[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

Yeah maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic but I think there is "something" to BMW V8s being less reliable than their I6

Personally I haven't had experience with it, only anecdotal and 2nd/3rd hand info and if you want to chaulk it up to small sample size that's fine but from that small sample the occurence of issues seems higher in the v8s even though far more of those cars were stock relative to the B series 4s and 6s. The turbo N series 4s and 6s were also not great reliability wise so I'm not saying the inlines are awesome and v8s bad exclusively.

You are correct over time. The I6 has always been the bread and butter for BMW. But speaking specifically to the M550 power plants, the data shows, and there is a large sample size now since 2018, that it doesn’t fall into a generic BMW V8 category. For the record, I’ve had my fair share of the problematic ones over the years.

I honestly don’t think the TU2/3 falls into the category of avoidance when debating a G30 540 vs an M550 and the user experience is some much more dramatic with the M550 that it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.

All good, just making a point.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

I'd venture a guess to say it's more about the lower sales volumes making it more difficult to justify investing in a new v8 platform.

Nah, the V8's are for BMW enthusiasts that are a glutton for punishment. Not your soccer mom walking into the dealer and buying an X5 40. Enthusiasts gravitate towards "new" platforms while soccer moms read the internet.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

You are correct over time. The I6 has always been the bread and butter for BMW. But speaking specifically to the M550 power plants, the data shows, and there is a large sample size now since 2018, that it doesn’t fall into a generic BMW V8 category. For the record, I’ve had my fair share of the problematic ones over the years.

I honestly don’t think the TU2/3 falls into the category of avoidance when debating a G30 540 vs an M550 and the user experience is some much more dramatic with the M550 that it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.

All good, just making a point.

Fair point

Honestly if I was in the market to buy a 5er now I'd be racking my brain over getting a 540xi or M550

I have a 520i because I bought it new in an extremely high tax jurisdiction so either the 40 or 50 new would have been a 150-200k USD car which made no sense but in used market now they're like well south of half that now the new gen 5er is out.

My gut feeling is the M550 will be more finicky but it might just be more "sensitive" whereas the B58 is a bit more idiot-proof

Some of the V8 issues I've heard of is probably simply a case of the car not being taken care of.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Nah, the V8's are for BMW enthusiasts that are a glutton for punishment. Not your soccer mom walking into the dealer and buying an X5 40. Enthusiasts gravitate towards "new" platforms while soccer moms read the internet.

Certainly

I don't think anyone just buys an M550 on a whim

Either you're one of those guys who just has to have the best thing to be flash and show off and buy the newest/greatest M5 .... or you need a lease special and get the 30i or pretty much everyone else buys the 40i.

The ONLY people who buy an M550i are the ones who want the "original" M5 formula but think the current M5 has focused too much on performance.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

Certainly

I don't think anyone just buys an M550 on a whim

Either you're one of those guys who just has to have the best thing to be flash and show off and buy the newest/greatest M5 .... or you need a lease special and get the 30i or pretty much everyone else buys the 40i.

The ONLY people who buy an M550i are the ones who want the "original" M5 formula but think the current M5 has focused too much on performance.

Honestly, the M550 is pretty much a unicorn that I doubt we will ever see again. I remember driving one for the first time and thinking holy fuck. That was it, I went on a mission to find the right spec. BMW has never offered a car with this much performance without it being a real ///M. I had E39's, E65's and F10's with "M Sport Package" which was 100% cosmetic with a V8 that performed like the B58. The M550 bumps up so close to the M5 that I still find it shocking that BMW offered it. Not saying it is an M5, it is not, but it has had to be close enough to sway a few sales from the M5.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

The ONLY people who buy an M550i are the ones who want the "original" M5 formula but think the current M5 has focused too much on performance.

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Honestly, the M550 is pretty much a unicorn that I doubt we will ever see again. I remember driving one for the first time and thinking holy fuck. That was it, I went on a mission to find the right spec. BMW has never offered a car with this much performance without it being a real ///M.

