[EneS52]

I recently picked up my 2023 540i which I special ordered. It is "fully loaded," except when I drove off I was shocked it only had a tiny rear-view camera and no surround view (or even front view) camera.

The dealer was surprised to and ended up figuring out that for reasons unbeknownst to them the 2023 540 does not come equipped with the 360 surround view camera, not even as an option! Only the M550 has that option.

Very disappointing, especially given my monthly payment; and BMW will not even help.

Has anyone else had this experience with their 5-seriues?

[BMW012]

what car did you have before and did it have the 360 camera? I believe you have the 360 sensors instead, correct?

[tedesco_sc]

Originally Posted by EneS52

I recently picked up my 2023 540i which I special ordered. It is "fully loaded," except when I drove off I was shocked it only had a tiny rear-view camera and no surround view (or even front view) camera.

The dealer was surprised to and ended up figuring out that for reasons unbeknownst to them the 2023 540 does not come equipped with the 360 surround view camera, not even as an option! Only the M550 has that option.

Very disappointing, especially given my monthly payment; and BMW will not even help.

Has anyone else had this experience with their 5-seriues?

That is correct; I too have a 540i that I custom ordered as well, but I knew from the get-go that no 360˚ camera would be available. Car & Driver stated "The Parking Assistance package is no longer available on 530i, 530e, and 540i models [...]"; and from Motortrend, "The Parking Assistance package is available only for the M550i xDrive model."

Disappointing, sure; however, the kick-to-open trunk is back, as it was stated that it may or may not have been available; some 2023 5-series didn't come with it, apparently due to the chip shortage issue.

[MauiSteve]

That is so messed up! It's a big car, the cameras are super helpful. I think this would be a deal breaker for me.

[NGT2]

I knew they’d taken that away. It’s bullshit. That should be standard on these cars, really. It’s like a $700 option. Just make it standard.

[MelbourneFinn]

LOL - they put the 360 cameras on 116 diesels instead… That’s called product planning! Seriously messed up!

[AP]

Yes the specs are not what they used to be
Quite a few things no longer available (ceramic controls and soft closing doors come to mind) or only available for certain models, presumably due to shortages

My 550 got the boot/trunk foot control which I was not expecting

Just in general the ordering process and choice certainly is not what it was last time I ordered back in 2017

[Gautam]

It’s total bs, sorry op. Really should be table stakes in 2023. If you’re ambitious enough, it’s possible (but very involved and pricey) to retrofit.

Originally Posted by MelbourneFinn

LOL - they put the 360 cameras on 116 diesels instead… That’s called product planning! Seriously messed up!

Probably mostly affects the us market. I’m sure in other markets lower trims will have close to everything available.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Gautam

Probably mostly affects the us market. I’m sure in other markets lower trims will have close to everything available.

Yep, in many other markets BMW is already at the peak of what they can extract pricing wise. So they aren't pulling as much mess.

The US has had a shortage of cars and BMW is clipping available options under the guise of COVID to help drive people up trim and increase their bottom line.

Sucks, but here we are.

Hopefully this goes away soon... I suspect it might with the collapse of their sales in China.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

Yep, in many other markets BMW is already at the peak of what they can extract pricing wise. So they aren't pulling as much mess.

The US has had a shortage of cars and BMW is clipping available options under the guise of COVID to help drive people up trim and increase their bottom line.

Sucks, but here we are.

Hopefully this goes away soon... I suspect it might with the collapse of their sales in China.

What’s happening with the car market in China?

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by NGT2

What’s happening with the car market in China?

Auto sales by foreign manufacturers like BMW have tanked as domestic car companies overtake them and China is heavily exporting autos as well. Such that for the first time Germany imports more cars than it exports and those imports are Chinese.


They spent the better part of 30 years training China's auto industry and now they are being left flat footed.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...-marin-2023-05

China is also on track to become the largest exporter of cars globally knocking Japan off that perch.

The headwinds on China will be a real challenge for BMW as they are a smaller automaker.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

Auto sales by foreign manufacturers like BMW have tanked as domestic car companies overtake them and China is heavily exporting autos as well. Such that for the first time Germany imports more cars than it exports and those imports are Chinese.


