[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by Mandingo9

Didn’t hear about the basketball sized hail in the forecast

Golf ball size apparently In Kane county etc.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I did both the prep and the ceramic myself.

Actually, honestly, I didn't prep it beyond a clay bar. But I didn't prep the 5 before waxing it either. These cars are drivers, not garage queens.

There's another thread somewhere on this, I'm sure, but basically to summarize, succinctly:

Ceramic coating is marketing b.s.

My understanding, from reading multiple articles (that I’m definitely not prepared to go find haha) is that doing the clay bar further damages the paint. So clay baring gets a lot of shit off the car, but you’re not going to get the desired look if you don’t “paint correct” after you clay it. The whole point of the process is to: clean the surface of all contaminants, restore the paint as much as possible or desired, and then make your best attempt at preserving that work with a coating of material to act as a buffer between the environment and your newly restored paint.

So the ceramic does two things: it (like wax) acts as a hydrophobic and glossy layer for looks and for repelling water and dirt and other contaminants and it serves to be a sacrificial layer on top of your paint.

Where people feel they get ripped off is when they’ve bought into irresponsible marketing or aren’t educated on the realistic purpose and capability.

The reason ceramic coating is so expensive and the reason alot of people (myself included) don’t do it themselves is because of the time, knowledge, and skill required to do the paint correction part. The coating itself isn’t that expensive and can be easily applied.

Ceramic coating isn’t PPF. It won’t stop rock chips or door dings, etc. It will be a buffer to dust and water and those types of everyday minor threats to the paint. And when you do wash your car and you dry it off and inevitably drag some minuscule contaminants across the paint, hopefully that’s just dragging across the ceramic and not the paint. Again, sacrificial layer.

I’m not interested in a pissing match either. I have a young and appropriately sized prostate and it wouldn’t be fair What anyone chooses to do and feels is worth it is their own business. I’d venture to say the ceramic was a waste of time for the prep work you’re willing to put it. All good. Wax probably is the better product for you. There’s a reason it still exists. People still like it.

I’ve gathered some solid experience with costed and uncoated cars. My experience is that the car looked noticeably better after the appropriate prep work and coating was done and it stayed noticeably cleaner and glossier than the non coated cars. And the ease of cleaning back to that gloss is not comparable to the process of getting my non coated cars in comparable shape.

I look forward to seeing if I get the same results on the M550 prepping and coating as I did the 540. I’m paying more this time but this guy spends significantly more time on the prep work. I’m open to the possibility that it makes no difference, but I’m just curious to find out. This car justifies the higher expense more than the 540 did, I think.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by NGT2

My understanding, from reading multiple articles (that I’m definitely not prepared to go find haha) is that doing the clay bar further damages the paint. So clay baring gets a lot of shit off the car, but you’re not going to get the desired look if you don’t “paint correct” after you clay it. The whole point of the process is to: clean the surface of all contaminants, restore the paint as much as possible or desired, and then make your best attempt at preserving that work with a coating of material to act as a buffer between the environment and your newly restored paint.

So the ceramic does two things: it (like wax) acts as a hydrophobic and glossy layer for looks and for repelling water and dirt and other contaminants and it serves to be a sacrificial layer on top of your paint.

Where people feel they get ripped off is when they’ve bought into irresponsible marketing or aren’t educated on the realistic purpose and capability.

The reason ceramic coating is so expensive and the reason alot of people (myself included) don’t do it themselves is because of the time, knowledge, and skill required to do the paint correction part. The coating itself isn’t that expensive and can be easily applied.

Ceramic coating isn’t PPF. It won’t stop rock chips or door dings, etc. It will be a buffer to dust and water and those types of everyday minor threats to the paint. And when you do wash your car and you dry it off and inevitably drag some minuscule contaminants across the paint, hopefully that’s just dragging across the ceramic and not the paint. Again, sacrificial layer.

I’m not interested in a pissing match either. I have a young and appropriately sized prostate and it wouldn’t be fair What anyone chooses to do and feels is worth it is their own business. I’d venture to say the ceramic was a waste of time for the prep work you’re willing to put it. All good. Wax probably is the better product for you. There’s a reason it still exists. People still like it.

I’ve gathered some solid experience with costed and uncoated cars. My experience is that the car looked noticeably better after the appropriate prep work and coating was done and it stayed noticeably cleaner and glossier than the non coated cars. And the ease of cleaning back to that gloss is not comparable to the process of getting my non coated cars in comparable shape.

I look forward to seeing if I get the same results on the M550 prepping and coating as I did the 540. I’m paying more this time but this guy spends significantly more time on the prep work. I’m open to the possibility that it makes no difference, but I’m just curious to find out. This car justifies the higher expense more than the 540 did, I think.

