[Kromans1]

Originally Posted by allinon72

BMWs in the last 7 years are significantly more reliable than the mid-2000s. German cars will always be "expensive" to fix because parts and labor costs are compared to domestics, where parts are cheap because of lower quality and volume of production. German cars also have more engineering behind them, which adds to complexity of repairs that lead to higher labor costs.

Every brand is going to have trade offs when it comes to ownership.

Thank you for this. I think we're ready to handle the trade-off, especially having just tested a '22 X3 yesterday. As far as family SUVs go, I think they're pretty exciting and impressive.

[Kromans1]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Two final thoughts: BMW has a number of different seating packages (maybe not for the X1 but it doesn't matter for my point) and the forums are filled with folks complaining about one type of seat and praising another. My prior BMW was a 330e with the MSport suspension and my spouse hated it. Said it was too harsh. So when I replaced it I went with the adaptive [...]

So the adaptive suspension provides a smoother ride than the M Sport? You can usually just add the adaptive suspension as a stand-alone thing, right, rather than with a whole package?

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Kromans1

Thank you for this. I think we're ready to handle the trade-off, especially having just tested a '22 X3 yesterday. As far as family SUVs go, I think they're pretty exciting and impressive.

x1 and x3 platforms are different. x3 with I6 is not even comparable to x1.

asking folks about reliability of a new car is always impossible to answer but bmws have been more reliable over the last several years while being more complex mainly due to various sensor and s/w features.

since you are buying a new car you will be covered for 3y and can get ext warranty also. If you don't have any major issues during the first 2y most likely you will have good reliability IF you use OE or OEM parts and have good mechanic. Most of the time these cars will treat you well if you get to know them and pay attention to preventive maint (8 and 12 cyl excl)

gl with your car and happy motoring!

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Be aware that the X1 is based on the Mini and is front wheel drive biased, not rear wheel drive like almost every other BMW.

Also, aside from reliability issues, BMW leaves lots of options out of base models and the price can increase dramatically once one adds them in. But, on the other hand, if you don't add them in, you are paying for a luxury car without the luxuries.

BMW actually does pretty well on reliability, especially compared to its German peers (Audi and Mercedes).


My car is particularly at risk for high repair costs because it is a PHEV so I have both an internal combustion engine ("ICE") and a battery pack and electric motor. My solution to that is that I have GEICO as my insurer and I have its mechanical breakdown insurance. Essentially the same as BMW OEM warranty except that it has a $250/incident copay and it will cover me for up to a total of 7 years/100K miles.

So I have my large risks covered until the end of 2024 and I have deposits down on a couple of Battery Electric Vehicles which I figure won't be available for me until at least late next year.

BMWs tend to do much better of fuel efficiency than its competitors. That might offset some of the repair cost risks.

Two final thoughts: BMW has a number of different seating packages (maybe not for the X1 but it doesn't matter for my point) and the forums are filled with folks complaining about one type of seat and praising another. My prior BMW was a 330e with the MSport suspension and my spouse hated it. Said it was too harsh. So when I replaced it I went with the adaptive suspension. My point is that you and any significant other you might have should do a test drive with the combo you are considering and make sure that the seats and suspension will work for you both.

^This on the seating. When I had my 135i in the shop (don't remember what for). Think it was for them doing the PPK2 install. I got a 5 series diesel as a loaner. My SA was excited to be able to get me that loaner and wanted my impressions. I had to drive the loaner for quite some distances and time due to work. When I went to pick up my car, he wanted to know my impressions. I said I hated every moment of driving that thing.

For whatever reason, I couldn't adjust the seats in any way to make me comfortable. Because I was driving 2+ hours that day, my lower back was hurting to the point I was in severe pain. I've never had this with my 135i with the sports seats and leather. I told him about this and he was shocked that I had such a bad experience.

[shawnhayes]

I owned Fords the majority of my life more than any other. They all became unrepairable (no, not kidding. Un-re-pairable No way to get the parts or fix the car).

In 1992, I converted to a Honda, and kept that for 11 years. Replaced A (one, single) water pump, one timing belt, tires, and ONE SET of front brakes. ONE SET. After that, Japanese cars (mostly made in the U.S.) dominated my experience. Reliability was awesome.