They spent the better part of 30 years training China's auto industry and now they are being left flat footed.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...-marin-2023-05

China is also on track to become the largest exporter of cars globally knocking Japan off that perch.

The headwinds on China will be a real challenge for BMW as they are a smaller automaker.

China isn’t exactly innovative. But they’re really good at figuring out what you do and then making it more and cheaper.

[Rocket455]

My close-to-loaded 2020 M340i had the surround camera, but my close-to-base 2022 M550i doesn't. I also bought my mom a new VW Taos SE in Sept last year, and they were forced to delete stuff like cross-traffic sensors and kick-to-open trunk because of the whole chip shortage issue, but were able to pull off rain-sensing wipers and adaptive cruise control...so it's definitely an inconsistent and mixed bag of what gets deleted and with which manufacturer.

The surround cameras were useful, I'll admit, but I've made it a point not to solely rely on the tech and still crane my neck around to check for blind spots and when I'm backing up (earning me the loving nickname "old f**k" from my colleagues).

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by NGT2

China isn’t exactly innovative. But they’re really good at figuring out what you do and then making it more and cheaper.

They appear to be innovating pretty well in the EV space. It remains to be seen how well they can keep it up, but it will be a stressful period for BMW. Especially as China increases exports to other markets. Cars with better tech features and luxury features for half the price of BMW, for instance, will offer stiff competition.

Even if it fails to take traction outside of China the loss of the Chinese market which BMW has used as a major sales market will add serious pressure to them.

They need to figure out a viable strategy on tech and luxury to help build customer loyalty deeply to insulate themselves from the competitive headwinds, but that's likely not going to happen.

They need to treat customers as nicely as a brand like Apple when their customers interact with their official stores and etc. So they become fanatically loyal. Going to a BMW dealership is like being raked over hot coals even though you're paying luxury pricing all throughout the experience from ordering to service and so on.

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by EneS52

I recently picked up my 2023 540i which I special ordered. It is "fully loaded," except when I drove off I was shocked it only had a tiny rear-view camera and no surround view (or even front view) camera.

The dealer was surprised to and ended up figuring out that for reasons unbeknownst to them the 2023 540 does not come equipped with the 360 surround view camera, not even as an option! Only the M550 has that option.

Very disappointing, especially given my monthly payment; and BMW will not even help.

Has anyone else had this experience with their 5-seriues?

The “parking assistance pkg” (includes 360 surround view w/ 3D view) did not show as available on the BMW build site when I ordered my M550 in Nov. 2021, but my dealer was able to add it anyway.

You may have been able to add the pkg depending on availability at the time, but your dealer would have had to request it when placing your order.

[BMW012]

yepp, creating ev cars are much easier than an ICE car. As we saw with tesla... plus the china banks are all owned by the government, so they can incentivize. losing out on the china market is a big loss to any brand.

[Extremeengineer]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

They need to treat customers as nicely as a brand like Apple when their customers interact with their official stores and etc. So they become fanatically loyal. Going to a BMW dealership is like being raked over hot coals even though you're paying luxury pricing all throughout the experience from ordering to service and so on.

So I’m coming from a frame of reference that is just that… from Porsche. My Porsche dealer knows me dealership wide by name, I have the main service tech, service advisor, manager of dealership all as contacts in my phone. They don’t abuse it and neither do I, and I’ve bought 4 new Porsches from them in a few years.

Wanted to try a PHEV, bought a CPO 530e, first experience was when the 50 year roundel puddle light projectors showed up in the myBMW app, $110 for 2, called dealership parts to order 2 sets, was quoted $173 a set…wait, what? A couple of holds later, so where did you see that? For third time, from BMW, should I just order from them, which says it is going to be shipped to you? No, we’ll match it, gee thanks, makes me want to come back to you to get screwed on something else for sure!

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by BMW012

yepp, creating ev cars are much easier than an ICE car. As we saw with tesla... plus the china banks are all owned by the government, so they can incentivize. losing out on the china market is a big loss to any brand.

They’re majorly screwed on some real estate exposure in China and probably here, too. They can own the bank. It can still blow up in their face.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Extremeengineer

So I’m coming from a frame of reference that is just that… from Porsche. My Porsche dealer knows me dealership wide by name, I have the main service tech, service advisor, manager of deslership all as contacts in my phone. They don’t abuse it and neither do I, and I’ve bought 4 new Porsches from them in a few years.