I've had three cars coated in the last two years and I have never been disappointed, more amazed at the results. I wasn't going to do my M550 at first because 1/3 of the car is PPF'd and the paint was in crazy good shape. When I picked the car up, I could not believe how fresh and new the paint looked. Looked almost like a different color.

I do think there is more bang for the buck in dark glossy colors because they are the colors that show the most imperfections. I think your color is a tweener and will come out super nice. The other thing, as you know, cleaning and drying will be a breeze.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

We are not going to get into a pissing match here because:

a) we are both old and probably have enlarged prostates and it would just be embarrassing and
2) no one is going to win

So, it seems that we agree that with proper prep, there isn't much (if any) difference between the shine/reflectivity of the ceramic vs. wax.

However, you claim that wax doesn't last as long - and my counter to that is that it would have no relation to prep, right? Just to get that out of the way.

So...

The only real way to know is to do half of a car (same prep) wax and half ceramic. Then see how it looks six months later.

I actually did that many years ago with my vinyl (yes, vinyl) roof on my Oldsmobile Cutlass. Yes, I'm that old. Half was treated with "vinyl top wax" and the other was not. 3 years later, I could tell the difference, with one side markedly faded.

The downside was that I forgot which side I had treated. That, and now the top didn't match.

No pissing! Just Friday afternoon jarring! Yes, I agree, probably no difference in visual results after a ceramic or a good wax product. But god, waxing a car is so much more of an effort, but ceramic is tedious - so pick your poison. I prefer to pay someone because of the paint correction, I ain't doing that. I don't trust myself. I have a brand new orbital polisher still in the box.

So while I reflect on what I used to do before I got into detailing, it's pretty much what you did, you washed your car and waxed it (with ceramic), old school.

I do think there is something superior in ceramic to wax, but I have no proof. I am sure there are plenty of YT videos comparing ceramic to wax over time.

On the lighter side, I just love the new term "paint correction", like it's something new or scientific. It's just a fancy term for compounding.

On a different note, if I were a betting man, I would have thought for sure there would be some chatter about The Donald in shackles!

I'll start - the guy bangs a porn star (like every man would like to) and has the funds to tell her to go away. What's wrong with that????????? This is why his ratings went up after the indictment.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by NGT2

So the ceramic does two things: it (like wax) acts as a hydrophobic and glossy layer for looks and for repelling water and dirt and other contaminants and it serves to be a sacrificial layer on top of your paint.

Since we're all having a respectful and polite disagreement here (WTF is wrong with us - this is the INTERNET!!!!) I'll add more to the conversation if I may.

And before I do, really, there isn't a whole lot of disagreement between us so far, not really.

My understanding of the science behind the act of polishing and waxing/ceramicing () the paint is that you are removing the hills and valleys in the surface of the paint. The polishing removes the hills, the peaks in the surface, and the subsequent product fills in some of the valleys and lower areas. This results in a flatter surface, which reflects light better. A rough surface will break up the light and reflect little. That's why a rock has little reflective properties but a piece of glass reflects well. Natch I jest, slightly.

So... that part is science. My conjecture from that is that this smoother surface has less "jagged" area for water to hold on to, which is why it tends to roll off, giving what some people refer to as hydrophobic properties. Which sounds great and is kind of true, but mostly inaccurate as more specifically it's defined as:

Hydrophobic substances are composed of non-polar molecules that repel bodies of water and attract other neutral molecules and non-polar solvents. Examples of these molecules are alkanes, oils and fats in general.

Or, more Englishy, from Wikipedia:

The hydrophobic effect is the observed tendency of nonpolar substances to aggregate in an aqueous solution and exclude water molecules.

So, yeah, but we know what you meant.

As @NGT2 wrote, and I agree and paraphrase here, most of the damage to the paint is caused from washing the car, dragging the dirt (or dirty sponge) across the paint. It's probably even worse when you take your scratchy towel and dry the paint, which is why the exceptionally OCD among us use a blower.

There's a tremendous amount of hyperbole and mumbo-jumbo when it comes to car care products, be it cleaning products or engine additives, and it's tempting to jump on the popular bandwagon and use the latest and greatest product for your baby. Just go to a web site like autogeek and see the literally thousands of options for waxes, protectants, ceramics, cleaning agents, etc. And then delve deeper into AutoGeek and discover that they are just part of Palm Beach Motoring Group, which has 7 different web sites selling much of the same stuff, much of it under their private label brands, again with a lot of duplication but all alike in that they are extremely expensive bottles of water with some small amount of additives.

There is a good reason that Mr. Griot is so incredibly wealthy. But I digress.

Sorry to go off on such a long-winded digression. It's Friday and I'm stuck at work.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

On the lighter side, I just love the new term "paint correction", like it's something new or scientific. It's just a fancy term for compounding.

I'm with you 100% on that one brother. It's one of my pet peeves. They ain't correcting nothing. It's a good polish, that's all.