But, in 2014, when my Subaru high centered on snow on my way to work, I traded it in on a 2014 BMW X1. I've owned little since (two Volvo's).

BMW's are much more fun to drive. Easier/cheaper to maintain? Compared to my 2009 GT-R, absolutely. Compared to my 1992 Honda Civic CX? No. But, compared to GM's/Fords/Kia/Hyundai, the reliability comparison is reasonable. Depends on what you want to drive, and how it FEELS, and does it fulfill your needs?

My BMW's DO. Perfect? Nah. But pretty damn good.

Shawn

[Kromans1]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I owned Fords the majority of my life more than any other. They all became unrepairable (no, not kidding. Un-re-pairable No way to get the parts or fix the car).

In 1992, I converted to a Honda, and kept that for 11 years. Replaced A (one, single) water pump, one timing belt, tires, and ONE SET of front brakes. ONE SET. After that, Japanese cars (mostly made in the U.S.) dominated my experience. Reliability was awesome.

But, in 2014, when my Subaru high centered on snow on my way to work, I traded it in on a 2014 BMW X1. I've owned little since (two Volvo's).

BMW's are much more fun to drive. Easier/cheaper to maintain? Compared to my 2009 GT-R, absolutely. Compared to my 1992 Honda Civic CX? No. But, compared to GM's/Fords/Kia/Hyundai, the reliability comparison is reasonable. Depends on what you want to drive, and how it FEELS, and does it fulfill your needs?

My BMW's DO. Perfect? Nah. But pretty damn good.

Shawn

That's a really good assessment. Thank you!

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

My car is particularly at risk for high repair costs because it is a PHEV so I have both an internal combustion engine ("ICE") and a battery pack and electric motor. My solution to that is that I have GEICO as my insurer and I have its mechanical breakdown insurance. Essentially the same as BMW OEM warranty except that it has a $250/incident copay and it will cover me for up to a total of 7 years/100K miles.

I've wondered about the BMW hybrids... best of both worlds, or worst of both due to complexity and German electronics??? What has been your experience so far?

[Germanauto]

Always expect the worst once the mileage starts creeping beyond 40k.

This thread is going to be full of people who claim "my car has been perfect," but the reality is that stereotypes don't make themselves up. BMWs in my family have historically been troublesome. These are cars that were purchased new, garaged, and religiously serviced. All became complete headaches to own by the 70-80k mile mark. Regardless, you do see 10-15 year old BMWs running around on the road, so some do continue to chug along. I'd imagine F/G-chassis models are also more reliable than prior.

But if it isn't Japanese/Korean, or maybe a Porsche, don't expect long-term reliability.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I've wondered about the BMW hybrids... best of both worlds, or worst of both due to complexity and German electronics??? What has been your experience so far?

My BMW i8 was nearly flawless from purchase in 2015 until 2017 when I traded it in because it was too high profile.

Shawn

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

My BMW i8 was nearly flawless from purchase in 2015 until 2017 when I traded it in because it was too high profile.

Shawn

I would like to have a used 530e at some point in the future, but kinda' reluctant... we typically buy used ~10 year old cars, so the extra complexity in something is a concern.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I would like to have a used 530e at some point in the future, but kinda' reluctant... we typically buy used ~10 year old cars, so the extra complexity in something is a concern.

Understood. The old batteries are a toss up. If it's like Prius's there will be a lot of aftermarket support and a lot of DIY.

Shawn

[BobsM3Coupe]

The main reason BMW bought Mini Cooper many years ago was to have quick access to a FWD platform to sell entry level vehicles to compete with MB.
The difference in driving a FWD vs. a RWD chassis is huge. But many BMW owners don't even know if their vehicle is FWD or RWD. Sad but true fact.
But hopefully most people on BMW forums know the difference.

[Kromans1]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

The main reason BMW bought Mini Cooper many years ago was to have quick access to a FWD platform to sell entry level vehicles to compete with MB.
The difference in driving a FWD vs. a RWD chassis is huge. But many BMW owners don't even know if their vehicle is FWD or RWD. Sad but true fact.
But hopefully most people on BMW forums know the difference.