Wanted to try a PHEV, bought a CPO 530e, first experience was when the 50 year roundel puddle light projectors showed up in the myBMW app, $110 for 2, called deslership parts to order 2 sets, was quoted $173 a set…wait, what? A couple of holds later, so where did you see that? For third time, from BMW, should I just order from them, which says it is going to be shipped to you? No, we’ll match it, gee thanks, makes me want to come back to you to get screwed on something else for sure!

It is reflective of them getting complacent and the chickens are starting to come home to roost. If they don't get their act together quickly they'll be knocked out of the running altogether.

My 530e is my first BMW and BMW is a brand I grew up watching their Clive Owen advertising series back in HS. I had a desire to own the brand at some point. I ordered my MY2020 car only to learn after taking delivery (months later due to forum discussions) that BMW had created a Frankenstein with MY2020. The lack of upfront disclosure was off putting for a $70K car...

Then you have the annoying issues with the dealerships that drain you of your affinity for the brand too. Like when I moved from SE PA to upstate NY. I had my driver's door repaired for noise in NJ a few months before the move. The noise came back quickly so I took it to the dealership in upstate NY which I figured would be no big deal. Instead I end up in a back and forth with the NY dealership who are adamant the door was incorrectly repaired and that's the problem. I'll need to pay out of pocket since BMW won't pay them for another dealership messing up a repair. Huh? They ended up doing the repair "as a courtesy". It was a < $1K repair on a car still under the bumper to bumper warranty that has only seen BMW dealership service. Gives you a bad taste in your mouth that you have to prepare for warranty fights even though BMW markets their warranties as "any BMW dealership".

I enjoy the car thankfully, but they need to dramatically improve the brand's customer relations if they are to get me to buy another one. It should scare them too as I'm in my 30s. So they need to keep customers in my age bracket excited about the brand if they are to survive the headwinds taking shape.

They can't expect to be on top due to the badge... Younger people aren't excited about badges like older people were at our age. Hence why Tesla's are drooled over and BMWs are not in the younger brackets.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

They appear to be innovating pretty well in the EV space. It remains to be seen how well they can keep it up, but it will be a stressful period for BMW. Especially as China increases exports to other markets. Cars with better tech features and luxury features for half the price of BMW, for instance, will offer stiff competition.

Even if it fails to take traction outside of China the loss of the Chinese market which BMW has used as a major sales market will add serious pressure to them.

They need to figure out a viable strategy on tech and luxury to help build customer loyalty deeply to insulate themselves from the competitive headwinds, but that's likely not going to happen.

They need to treat customers as nicely as a brand like Apple when their customers interact with their official stores and etc. So they become fanatically loyal. Going to a BMW dealership is like being raked over hot coals even though you're paying luxury pricing all throughout the experience from ordering to service and so on.

Zero argument on the smart path forward.

I will say that my experience with the BMW dealers I’ve purchased from has been great and my service experience has been good so far.

It doesn’t take innovation to build their electric cars. They just copy what we’ve done and they have all the natural resources for the batteries. They also have no real labor laws. Of course it’s cheaper. Sweat shop labor and battery resources at home.

I’d like to see how the build quality matches up. Everyone sees Tesla as the big dog EV here and people say build quality sucks.

But I hope we never see them to compare for ourselves because I hope we don’t allow them in our market. Not as long as these tensions remain. No reason to allow them access to our enormous market when they’re actively saying they want to overtake us and supplant our global position.

Honestly, I think they’re economy is a bigger house of cards than ours. It eventually caught up with the Soviet Union. We will see how things go the next few years.

[Magnit]

The same. Ordered fully loaded 540x and learned night after picked up there are no 360 camera. Coming from Audi where it is present on all trims is shame. Another issue - for such car there are no a/c control on the back. Audi A6 has 4 zones and BMW5 is only 2 zones A/C. Market segmentation...

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by MauiSteve

That is so messed up! It's a big car, the cameras are super helpful. I think this would be a deal breaker for me.

Most Americans cannot fathom the types of roads I regularly drive on here in Germany, much less the tiny parking spots and garages.

I have the normal parking sensors on my 540 and I have never hit anything.

In the US, I never even needed parking sensors, let alone a 360-degree camera.