[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

^This. It's frightening to me how many people pull trailered loads that have no business doing so. I'm not saying "chassis" is that person, but so many don't understand that if your trailer doesn't have full size tires, they aren't designed for highway use.

Everything about trailering is terrifying when applied to the general public. The amount of times I see a truck pulling a trailer way bigger than it should, at speeds way higher than it should, with way wrong loading, way wrong angle, probably a massive amount of tongue weight, and zero common sense is insane. Either either beat up yard service trucks pulling loads their trucks couldn't safely pull when new, or jacked up trucks without the like 18" drop hitch they really need.

That's not even getting into semi trucks and the dubious world of retreaded tires. Who knows how old the cores on a semi truck's tires are, lol. Probably older than 5 years...

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Everything about trailering is terrifying when applied to the general public. The amount of times I see a truck pulling a trailer way bigger than it should, at speeds way higher than it should, with way wrong loading, way wrong angle, probably a massive amount of tongue weight, and zero common sense is insane. Either either beat up yard service trucks pulling loads their trucks couldn't safely pull when new, or jacked up trucks without the like 18" drop hitch they really need.

That's not even getting into semi trucks and the dubious world of retreaded tires. Who knows how old the cores on a semi truck's tires are, lol. Probably older than 5 years...

The times when I do the most aggressive "get me the fk outta here" passing on the highway is when I end up next to these fools.

Around here its usually trailer campers that are the worst offenders, and that season where I see them often as you describe is just upon us.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's bullshit. Paul died because he had a buddy with more ego and money than driving skills. Ego and showing off in a notoriously hard to handle car is what got Paul killed, not old tires.

Many of your statements make the world seem black and white, when in fact it's almost entirely gray. These two are no exception.

The reality is that it's highly likely that it was just as much the combination of the inherent design flaws of the Carrera GT + old tires that led to Paul's death as it was Roger's inability to handle a notoriously twitchy car at 90 mph. And in fact, Porsche reached an undisclosed settlement with Meadow Walker for the seatbelt that Paul was unable to release for nearly a full minute and a half until he died due to no oxygen/fire. The coroner's report showed that his non-fire-related injuries were survivable.

Put another way, had the exact same accident happened in a Honda Accord of the same year, the overwhelming probability is that they would both still be with us today.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by NSXR

Many of your statements make the world seem black and white, when in fact it's almost entirely gray. These two are no exception.

The reality is that it's highly likely that it was just as much the combination of the inherent design flaws of the Carrera GT + old tires that led to Paul's death as it was Roger's inability to handle a notoriously twitchy car at 90 mph. And in fact, Porsche reached an undisclosed settlement with Meadow Walker for the seatbelt that Paul was unable to release for nearly a full minute and a half until he died due to no oxygen/fire. The coroner's report showed that his non-fire-related injuries were survivable.

Put another way, had the exact same accident happened in a Honda Accord of the same year, the overwhelming probability is that they would both still be with us today.

Had the same situation happened in an Accord, they wouldn't have crashed because Roger wouldn't have been going as fast or lost control as easily. And if he did, it probably wouldn't have caught fire. And if it somehow did, Paul could have just undone his seatbelt as you mentioned.

The tires didn't kill anyone, the driver's inability to control the car did.

[G30M]

6 to 10 years is when you change it, depending on how it's been aged. garaged, 10 years. outside in extreme 4 seasons, 6 years. and permutations somewhere in between.

[William Turner]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Had the same situation happened in an Accord, they wouldn't have crashed because Roger wouldn't have been going as fast or lost control as easily. And if he did, it probably wouldn't have caught fire. And if it somehow did, Paul could have just undone his seatbelt as you mentioned.

The tires didn't kill anyone, the driver's inability to control the car did.

I read thru the thread and understand the origin of most of the generalizations posted regarding tire aging with one big exception - I would assume, but perhaps there is a real expert that can comment, that there is a big difference in the way the various different compounds used in making tires age. Especially the compounds used in the ultra high performance tires where the compounds are much softer and stickier to generate much higher limits of adhesion than the more typical general use tires. These ultra high performance tires harden and change as they age with a dramatic change in the traction and cornering forces they generate and the way they behave at the limit.

