[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Gautam

Didn’t you have the shutters go bad too?

Thing is, sure, for an 8 year old car you can make the case that this isn’t *that* bad, esp with a warranty. But that list is easily mid if not high four figures of repairs even outside of hcol areas (assuming no warranty), and at least a couple of days in the shop each time unless you’re “lucky” enough to knock them all out at once. I’m being a little whiny, but only a little. My f30 started to hit a similar rate of issues at close to 80k instead of 60k, granted much simpler, cheaper car.


Anecdotal but my indie said they’ve seen the same rate of leaks across tu2 and 3. This is again one of those things that’s almost guaranteed with bmw v8’s and exactly why they have a bad rep.

Nope, last Friday I got a CEL for a minute or two and it's yet to return. You may be thinking of that where we suspected it was the shutters. Still original shutters, those are covered anyway by BMW.

I hear you on the cost, BUT, many of these things I look at as bugs in early models that they fixed by upgrading the part or extending the warranty. So you would expect poorly designed pieces to fail under warranty. For example, the coolant lines, it is very rare someone gets stuck with the bill because they failed after warranty. The seat mat "restraint malfunction" is also pretty common and usually fails within the warranty.

Flex disk has plagued BMW's for the last 20 years. Not sure why they can't get this right. I guess I have been around the block too long that I realize you come to accept bringing it in far more than most cars on the road. I still live by the "never drive a BMW out of warranty" statement. I would be fine never getting my $3,100 back on route 66 though.

Coolant issues are not a new thing for any BMW over the last 20 years. Keep in mind, indies LOVE to whine, speaking of whining. They really aren't in the game and they troubleshoot shit on older cars from people that don't want to pay the dealer. Most of their remarks are historical without context. Again, another thing I have learned. In the same space as - BMW "V8's are bad" from the indie that only works on V8's from 15 years ago. Just my take. Got to put it all in perspective. BMW's aren't cheap, but they are fun to drive like no other car.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Gautam

Didn’t you have the shutters go bad too?

Thing is, sure, for an 8 year old car you can make the case that this isn’t *that* bad, esp with a warranty. But that list is easily mid if not high four figures of repairs even outside of hcol areas (assuming no warranty), and at least a couple of days in the shop each time unless you’re “lucky” enough to knock them all out at once. I’m being a little whiny, but only a little. My f30 started to hit a similar rate of issues at close to 80k instead of 60k, granted much simpler, cheaper car.


Anecdotal but my indie said they’ve seen the same rate of leaks across tu2 and 3. This is again one of those things that’s almost guaranteed with bmw v8’s and exactly why they have a bad rep.

Not whiny, you are right to feel so. Funny thing is, for all the flak that the N20 got, my F30 was uber reliable even when I sold it at 130K miles. The only real issue it developed was a wastegate leak and in the early N20 the entire turbo had to be replaced. At an indie, it cost me under 2K parts plus labor (sourced the turbo myself).

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Not whiny, you are right to feel so. Funny thing is, for all the flak that the N20 got, my F30 was uber reliable even when I sold it at 130K miles. The only real issue it developed was a wastegate leak and in the early N20 the entire turbo had to be replaced. At an indie, it cost me under 2K parts plus labor (sourced the turbo myself).

100%. I edited my post above to reflect on indies.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Nope, last Friday I got a CEL for a minute or two and it's yet to return. You may be thinking of that where we suspected it was the shutters. Still original shutters, those are covered anyway by BMW.

I hear you on the cost, BUT, many of these things I look at as bugs in early models that they fixed by upgrading the part or extending the warranty. So you would expect poorly designed pieces to fail under warranty. For example, the coolant lines, it is very rare someone gets stuck with the bill because they failed after warranty. The seat mat "restraint malfunction" is also pretty common and usually fails within the warranty.

Flex disk has plagued BMW's for the last 20 years. Not sure why they can't get this right. I guess I have been around the block too long that I realize you come to accept bringing it in far more than most cars on the road. I still live by the "never drive a BMW out of warranty" statement. I would be fine never getting my $3,100 back on route 66 though.

Coolant issues are not a new thing for any BMW over the last 20 years. Keep in mind, indies LOVE to whine, speaking of whining. They really aren't in the game and they troubleshoot shit on older cars from people that don't want to pay the dealer. Most of their remarks are historical without context. Again, another thing I have learned. In the same space as - BMW "V8's are bad" from the indie that only works on V8's from 15 years ago. Just my take. Got to put it all in perspective. BMW's aren't cheap, but they are fun to drive like no other car.

You’re not entirely wrong about the last point but there’s a lot of nuance. A lot of mechanics don’t like bmw v8’s because they’re hard to work on. We all bitch about work, in some sense it’s the same for them.