These points pretty much sum it up. I can't imagine getting rid of my M550i anytime soon unless it starts presenting recurring issues that either affect the ownership experience or become a money pit. And for the TU2/TU3 V8s, I don't think that is going to be too different from the typical BMW.

[dtriggr]

Just gonna throw this out there:

I just bought a 2019 M550i Xdrive and COULD NOT BE HAPPIER.

It puts a smile on everyone's face when they realize just how fast it is. It's luxurious, roomy (less in back) but I am really proud to drive/own it. Much more than my Jag.

I wanted a luxury, fast daily that I can stage 1 with some upgrades and get close to 700hp. I'm less than 2000$ in the hole on upgrades (intake, charge pipes, tune, bench unlock) and can achieve that for 400$ more. I think that's about the limit for what I can reliably push before more serious upgrades are necessary. I don't drive it like a maniac very often, so I see it lasting quite some time with regular service.

I can't speak to the understeer but it is slightly floatier than I expected. I haven't tracked it or really pushed cornering. Been too busy with work and came down with the flu over the past few weeks. Just wanted to add my insight as a new m550i owner

[aerof16]

I think you’ll be happy either way you go but I’ll share my experience.

I bought the 540i CPO because I needed a commuter car I could put a lot of miles on and already had a 700+ HP car in my garage, as well as my Wife’s SUV.

Fast fwd 100k miles and I am very happy with the 540i. Maybe a tad bit cheaper to maintain then the M550 and better gas mileage, plenty of power for commuting on the the interstate and thru the mountains.

That being said, if I was going to go down to 1 car, it’d probably be an M550 or M850. However, the 540 is so good that I’m not willing to trade it for a M550 - the M550 is fantastic but not quite a big enough step to get rid of my 540. Rather, I’m going to keep my 540 and buy an M5 or 997 911 for the fun car.

But, if I was buying right now and could only have one, it’d be the V8.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by aerof16

Rather, I’m going to keep my 540 and buy an M5 or 997 911 for the fun car.

What's your take on this 997 911 video by JayEmm?

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by aerof16

I think you’ll be happy either way you go but I’ll share my experience.

I bought the 540i CPO because I needed a commuter car I could put a lot of miles on and already had a 700+ HP car in my garage, as well as my Wife’s SUV.

Fast fwd 100k miles and I am very happy with the 540i. Maybe a tad bit cheaper to maintain then the M550 and better gas mileage, plenty of power for commuting on the the interstate and thru the mountains.

That being said, if I was going to go down to 1 car, it’d probably be an M550 or M850. However, the 540 is so good that I’m not willing to trade it for a M550 - the M550 is fantastic but not quite a big enough step to get rid of my 540. Rather, I’m going to keep my 540 and buy an M5 or 997 911 for the fun car.

But, if I was buying right now and could only have one, it’d be the V8.

It would be strange to add an M5 for your fun car with a 540 daily

I was in a very similar situation and just couldn't justify adding the F90 to the G30. As a replacement it kinda makes sense but my wife have me the choice to either replace the G30 with the F90 or spend what the money which the upgrade would have cost on an additional fun car and I snap called that and bought a Miata, about the most different thing possible to an M5.

I'm not saying go but an MX5. I am saying go for some variety.

It's like if you all you eat is casserole Monday to Friday and you get to have something different on the weekend... Don't have lasagna... Have Chinese or sushi or a steak or whatever


Fwiw I'd pick the Boxster /Cayman platform over the 911 for driving dynamics but a 997 is pretty dang cool too

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

It would be strange to add an M5 for your fun car with a 540 daily

I was in a very similar situation and just couldn't justify adding the F90 to the G30. As a replacement it kinda makes sense but my wife have me the choice to either replace the G30 with the F90 or spend what the money which the upgrade would have cost on an additional fun car and I snap called that and bought a Miata, about the most different thing possible to an M5.