I personally had an experience some years ago with six year old Michelin PS2's on the BMW 2000 M Roadster I had at the time. I drove the car about a 1000 miles a year so there was still lots of thread and no visible signs of deterioration. The car was always garaged with tire covers in addition to a car cover, and tire protectant applied frequently. On a Sunday canyon drive on a road I was very familiar with and no traffic in sight I began pushing hard. Going into a corner at a speed I feel sure I was comfortable in the past, I lost rear end with no warning I tried to catch it, but could not and spun into the curb. No harm to me , but two damaged wheels and rear suspension damage.

The point of this is that in crash of the Porsche Carrera GT discussed in previous posts in this thread, I believe that 10 year old tires had a limit of adheasion far below what it was when they were new.

Once again I would love to hear from someone knowledgeable about the various tire compounds and the differences in how they age. I am a firm believer high performance tires probably have a much shorter life during which they can deliver the performance they were designed for.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by William Turner

Once again I would love to hear from someone knowledgeable about the various tire compounds and the differences in how they age. I am a firm believer high performance tires probably have a much shorter life during which they can deliver the performance they were designed for.

ages with oxygen in the air, extreme heat, and extreme cold.

garaged with clingwrap is the only 100% antiageing.

snow tires lose 50% of their snow abilities within 2 years when tested.

if you are worried you'd change your tires at 5 years regardless. i'm worried but i don't drive at the 100% limit on public roads. probably 30% of the limit of my ultra high performance tires. seriously.

if i were to track my 6 year old tires at the limit i would not do that. but under the limit, sure why not.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by William Turner

I read thru the thread and understand the origin of most of the generalizations posted regarding tire aging with one big exception - I would assume, but perhaps there is a real expert that can comment, that there is a big difference in the way the various different compounds used in making tires age. Especially the compounds used in the ultra high performance tires where the compounds are much softer and stickier to generate much higher limits of adhesion than the more typical general use tires. These ultra high performance tires harden and change as they age with a dramatic change in the traction and cornering forces they generate and the way they behave at the limit.

I personally had an experience some years ago with six year old Michelin SP2's on the BMW 2000 M Roadster I had at the time. I drove the car about a 1000 miles a year so there was still lots of thread and no visible signs of deterioration. The car was always garaged with tire covers in addition to a car cover, and tire protectant applied frequently. On a Sunday canyon drive on a road I was very familiar with and no traffic in sight I began pushing hard. Going into a corner at a speed I feel sure I was comfortable in the past, I lost rear end with no warning I tried to catch it, but could not and spun into the curb. No harm to me , but two damaged wheels and read suspension damage.

The point of this is that in crash of the Porsche Carrera GT discussed in previous posts in this thread, I believe that 10 year old tires had a limit of adheasion far below what it was when they were new.

Once again I would love to hear from someone knowledgeable about the various tire compounds and the differences in how they age. I am a firm believer high performance tires probably have a much shorter life during which they can deliver the performance they were designed for.

I agree with almost all of this. The only part I don't agree with is the shorter lifespan thing... Sorta. I don't performance tires age out faster, but rather you notice it more. And that makes people want rid of those tires, because they're not ready for that grip level

IMO, say you're driving an f150 with tires with 100k mile warranty. They're gonna be rock hard from day 1, so you know you're going to have that level of grip. If they age out 10 years, they're still rock hard, probably a little harder than new, but you're not likely to ever push the vehicle to that point. The same goes for boring commuter cars, and 99% of NPCs on the roads.

That said, if you're a driver, you should be able to make it work. One of my favorite set of tires ever was a set of aged out Bridgestone 760s I had on my C4 when I first bought it. They were old, but plenty of tread and in great shape. They were hard as rocks though, which made the whole car way more fun. I could light up almost at will, slide it around all over the place, and the lower grip level made it a BLAST to drive even at lower speeds. I replaced those with a set of very sticky falkens and decided I had ruined the car, to the point that I bought another set of wheels and super cheap federal tires to try to get less grip on the car. It helped, but it didn't live up to the greatness that those super old Bridgestones were.

It all boils down to abilities and grip. Old tires have less grip. If you have the ego to not go nuts, and the capabilities to drive the car with less grip, you'll be fine. If you're a low self esteem type who has to drive like you're auditioning for the fast & the furious, and/or you're just not very good/trained, you're going to want to give yourself as much tire grip as you can.