I’ve used plenty of indies and a lot of dealers, nj/nyc, portland, various parts of California. I’ll take the good indies over the average dealer any day, even if they cost the same. The dealers in coastal cities are all severely understaffed and typically don’t have loaners. Everything is slow, from checking in and checking out the car, to getting an sa on the phone, to the actual repair itself. I’ve encountered all of this at literally close to a dozen dealers on both coasts. I had Stevens creek bmw tell me I’d need to wait 3 weeks for an oil change. (That after giving me some flack for wanting it between the recommended interval) For the most part, none of the people are bad, they’re just swamped and forced to follow a script. The indies I patronize used to work at dealers. Same skill level, but much quicker turnaround times, much more personalized service, and of course lower cost.

FWIW the best dealer I worked with was kuni bmw in Portland, or, since they were mentioned here. Quick and drama free, loaners weren’t a problem. I’ve tended to live in areas where bimmers are very popular though, and that correlates strongly. I have over 10 dealers within 50 miles of my home to give an idea, and all of them are perpetually swamped.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Gautam

You’re not entirely wrong about the last point but there’s a lot of nuance. A lot of mechanics don’t like bmw v8’s because they’re hard to work on. We all bitch about work, in some sense it’s the same for them.

I’ve used plenty of indies and a lot of dealers, nj/nyc, portland, various parts of California. I’ll take the good indies over the average dealer any day, even if they cost the same. The dealers in coastal cities are all severely understaffed and typically don’t have loaners. Everything is slow, from checking in and checking out the car, to getting an sa on the phone, to the actual repair itself. I’ve encountered all of this at literally close to a dozen dealers on both coasts. I had Stevens creek bmw tell me I’d need to wait 3 weeks for an oil change. (That after giving me some flack for wanting it between the recommended interval) For the most part, none of the people are bad, they’re just swamped and forced to follow a script. The indies I patronize used to work at dealers. Same skill level, but much quicker turnaround times, much more personalized service, and of course lower cost.

FWIW the best dealer I worked with was kuni bmw in Portland, or, since they were mentioned here. Quick and drama free, loaners weren’t a problem. I’ve tended to live in areas where bimmers are very popular though, and that correlates strongly. I have over 10 dealers within 50 miles of my home to give an idea, and all of them are perpetually swamped.

Fair enough and I totally agree, your mileage may vary when it comes to both dealers and indies.

I have an outstanding indie. This guy (the owner) knows his shit and we can talk Bimmers for hours. It's like being on this board with people like us. The problem is, he is more expensive than the dealer by a lot. He will only use BMW parts sourced by a local dealer. So I have to pay dealer prices for the parts, plus his mark-up. I am all for OEM parts, but there were a few opportunities to save some money with an aftermarket part that was better on my E39 and he would not budge. Drive shaft comes to mind, he would only order it from Germany. I accepted that, but when it came time for my 60k service on the M550, his quote was over $1,000 more than the dealer.

Again, YMMV, but I have a really good dealer for service I have been going to since 1987. I have gone back and forth on the indie and dealer on the M550, but I have not been to the indie in two years. He's too damn expensive and he doesn't have a loaner and kiss my ass like the dealer. I don't need my ass kissed, but when the cost is half and my ass is getting kissed by my hot blonde SA.....it's tough to refuse.

Seriously, proof in the pudding comes when there is a serious issue and how well they do. Sure, I love my dealer. They are cheap and changing differential fluid (BTW xdrive service was only $479) is easy and preventative, but if I had a tough issue to resolve, that is when dealers generally suck. They just throw their hands up and want to replace everything $$.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Fair enough and I totally agree, your mileage may vary when it comes to both dealers and indies.

I have an outstanding indie. This guy (the owner) knows his shit and we can talk Bimmers for hours. It's like being on this board with people like us. The problem is, he is more expensive than the dealer by a lot. He will only use BMW parts sourced by a local dealer. So I have to pay dealer prices for the parts, plus his mark-up. I am all for OEM parts, but there were a few opportunities to save some money with an aftermarket part that was better on my E39 and he would not budge. Drive shaft comes to mind, he would only order it from Germany. I accepted that, but when it came time for my 60k service on the M550, his quote was over $1,000 more than the dealer.

Again, YMMV, but I have a really good dealer for service I have been going to since 1987. I have gone back and forth on the indie and dealer on the M550, but I have not been to the indie in two years. He's too damn expensive and he doesn't have a loaner and kiss my ass like the dealer. I don't need my ass kissed, but when the cost is half and my ass is getting kissed by my hot blonde SA.....it's tough to refuse.

Seriously, proof in the pudding comes when there is a serious issue and how well they do. Sure, I love my dealer. They are cheap and changing differential fluid (BTW xdrive service was only $479) is easy and preventative, but if I had a tough issue to resolve, that is when dealers generally suck. They just throw their hands up and want to replace everything $$.

We're pretty much in the same boat here. The two good local indies here are the same or more expensive (?!) than the dealer so I haven't been to either. My SA is great, I like the 24 MO warranty on all repairs, and the Value Menu pricing is very competitive, which is pretty much all I have needed outside of warranty claims so far. I get to enjoy a wonderful lounge with snacks and drinks if I wait, or I get an Uber pick up/drop off anywhere in the city. Can't beat that unless you offer particularly attractive pricing.