I'm not saying go but an MX5. I am saying go for some variety.

It's like if you all you eat is casserole Monday to Friday and you get to have something different on the weekend... Don't have lasagna... Have Chinese or sushi or a steak or whatever


Fwiw I'd pick the Boxster /Cayman platform over the 911 for driving dynamics but a 997 is pretty dang cool too

It’s funny, I’m in the market for an F90, sometimes am more sure about picking one up than other times, but I think if the right car came to me, I’d get it and keep my M550. My girlfriend thinks I’m nuts to have what she sees as the same car in the garage. She has a small point, but my M550 has been so good to me and I’ve been so good to it, I hate to let it go.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

It would be strange to add an M5 for your fun car with a 540 daily

I was in a very similar situation and just couldn't justify adding the F90 to the G30. As a replacement it kinda makes sense but my wife have me the choice to either replace the G30 with the F90 or spend what the money which the upgrade would have cost on an additional fun car and I snap called that and bought a Miata, about the most different thing possible to an M5.

I'm not saying go but an MX5. I am saying go for some variety.

It's like if you all you eat is casserole Monday to Friday and you get to have something different on the weekend... Don't have lasagna... Have Chinese or sushi or a steak or whatever


Fwiw I'd pick the Boxster /Cayman platform over the 911 for driving dynamics but a 997 is pretty dang cool too

You and I have very similar choices. I just posted a couple of weeks ago on a thread arguing over the 540i vs M550i that one should just get a Miata if they really want a small, nimble, fun to drive driver's car instead of splitting hairs between two heavy 5 series car. I also am targeting the Cayman as my main choice (over the 911) as a replacement for my M550i 5-6 years from now.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by adhrp

You and I have very similar choices. I just posted a couple of weeks ago on a thread arguing over the 540i vs M550i that one should just get a Miata if they really want a small, nimble, fun to drive driver's car instead of splitting hairs between two heavy 5 series car. I also am targeting the Cayman as my main choice (over the 911) as a replacement for my M550i 5-6 years from now.

You can't go wrong with a Miata. If you have the driveway/parking space for it it's something everyone should have in the their life if even for a short time.

I think the 4th gen MX5 will go down in history as a car that's as worthy of praise as the S2000, especially the ND2 when the 2.0L got it's redline bumped to 7500rpm.

Speed is no longer even a top 10 factor in consideration for fun cars anymore I think. EVs have made straight line speed so accessible that it's kinda meaningless to look at any petrol car under that particular lens.

In basically every single measurable and even unmeasurable way a 981 is gonna be a better choice than a Miata but the Miata is just so accessible and represents an idea that so few have managed to achieve. An affordable dedicated sports car that was designed with fun as it's sole objective.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

It’s funny, I’m in the market for an F90, sometimes am more sure about picking one up than other times, but I think if the right car came to me, I’d get it and keep my M550. My girlfriend thinks I’m nuts to have what she sees as the same car in the garage. She has a small point, but my M550 has been so good to me and I’ve been so good to it, I hate to let it go.

Don't let it go

Is it possible to do some type of short term rental or perhaps take over a lease that's about to mature ?

I can't say I agree with your choice (your girlfriend and I are of the exact same mind here) but life is too short for regrets. There are certainly ways to experience/try it out without full on commitment of replacing your M550.

[aerof16]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

It would be strange to add an M5 for your fun car with a 540 daily

I was in a very similar situation and just couldn't justify adding the F90 to the G30. As a replacement it kinda makes sense but my wife have me the choice to either replace the G30 with the F90 or spend what the money which the upgrade would have cost on an additional fun car and I snap called that and bought a Miata, about the most different thing possible to an M5.

I'm not saying go but an MX5. I am saying go for some variety.