I believe the new X1 is sold only as all wheel drive.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by allinon72

German cars also have more engineering behind them, which adds to complexity of repairs that lead to higher labor costs.

This is not correct. BMW can't out-engineer Honda, or Toyota on their best day, and the reason that they will never match said companies in reliability (over the lifespan of the car, not some idiot JD Power initial quality crap) is because of their tolerances. Germans want every last ounce, and to get it they sacrifice reliability.

Originally Posted by allinon72

Every brand is going to have trade offs when it comes to ownership.

Not true either. Unless you're talking about Status. The RDX obliterates the X1 in every way a car like that should, except maybe the aesthetics, which is a subjective matter.

[mjr24]

I've had several new BMW's and I drive a solid 20k miles per year (if not more). I've really had no issues whatsoever with any of my cars. That being said, I don't really keep them past 50k miles.

[Kromans1]

Originally Posted by mjr24

I've had several new BMW's and I drive a solid 20k miles per year (if not more). I've really had no issues whatsoever with any of my cars. That being said, I don't really keep them past 50k miles.

We put very few miles per year on our cars. We wish from home and the elementary school is about three minutes away. We bought our 2019 Equinox new and right now it has 19,568 miles. But it's already had clutch and exhaust issues in the last two months.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by Kromans1

We put very few miles per year on our cars. We wish from home and the elementary school is about three minutes away. We bought our 2019 Equinox new and right now it has 19,568 miles. But it's already had clutch and exhaust issues in the last two months.

Clutch? You better get a second opinion on that...

[Kromans1]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Clutch? You better get a second opinion on that...

Thankfully the clutch thing was covered under warranty, juuuuuust in time.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

This is not correct. BMW can't out-engineer Honda, or Toyota on their best day, and the reason that they will never match said companies in reliability (over the lifespan of the car, not some idiot JD Power initial quality crap) is because of their tolerances. Germans want every last ounce, and to get it they sacrifice reliability.

Not true either. Unless you're talking about Status. The RDX obliterates the X1 in every way a car like that should, except maybe the aesthetics, which is a subjective matter.

It's not really controversial to say there are pros and cons to owning each brand, if you disagree with that I question your objectivity. Sounds like you're in the market for an RDX, which is fine but I would bet it's not nearly as fun to drive as an X1, as an example of trading some reliability for some driving character (even with FWD).

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by allinon72

It's not really controversial to say there are pros and cons to owning each brand, if you disagree with that I question your objectivity.

Yes, of course, but removing the subjectivity always shows clear winners.

Originally Posted by allinon72

Sounds like you're in the market for an RDX, which is fine but I would bet it's not nearly as fun to drive as an X1, as an example of trading some reliability for some driving character (even with FWD).

I'm not in the market at all, I have a 2015 that is objectively better in every significant way than the 2022 X3 I had as a loaner when my M2 was getting fixed. And it certainly wasn't more fun to drive. Trust me, I wanted it to be.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Always expect the worst once the mileage starts creeping beyond 40k.

This thread is going to be full of people who claim "my car has been perfect," but the reality is that stereotypes don't make themselves up. BMWs in my family have historically been troublesome. These are cars that were purchased new, garaged, and religiously serviced. All became complete headaches to own by the 70-80k mile mark. Regardless, you do see 10-15 year old BMWs running around on the road, so some do continue to chug along. I'd imagine F/G-chassis models are also more reliable than prior.

But if it isn't Japanese/Korean, or maybe a Porsche, don't expect long-term reliability.

Chug along... LOL.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

The main reason BMW bought Mini Cooper many years ago was to have quick access to a FWD platform to sell entry level vehicles to compete with MB.
The difference in driving a FWD vs. a RWD chassis is huge. But many BMW owners don't even know if their vehicle is FWD or RWD. Sad but true fact.
But hopefully most people on BMW forums know the difference.

Umm, when BMW bought Mini (Rover), the Mini platform was pretty much the antiquated holdover version from the original by Alec Issigonis. It was BMW that built the current MINI platform and the current shared platforms with BMW.

That being said, I find nothing endearing about the current X1, X2, or 2-series Grand Coupe. Now the original X1 on the E82 platform, was a car that anyone would enjoy driving.