length and weight (if you load it up with gadgets).

The thing to remember is that this is an executive car that can shift. The 540 is balanced, quite rapid, and very comfortable. It does everything for the enthusiast who needs a do-it-all car. It will never be a sports car, but that is obvious, as it is simply too large and heavy. The chassis balance and drivetrain (ZF with the I6) are really sublime though.

[Thecastle]

My long run experience with an F10 550i, is here. https://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2166017

It wasn't cheap, but not terribly expensive as cars go. I had it paid off, so my only cost was repairs/maintenance. It got more expensive as the years increased. I know the last two years have been around 6K in repairs, or $250 a month. It was generally very reliable. a lot in the last 2 years was the $3500 for a new LED headlight. Both my Ram 3500 and Ford F-450 have been much more expensive over the same time period. Ram maintenance is $$$$$$$

I race too. I do open road races. I've raced my 550i when I owned it https://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1788509 Yup its heavy, but when you really, really push it is was a BMW underneath the softness.

Which is one of the reasons I went M550i, with DHP. Plus I like the room for a helmet. If you feel the need for speed, the 5 series isn't your 1st choice. But if you want a luxury high speed crusier, its hard to beat. That M550i has some sweet V8 noise (x5m was better), and I'm an engine guy so I appreciate it.

[Warp Ten]

I have been very happy with my 2019 540xi, bought new and now with (only) 25,000 miles. No significant issues. I also owned a 2010 535xi for nine years with no significant issues. Sold it to a local friend who still has it. the 540 has plenty of power and the B58 engines are generally very reliable. --Bob

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

Thank you. That sounds like a definitive opinion. I wouldn't have thought to hear that the m550i is "very poorly balanced", and it's food for thought. I don't doubt that the v8 is more prone to issues than the i6, but I thought that they could be few and contained, with proper driving and maintenance. Also, BMW has been doing v8's forever - how unsorted can they be? Other than the apparent issue of the coolant leak/spill into the injectors, are there particular issues to be aware of?

The M550 is NOT poorly balanced and you are surprised to hear it because no one, especially people that own it, says that. He does not own one and habitually takes every opportunity to post this understeer imbalance bullshit. He is a known troll around here. I am sorry you came hear and had to experience it. He needs to rationalize his 540 wagon.

Now as other have said, the V8 cars are going to be more to maintain, but reliability is not an issue any more so than a 540. The M550 will cost more for brakes and oil service, but that's about it. The TU3 M550 suffers from the coolant expansion tank blowing because of where it is placed and can take out injectors when it blows. This has not been addressed, but I think it will be someday. They addressed it on the M5.

The B58 and TU2/3 all suffer from coolant issues. The TU2 coolant issues have been addressed with upgraded lines. So if you are looking at a 2018 or 2019 M550, make sure that has been done. It is not a warranty item. This was literally the only issue my car has been in the shop for in 5 years.

If you can swing the M550 and like to accelerate, you will have buyers remorse getting a 540. It is a beast and handles extremely well for a car it's size, but it will not corner like an M3 or 911.

I had 5 seven series in a row, all under warranty, but thank god they were. A lot of gadgets and tech to break. They lose value like an overweight whore because of this.

Don't rule out the 8-series (M850) as being more expensive. Unfortunately, they have been a slow seller and a loser for BMW and year for year and mile for mile, they care cheaper than the M550. But know those dynamics going in if you are looking to sell it in three years or so, it will be worth a lot less than you pay now.

[Lucian009]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

If you feel the need for speed, the 5 series isn't your 1st choice. But if you want a luxury high speed crusier, its hard to beat. That M550i has some sweet V8 noise (x5m was better), and I'm an engine guy so I appreciate it.

Thanks. I replied in a combined post, below. Just curious, what would your choice then be for a speed, luxury/comfort, reliability, and understatement?

[Lucian009]

Originally Posted by Neusser

550 is 55/45 in weight distribution. More or less the point of no return for understeer

Thanks, I followed up, below.