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

On a different note, if I were a betting man, I would have thought for sure there would be some chatter about The Donald in shackles!

I'll start - the guy bangs a porn star (like every man would like to) and has the funds to tell her to go away. What's wrong with that????????? This is why his ratings went up after the indictment.

Well, I try to avoid political discussions because like religious differences, no one is going to change anyone else's mind.

However, I will suggest that I would not want to bang a porn star because
a) 98% of them are kind of skanky and those that are not have had some "work" done, and I'm an all natural kind of guy
2) who could tell if they're really enjoying it anyway?

TBH, I would make an exception for the young Marilyn Chambers, may she RIP.

I think his ratings went up after the indictment because he loves playing the victim. And that lets people who also feel victimized (for whatever reason) relate to him better, because it's just not fair!

Everyone is against us! Let's join up in our solidarity of being picked on by everyone else.

Kind of reminds me (apologies in advance) of all the Harley Davidson riders who enjoy dressing up exactly alike to illustrate their uniqueness. Look at me, I'm a rebel because I don't bathe and I won't wear a helmet!!!!



I wrote the above paragraph because I used to be a Beemer rider, and we were (and are) all superior because we are real riders who ride real motorcycles and don't just trailer our bikes to meets so that we can drink beer and get new tattoos.

Apologies again to anyone that I offended, it's all in jest.

[Mandingo9]

Wax is the android of paint, it’s inferior. I don’t know a wax that lasts 3,5,10 years after one application and repels as much dirty and grime as a ceramic. After that fresh liquid tar bath I took last year no way wax would of held up. It would of blew through and I still would be dealing with tar months later.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

However, I will suggest that I would not want to bang a porn star because
a) 98% of them are kind of skanky and those that are not have had some "work" done, and I'm an all natural kind of guy
2) who could tell if they're really enjoying it anyway?

TBH, I would make an exception for the young Marilyn Chambers, may she RIP.

a) skanky with work done....that's pretty much a porn star!! IDK Luv, I think you may be on an island by yourself with these reasons not to.

b) who cares! They can fake it all they want as long as I am enjoying it. I'm sure Mandingo9 would please them.

Marilyn Chambers....ahh...when pornstars had bushes the size of a dinner triangle.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I did both the prep and the ceramic myself.

Actually, honestly, I didn't prep it beyond a clay bar. But I didn't prep the 5 before waxing it either. These cars are drivers, not garage queens.

There's another thread somewhere on this, I'm sure, but basically to summarize, succinctly:

Ceramic coating is marketing b.s.

[Mandingo9]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

a) skanky with work done....that's pretty much a porn star!! IDK Luv, I think you may be on an island by yourself with these reasons not to.

b) who cares! They can fake it all they want as long as I am enjoying it. I'm sure Mandingo9 would please them.

Marilyn Chambers....ahh...when pornstars had bushes the size of a dinner triangle.

I would probably make one of those whores blush. After I was done with them they want to become a born again Christian.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

b) who cares! They can fake it all they want as long as I am enjoying it.

I'm reminded of a joke.

A man and a woman are preparing to go to bed together for the first time. As they disrobe, the woman sees the man naked and asks, "who do you think you're going to please with that little thing?"

He replies, "Me."

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Since we're all having a respectful and polite disagreement here (WTF is wrong with us - this is the INTERNET!!!!) I'll add more to the conversation if I may.

And before I do, really, there isn't a whole lot of disagreement between us so far, not really.

My understanding of the science behind the act of polishing and waxing/ceramicing () the paint is that you are removing the hills and valleys in the surface of the paint. The polishing removes the hills, the peaks in the surface, and the subsequent product fills in some of the valleys and lower areas. This results in a flatter surface, which reflects light better. A rough surface will break up the light and reflect little. That's why a rock has little reflective properties but a piece of glass reflects well. Natch I jest, slightly.

So... that part is science. My conjecture from that is that this smoother surface has less "jagged" area for water to hold on to, which is why it tends to roll off, giving what some people refer to as hydrophobic properties. Which sounds great and is kind of true, but mostly inaccurate as more specifically it's defined as:

Hydrophobic substances are composed of non-polar molecules that repel bodies of water and attract other neutral molecules and non-polar solvents. Examples of these molecules are alkanes, oils and fats in general.

Or, more Englishy, from Wikipedia:

The hydrophobic effect is the observed tendency of nonpolar substances to aggregate in an aqueous solution and exclude water molecules.

So, [...]

I think we’re all on the same page. The bullshit is out there and some people buy it and then those people get disappointed and have negative opinions and reviews. When you pay for ceramic coating, you’re really paying for a big polish job and the the application of the modern day wax job. It’s not invincible, it still has to be maintained to perform well, but it will last longer than a traditional wax job.