It's like if you all you eat is casserole Monday to Friday and you get to have something different on the weekend... Don't have lasagna... Have Chinese or sushi or a steak or whatever


Fwiw I'd pick the Boxster /Cayman platform over the 911 for driving dynamics but a 997 is pretty dang cool too

I’m actually not looking for driving dynamics or anything - just looking for a fun car to cruise around in with my son with a bit of cool factor and a third pedal. Always wanted a 911 and 996/997 when I was younger and something about the older generations and simplicity is really appealing to me lately. You know, minus the IMS bearing and bore scoring issues haha.

And for the M5, I’ve been looking at E39s (same reason as above). Also kind of considering an F10 but haven’t driven a manual F10 yet.

Point for me is, my G30 is a 2017 with 120k miles. It’s only worth maybe $15k. Worth so much more to me to just keep it a I’ve maintained it myself and it’s in excellent condition and is the perfect third car for when my fun car is up in the air in my garage.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

Thanks. I replied in a combined post, below. Just curious, what would your choice then be for a speed, luxury/comfort, reliability, and understatement?

My situation is different from yours, but on 2/13/25 I picked up an 2022 M550i as my daily driver choice.

I also considered an M340i and felt it was a little too small inside for my tastes. I also test drove a Lucid AIR, and a BMW iX M50 as the lease payments would be about the same as the purchase payments on a M550i. I did look at some 760's to own a V12....

Bottom line, the M550i was the right size and fun level for me. Doesn't have the M tax. I just can't fall in love with electrics even though I'm the perfect candidate for one, home owner, works from home, and short drives. The electric's other than tremendous acceleration just aren't that fun to drive, don't make me excited.

I ruled out a 760, as I own a RAM 3500 mega cab as my second vehicle. I don't want another battleship sized vehicle. Its hard to park, being cautious in parking lots. I also live in the Houston area and visit customers in high rises with parking garages, and well smaller is better when in an urban environment. I can't take the truck in a lot of parking garages/lots, so I wanted something smaller.

I'm not opposed to a 540i. But it wasn't much of a cost savings when finding one equipped with the features i wanted. M-sport, executive, ventilated / massaging seats, ceramic controls, parking assistant plus, dynamic handling package. Basically 540i's with those features are ~the same price as an M550i. Its a lot easier to find a loaded m550i so there was more choice than a loaded 540i. Most 540i's are fairly basic and that's fine depending on your tastes.

If your looking for a sports car, the M550i is not quite that, its a sports / luxury cruiser. If you want sports I'd probably recommend a good 911 purchased from a current owner. I'm not much of a vette person but they look good to me, is that hair growing out of my ears now, lol?

If electric I liked the Lucid and the ix M50. Tesla is fine if you want a less expensive option, or a good used model S plaid. But Tesla's build quality is kinda trash.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by aerof16

I’m actually not looking for driving dynamics or anything - just looking for a fun car to cruise around in with my son with a bit of cool factor and a third pedal. Always wanted a 911 and 996/997 when I was younger and something about the older generations and simplicity is really appealing to me lately. You know, minus the IMS bearing and bore scoring issues haha.

And for the M5, I’ve been looking at E39s (same reason as above). Also kind of considering an F10 but haven’t driven a manual F10 yet.

Point for me is, my G30 is a 2017 with 120k miles. It’s only worth maybe $15k. Worth so much more to me to just keep it a I’ve maintained it myself and it’s in excellent condition and is the perfect third car for when my fun car is up in the air in my garage.

An F10 will be an absolute hoon.

How old is your son ?

An MX5 won't be as cool as some of the flashier stuff but hey, it's so cheap you can get it on top of an F10 or 997 or 996 too =)

[aerof16]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

An F10 will be an absolute hoon.

How old is your son ?

An MX5 won't be as cool as some of the flashier stuff but hey, it's so cheap you can get it on top of an F10 or 997 or 996 too =)

He’s 6. Loves hanging out with me and cruising in the cars or working on them. Has his own creeper, tool box, etc.. Last fun car was a 6-speed Hellcat (say what you will, that car was fun!).