[Lucian009]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

They lose value like an overweight whore because of this.

Lol. I'm not sure I envy your experience there.
I followed up in my post below.

[Lucian009]

This is all helpful, though there seems to be a debate about 550 understeer. I hear you Neusser. Afterall, the 550 is like a 540 with 6 bags of concrete on the hood (350lbs extra, presumably most in front). But I can't buy the idea that BMW engineers would not take care of that. It must drive a bit different than the 540 for sure, but I'm inclined toward Joe's comments and think that understeer is not present. It's just a different steer, probably. (And, if I want a nimble drive on twisty backroads - not many where I live in the US - I can still use my E92.) Having said that, my senses say that, overall, the 540 is the awesome car to get.

But... I need to be honest and admit that the 550's different power category and the <4s accel put a spell on and could bend my rational thoughts. Given that they're all equally luxurious, my only criteria here is reliability. I can deal with purchase cost, I can deal with marginally higher maintenance costs (I can also live with non-essential gadgets breaking in a 750), but I can't deal with being stranded for breakdowns and with costly repairs.

This is where Castle says $3500 for a 550 headlight... Meanwhile, I did also read your linked post where you don't appear to list a lot of issues, although you owned a slightly different engine setup (2016 vs 2018). Joe says 550 SAME RELIABLE as 540. It's not a very big deal but it's unclear whether the expansion tank and injector protection issue has a mitigation (perhaps just underfill a little?). I read about the 540 coolant loss/evaporation and it didn't seem like a significant issue.
Is there anything on the 750, other than non-essential gadgets, to make it less reliable than the 550? Out of the 550-750-850 choice, the 750 seems to be the least expensive to buy.

I'll just have to get way more educated about reliability here. As I said, I'm drawn to the power but I'm very anxious not to end up with a money pit and highway strander. I remain 51/49 split between the 540 and a '50, and any extra wisdom and experience would always help.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

This is all helpful, though there seems to be a debate about 550 understeer. I hear you Neusser. Afterall, the 550 is like a 540 with 6 bags of concrete on the hood (350lbs extra, presumably most in front). But I can't buy the idea that BMW engineers would not take care of that. It must drive a bit different than the 540 for sure, but I'm inclined toward Joe's comments and think that understeer is not present. It's just a different steer, probably. (And, if I want a nimble drive on twisty backroads - not many where I live in the US - I can still use my E92.) Having said that, my senses say that, overall, the 540 is the awesome car to get.

But... I need to be honest and admit that the 550's different power category and the <4s accel put a spell on and could bend my rational thoughts. Given that they're all equally luxurious, my only criteria here is reliability. I can deal with purchase cost, I can deal with marginally higher maintenance costs (I can also live with non-essential gadgets breaking in a 750), but I can't deal with being stranded for breakdowns and with costly repairs.

This is where Castle says $3500 for a 550 headlight... Meanwhile, I did also read your linked post where you don't appear to list a lot of issues, although you owned a slightly different engine setup (2016 vs 2018). Joe says 550 SAME RELIABLE as 540. It's not a very big deal but it's unclear whether the expansion tank and injector protection issue has a mitigation (perhaps just underfill a little?). I read about the 540 coolant loss/evaporation and it didn't seem like a significant issue.
Is there anything on the 750, other than non-essential gadgets, to make it less reliable than the 550? Out of the 550-750-850 choice, the 750 seems to be the least expensive to buy.

I'll just have to get way more educated about reliability here. As I said, I'm drawn to the power but I'm very anxious not to end up with a money pit and highway strander. I remain 51/49 split between the 540 and a '50, and any extra wisdom and experience would always help.

You summed everything up well. Here's additional perspective and info on my maintenance/repair experience with my M550i:

My M550i with DHP and IAS corners REALLY well and feels like a smaller, more nimble car that it actually is, so I do trust that the BMW engineers are not the knuckleheads that some think they are. As you said, you have an E92 for the mountain-carving stuff. The 5 series of any config is just not going to cut it in that regard, no matter how you slice it. So that leaves sheer power and acceleration; the M550i wins hands down in that department. It is just an outstanding all-rounder as long as you don't expect it to handle like a 911, which you obviously don't.