[Donatello.]

I guess I don't care because I have had front tires for my Hellcat sitting for 2 years or so now. Last year (August) and took them with me for my annual inspection appt expecting to have them swap them out and they refused because they were afraid of damaged my rims. I go to this place every year. To be fair, I do have 20x10 aftermarket rims on the front.

They didn't think their machine could do it and did not want to damage them. I appreciate that vs just doing it & oops, of course.

Then I just got lazy and they have been sitting lol. I really should just call the local Porsche dealer and see if they will do it

[Grease23]

This thread has a high concentration of bad advice.

[spazzyfry123]

I swapped tires from one set of wheels to another set of wheels just this past weekend. These are 7 year old tires with some tread life left for an old pickup. Discount Tire brought it to my attention that they're in their later years of life, but that they recommend replacement by 10 years.

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by Grease23

This thread has a high concentration of bad advice.

Welcome to the internet.

[ShocknAwe]

Lots of varied discussion. I'll continue to replace between 4-6 years or any sign of non-tread wear.

Tires are the most important connection to you and the road. Same view of importance as fresh oil in the engine.

[///M4Lou]

Originally Posted by G30M

6 to 10 years is when you change it, depending on how it's been aged. garaged, 10 years. outside in extreme 4 seasons, 6 years. and permutations somewhere in between.

This^^

I've gotten 2-3 year old tires for less than half price on non-performance tires.

But yeah, 10 years is too old. Six years, just have to vet them.

[Katsunaka]

I work in a commercial tire shop. So my post is based off that experience.

DOT has no age related requirement. However, most guys replace em in the 2-4 year area depending on mileage anyway. Semi tires only really last about 100-200k miles.

Most RV's replace tires at 5 years regardless of wear, tread depth or anything. It's age for RV's not mileage.

Personally beyond 5 years and I'll replace em. Just me though.

[T.R.S.]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Tires are the most important connection to you and the road. Same view of importance as fresh oil in the engine.

Braking distance pretty much always increases as tread depth decreases, so after a few 32nds of tread wear should replace just to make sure in case?

[T.R.S.]

Originally Posted by M4Lou

This^^

I've gotten 2-3 year old tires for less than half price on non-performance tires.

But yeah, 10 years is too old. Six years, just have to vet them.

At 10 years, yeah I'd replace. In the 6-8 year range know what you're looking at and consider how you treated them, or trust an opinion besides somebody that's eager to just sell you a new set.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by T.R.S.

Braking distance pretty much always increases as tread depth decreases, so after a few 32nds of tread wear should replace just to make sure in case?

Sarcasm noted. Braking distance should be consistent once the release coat is worn through and wear is within the first 50% or so of the tread. Depending on compound the dry performance may improve as the tread wears closer to semi-slick.

Cheers.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by T.R.S.

Braking distance pretty much always increases as tread depth decreases, so after a few 32nds of tread wear should replace just to make sure in case?

if you are triggering ABS (ie max braking) every day then yes you should change tires every 2 years.

if you mean wet braking then it falls off the cliff at 3mm (continental did a test it's on youtube).

for the majority of people, we use about 20-50% the performance of a high performance tire, so we are able to drive without crashing on 5 year old tires.

if you want to unlock 100% of the tire performance 100% of the time i suggest you change it every 5000kms or 6 months whichever comes first. once the oxygen reacts with the rubber you can't do qualifying laps anymore. chuck it away or use it for drifting.

waiting for them trolls to respond with some clever statements...

[G30M]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Depending on compound the dry performance may improve as the tread wears closer to semi-slick.

Cheers.

those who track their cars will say it's untrue in terms of high performance tire. the semislick aged tire is less grippy than a new set with all its tread blocks. whether it works with non high performance touring tires i'm not sure.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by G30M

those who track their cars will say it's untrue in terms of high performance tire. the semislick aged tire is less grippy than a new set with all its tread blocks. whether it works with non high performance touring tires i'm not sure.

Not talking about actual semi-slicks and it depends entirely on the compound and company making the tire. So, yes? And, also no.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Not talking about actual semi-slicks and it depends entirely on the compound and company making the tire. So, yes? And, also no.

I know. Let's make it clearer. A worn to near semi slick road tyre is no match to brand new road tyre.