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

This is all helpful, though there seems to be a debate about 550 understeer. I hear you Neusser. Afterall, the 550 is like a 540 with 6 bags of concrete on the hood (350lbs extra, presumably most in front). But I can't buy the idea that BMW engineers would not take care of that. It must drive a bit different than the 540 for sure, but I'm inclined toward Joe's comments and think that understeer is not present. It's just a different steer, probably. (And, if I want a nimble drive on twisty backroads - not many where I live in the US - I can still use my E92.) Having said that, my senses say that, overall, the 540 is the awesome car to get.

But... I need to be honest and admit that the 550's different power category and the <4s accel put a spell on and could bend my rational thoughts. Given that they're all equally luxurious, my only criteria here is reliability. I can deal with purchase cost, I can deal with marginally higher maintenance costs (I can also live with non-essential gadgets breaking in a 750), but I can't deal with being stranded for breakdowns and with costly repairs.

This is where Castle says $3500 for a 550 headlight... Meanwhile, I did also read your linked post where you don't appear to list a lot of issues, although you owned a slightly different engine setup (2016 vs 2018). Joe says 550 SAME RELIABLE as 540. It's not a very big deal but it's unclear whether the expansion tank and injector protection issue has a mitigation (perhaps just underfill a little?). I read about the 540 coolant loss/evaporation and it didn't seem like a significant issue.
Is there anything on the 750, other than non-essential gadgets, to make it less reliable than the 550? Out of the 550-750-850 choice, the 750 seems to be the least expensive to buy.

I'll just have to get way more educated about reliability here. As I said, I'm drawn to the power but I'm very anxious not to end up with a money pit and highway strander. I remain 51/49 split between the 540 and a '50, and any extra wisdom and experience would always help.

Take both for a spin. The difference is very noticible.

The problem with the 550 is that it didn't get the upgrades the M5 got, but it has all of the weight. Both cars are unbalanced, but the 550 will transition to heavy understeer at about 7-8/10. The front tires are too narrow and the axle/track not as wide as on the M5. I personally would prefer even an 850 (for back road blasts) over a (standard) M5 for this reason. The 550 also has AWD and a softish setup, both of which exacerbate the understeer.

The 540 is much more neutral. A good hoon on a backroad will clear things up rather quickly. Plus if you get the M-Sport brakes on the 540, they are the same size as those on the 550, but work even better on the lighter car.

[aerof16]

Originally Posted by adhrp

What's your take on this 997 911 video by JayEmm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BCEEpgyP8o

Didn’t watch much of that but skipped through some and seems that I probably draw the same conclusions as him.

My big drawback with older 911s like the 997 is that, a nice one that isn’t a garage queen, is still $50-$60k and you don’t really get much car compared to what that money would get you today. They aren’t fast, they don’t have much tech, and at the end of the day they’re still 15-20 year old cars. A nice 996 C4S can be had between $30-$40k.

I’ve been looking for C4S models, they share the same wide hips in the rear as the Turbos, but all you really get is the classic looks and old school mechanical feel. Definitely cool but somewhat unimpressive for the money.

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by Lucian009

This is all helpful, though there seems to be a debate about 550 understeer. I hear you Neusser. Afterall, the 550 is like a 540 with 6 bags of concrete on the hood (350lbs extra, presumably most in front).

350Lbs seems excessive. That’s more than the weight of dry B58 motor and it would be illogical to think the N63 weighs twice the weight of a B58. Maybe 200lbs but even that seems excessive.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by choppedliver

350Lbs seems excessive. That’s more than the weight of dry B58 motor and it would be illogical to think the N63 weighs twice the weight of a B58. Maybe 200lbs but even that seems excessive.

M550 EU "Leergewicht" 1885 kg, with 55% over the front axle= 1036

540i EU "Leergewicht" of 1670 kg, with 52% over the front axle (wagon is 50/50, ofc)= 868 kg

A difference of 168 kg or 370 pounds.

Now consider (again) that both cars run the same track and tire sizes.

For the former: Do I hear the sound of understeer?