Coming to reliability, my car has 57K miles on the odo and has suffered the coolant tank leak (replaced under the manufacturer's warranty), and a failed LPFP (also replaced under the manufacturer's under warranty). Recently, there was a coolant hose leak outside of factory warranty and not covered by my EW (I hear most EWs don't cover hoses), so that cost me $1100, most of it labor to get into the densely packed engine bay to fit the $100 hose. Other than that, just routine maintenance. I would say it has been very reliable thus far outside of the known coolant related issues. I have the Route 66 EW for 7 years/120K miles that I bought in 2023, so I can drive this car with peace of mind until 2030.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

This is all helpful, though there seems to be a debate about 550 understeer. I hear you Neusser. Afterall, the 550 is like a 540 with 6 bags of concrete on the hood (350lbs extra, presumably most in front). But I can't buy the idea that BMW engineers would not take care of that. It must drive a bit different than the 540 for sure, but I'm inclined toward Joe's comments and think that understeer is not present. It's just a different steer, probably. (And, if I want a nimble drive on twisty backroads - not many where I live in the US - I can still use my E92.) Having said that, my senses say that, overall, the 540 is the awesome car to get.

But... I need to be honest and admit that the 550's different power category and the <4s accel put a spell on and could bend my rational thoughts. Given that they're all equally luxurious, my only criteria here is reliability. I can deal with purchase cost, I can deal with marginally higher maintenance costs (I can also live with non-essential gadgets breaking in a 750), but I can't deal with being stranded for breakdowns and with costly repairs.

This is where Castle says $3500 for a 550 headlight... Meanwhile, I did also read your linked post where you don't appear to list a lot of issues, although you owned a slightly different engine setup (2016 vs 2018). Joe says 550 SAME RELIABLE as 540. It's not a very big deal but it's unclear whether the expansion tank and injector protection issue has a mitigation (perhaps just underfill a little?). I read about the 540 coolant loss/evaporation and it didn't seem like a significant issue.
Is there anything on the 750, other than non-essential gadgets, to make it less reliable than the 550? Out of the 550-750-850 choice, the 750 seems to be the least expensive to buy.

I'll just have to get way more educated about reliability here. As I said, I'm drawn to the power but I'm very anxious not to end up with a money pit and highway strander. I remain 51/49 split between the 540 and a '50, and any extra wisdom and experience would always help.

I think you get the jist of it and you really can't go wrong with either the 540 or M550. You have been around the block and know what comes with owning a BMW.

I had an F10 before this and recently let my E39 go which was probably the last BMW 5-series "drivers car". The G30 5-series is now about the same size as my last 7-series E65. It's just simple physics in terms of handling capability. My E39 at 22 years old was more planted when cornering. Different cars, different weights and different Pro's and Con's. But the G30 is right up there on the top 5 series lists.

I am biased, but after 30 years of owning BMW's, I avoid the chance of having buyers remorse like the plague. Been there, done that. Buy a lesser model (I use lesser loosely) and wished I had the next step up. It gets expensive trading in a car less than a year of having it. I have the B58 in my X5 and it is a smooth powerplant with solid pull. But the N63TU2/3 in the M550 is just on another level. 3.6-3.8 seconds to 60 is a rush and you said you like acceleration. I personally enjoy the pull from zero more than going 120.

There are a lot of former 540 owners here that moved up to the M550 and there are a bunch that wish they had it and probably get sick of us M550 guys talking about how fast it is.

[Chappers 71]

If your not concerned about having a BMW warranty a 540i with a proper remap & good performance exhaust system is plenty of fun, my beige G31 40i is faster (at least in a straight line) than stock F series M2, 3/4 & easily kept up with an F10 until I decided 130mph was quick enough.