IF you’re someone that is paying a detailer to do the job, whether wax or ceramic, then I could make a case that the ceramic may at least save some trips to the detailer and save some dough over a year plus. Obviously depends on the variables of what you pay for a thorough wash and wax and what you pay for the ceramic job.

I paid a few hundred for the ceramic on the dark graphite 540. Even if they didn’t spend as many hours on the polishing as some others, it came out damn good. Was already in good shape, so that helps. Definitely worth it.

I’m going to use another guy for the M550. Go to guy for detailing when I can’t and for bouncing off tips and methods. It will be $1,200 but he will keep it for about 36 hours vs a few hours. I think he’s probably more detail oriented and he will also coat all the glass and trim.

I’ll let y’all know if I think I got any more value for doubling the money (at least). The guy has given me tons of free advice and time. It’s a unique color and a higher end vehicle. So I figure between the color, the car, and the free time the guys has given that it’s worth seeing what his work is all about.

[2022M550i]

The 80’s….

[Mandingo9]

Also the 80’s

[Mandingo9]

Just got done driving on the highway in a MONSOON. Visibility was down to about three car lengths. Suprise, suprise car was a solid af. I plowed into some puddles and traction control didn’t even go off, xdrive brushed it off.

[smacky]

Originally Posted by Mandingo9

Grand Ave is every where. Are you at the ford on grand Ave so I can have it carpet bombed?

I got curious and checked out the Staff site to put a picture to the name. Only one Arab-sounding name there and there's no pic. Does have a phone number, though, so... send nudes?

They also got a black dude on there that looks like Troy Polamalu. If Troy Polamalu was black. And looked like a midget-pimp.

Don't tell him I said that.

[Mandingo9]

Originally Posted by smacky

I got curious and checked out the Staff site to put a picture to the name. Only one Arab-sounding name there and there's no pic. Does have a phone number, though, so... send nudes?

They also got a black dude on there that looks like Troy Polamalu. If Troy Polamalu was black. And looked like a midget-pimp.

Don't tell him I said that.

Don’t worry your secret is safe with me

[Mandingo9]

Found Mosaud1998 headshot on the website

[Chappers 71]

Having recently had the bonnet 2 stage polished & ceramic coated, I’d say the finish on the cc is better than wax.
The paint on the G31 is in pretty good order for a 5 year 50,000 mile car. When I first got it I washed wax polished & resin sealed it pretty much every weekend for almost a couple of months & it looked great, I was & still am very pleased with it.
The stone chilps on the bonnet, especially 6 or so really did bug me though so as most of you know I bought a stone chip repair kit & got a bit carried away touching them in & wet sanding them back, admittedly at one time I thought I’d never get the paint work back.
Many hours were spent working on the sanded areas using G3 & good old T Cut colour magic followed by more hours polishing with Carnauba wax & resin sealer & to be fair I did a pretty good job & was happy enough.
But the CC coating the bonnet now has looks, feels & repeals water much better than it did previously with the wax finish, so much so that I’m getting the rest of the G31 done in a couple of weeks time.
Have posted pics of the bonnet waxed & CC’d below.
The first 1 shows the mess I made sanding back the paint touch up, next 2 are hand compounded & waxed & the final 3 are after the machine polish & CC.
I reckon there’s more ‘shine’ with the CC & the colour seems to ‘pop’ more, how much of that’s down to the 2 stage polish though I couldn’t say

[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by Mandingo9

Found Mosaud1998 headshot on the website

Gah dayumn I'm not white tho

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

I do think there is more bang for the buck in dark glossy colors because they are the colors that show the most imperfections. I think your color is a tweener and will come out super nice. The other thing, as you know, cleaning and drying will be a breeze.

I generally agree. I’d have done it regardless, even if that rhodonite silver one had worked out. I just like the ease of cleaning and any extra shine I can get. But on silver or white I’d have definitely gone with the less than $500 guy that did the last one.

This color should benefit more than those. At some angles, it’s definitely a tan/gray and is more of a “tweeter” like you described. But at other angles it’s more of a deep bronze and darkens up and gains depth. So that’s why I figured I’d go all in like it were a DGM or CBM or something.

I’m not saying it’s as sensitive as those colors. But it will definitely show off better than dad’s Kalahari Beige 428.

Hopefully I’ll be able to confirm all that with experience, soon. The clay bar and polish alone will be fun to see the benefit of. I don’t think it’s seen many proper details in its two year life. Probably some bmw exec just drove it and didn’t worry about. To be expected. I told you, I think, I spent 3 hours on the interior. Came out like new, though.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by smacky

I got curious and checked out the Staff site to put a picture to the name. Only one Arab-sounding name there and there's no pic. Does have a phone number, though, so... send nudes?

They also got a black dude on there that looks like Troy Polamalu. If Troy Polamalu was black. And looked like a midget-pimp.

Don't tell him I said that.

Looks like Steve Buscemi’s face on my kids picturem