I’ve had my G31 for over two half years now with no mechanical or coolant issues & it’s currently done 56,600 miles, its been running 480bhp for over 4 years & nothing has broken

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

Hey guys,

I own 2 older machines (an e92 and an e61) and I'm contemplating adding a newer one within a year or so. I'm on a modest budget so I'm looking at pre-owned >2017. Under consideration are, all xdrive: 540i, m550i, and the 750i (I would love to include the 840i and the m850i, but they'd be clearly out of my range).

They're all luxurious and comfortable and stable at high speeds (which I may risk sometimes). After that, accel. and reliability are my top criteria. I hear of some coolant issues, perhaps more so for the 4.4L. I don't know if the more features on the 750i would come with more issues but, as long as they don't compromise drive-ability, I could just live with them.
I'm leaning toward the m550i, if I could afford a lower mileage one.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I'd say stay away from BMW V8s, they're a headache

A 40i will be plenty powerful enough even if you keep it stock and the B58 is incredibly reliable.

It's important to note that while the B58 came out in around 2016ish the V8 is from like 2008 so the architecture is much much older. Yes there have been updates to modernise it but there is no escaping that it is almost 20 years old now.

I'd much rather get one of those top spec 40i models and drop 1000 dollars on a downpipe & tune to get something that is at or higher output than the 50i.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

I'd say stay away from BMW V8s, they're a headache

A 40i will be plenty powerful enough even if you keep it stock and the B58 is incredibly reliable.

It's important to note that while the B58 came out in around 2016ish the V8 is from like 2008 so the architecture is much much older. Yes there have been updates to modernise it but there is no escaping that it is almost 20 years old now.

I'd much rather get one of those top spec 40i models and drop 1000 dollars on a downpipe & tune to get something that is at or higher output than the 50i.

One could argue that 20 year old refined architecture is more tried and tested than 2016 architecture. Don't confuse the original N63 with the TU2/TU3. Most of us here have had no "headaches". Have you owned a "BMW V8"?

One could also argue - what is the difference between worrying about V8 headaches (whatever that means) when you're taking a B58 and beating the shit out of it with downpipes and a tune? I'd argue life expectancy will be the same.

Just an alternative informed view. Not coming at you specifically, just the ignorant generic broad swipe "BMW V8's are unreliable" is getting old.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

One could argue that 20 year old refined architecture is more tried and tested than 2016 architecture. Don't confuse the original N63 with the TU2/TU3. Most of us here have had no "headaches". Have you owned a "BMW V8"?

To add to that, if the 20-yr old architecture were that bad, it would have been dumped and we would have a new V8 architecture in 2016 The fact that it is still going strong says something...

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

One could argue that 20 year old refined architecture is more tried and tested than 2016 architecture. Don't confuse the original N63 with the TU2/TU3. Most of us here have had no "headaches". Have you owned a "BMW V8"?

One could also argue - what is the difference between worrying about V8 headaches (whatever that means) when you're taking a B58 and beating the shit out of it with downpipes and a tune? I'd argue life expectancy will be the same.

Just an alternative informed view. Not coming at you specifically, just the ignorant generic broad swipe "BMW V8's are unreliable" is getting old.

Yeah maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic but I think there is "something" to BMW V8s being less reliable than their I6

Personally I haven't had experience with it, only anecdotal and 2nd/3rd hand info and if you want to chaulk it up to small sample size that's fine but from that small sample the occurence of issues seems higher in the v8s even though far more of those cars were stock relative to the B series 4s and 6s. The turbo N series 4s and 6s were also not great reliability wise so I'm not saying the inlines are awesome and v8s bad exclusively.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by adhrp

To add to that, if the 20-yr old architecture were that bad, it would have been dumped and we would have a new V8 architecture in 2016 The fact that it is still going strong says something...

I'd venture a guess to say it's more about the lower sales volumes making it more difficult to justify investing in a new v8 platform.