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      07-10-2025, 06:23 PM   #67
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Sucks such a beautiful P car got wrecked by that M2. Glad all are safe!!!!!!
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      07-10-2025, 06:30 PM   #68
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With no question the M2 is at fault. Porsche driver let off the accelerator getting close to the M2, Porsche attempts to pass and M2 moves to the left with no blinkers. M2 needed to use his mirrors.

Better yet everyone is alive and well thank God !
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      07-10-2025, 06:40 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Watching the video again since there was a mention the M2 driver was "moving" out of the way. I see no evidence of this. The couple of "corners" leading up to the incident showed the M2 driver was using the typical line going into the corners apexing where the rumble strips are. Granted the M2 driver's line was a bit sloppy with the steering corrections.

Had I been following the M2, I would have chosen to pass on the outside with the speed differential that was present between the M2 and the Porsche. Or just waited for a better opportunity to pass.

The rule at the track days I go to is the rider in front of me has the right of way. It's on me as the faster rider overtaking the slower rider to do so cleanly. If we're both converging into the same spot in the corner such as apexing it and I'm not fully passed the slower rider by the time we're there, it's my fault. Even if I had a portion of the wheel ahead of the slower rider, it's still my fault. I've been on track where I had to figure out a pass on a rider that was all over the track without a consistent line. I observe for a few corners and pick where it's safe to pass based on what I have seen as the tendency of the rider. If the rider is that unpredictable on the track, usually the corner workers or the on track coaches will already know about it and will be addressing it with that rider. If not, I have the ability to report it to either course control or my on track coach. Whether this is how the Ring works, I don't know.

According to the guy in the second video, the Nurburgring is considered a public road & laws applicable to public roads apply to it. Based on that, the BMW is at fault & the guy in the video said at best, 50/50. And I got the impression he didn't think that was a good bet.
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      07-10-2025, 07:00 PM   #70
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I think the M2 being RHD played a factor in this.

By the letter of the law on the ‘Ring the M2 looks to be at fault but at most North American track days you overtake after the car in front signals clear.

If that M2 driver is found to be at 100% fault he’s financially screwed. He’ll likely be on the hook for track repairs, the Porsche cost, AND his own M2…
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      07-10-2025, 07:23 PM   #71
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The Porsche was way past the BMW blind spot and should’ve been easily spotted by the BMW as evidenced by location of impact on side of Porsche… it wasn’t Porsche onto side of BMW
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      07-10-2025, 07:31 PM   #72
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I've never driven on a racetrack before so I don't know the official rules.

In my humble view, this is 100% Porsche fault.

If it deems to be BMW's fault, then I'll cross off Nurburgring off my bucket list.

It makes no sense to me.
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      07-10-2025, 07:34 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Germany View Post
You can say this is M2 driver's fault but I say either 50-50 (because 911 got kind of T boned) or more importantly 911 driver's fault because he chose very bad spot to pass the M2. It is at corner and if you look at the picture more closely you can see M2 was already entered the curve.
You can see how M2 is going.
Exactly. Sorry for my ignorance (because I'm not professional) but BMW is clearly in the proper apex lane, and Porsche is just trying to jam it through.
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      07-10-2025, 07:36 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dL. View Post
Exactly. Sorry for my ignorance (because I'm not professional) but BMW is clearly in the proper apex lane, and Porsche is just trying to jam it through.
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      07-10-2025, 07:59 PM   #75
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In my area, I’ve noticed a lot of BMW drivers who don’t use their turn signals, drive aggressively, and run people off the road

. It’s easy to blame Porsche drivers for these incidents, but I don’t think that’s fair. I think it’s more likely that it’s a sloppy M2 driver who wasn’t paying attention to what he was doing. Regardless of the make of the car, it’s important for drivers to be cautious and follow traffic rules.
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      07-10-2025, 08:53 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenGT View Post
In my area, I’ve noticed a lot of BMW drivers who don’t use their turn signals, drive aggressively, and run people off the road
in my area they are called Ford Rangers
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      07-10-2025, 08:54 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dL. View Post
In my humble view, this is 100% Porsche fault.

If it deems to be BMW's fault, then I'll cross off Nurburgring off my bucket list.

It makes no sense to me.
apparently this 'track' is a public 2 lane, one way road. not that i know where the invisible 'lane' begins or ends, but if that's the case, then it's not 100% Porsche's fault
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      07-10-2025, 11:53 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G30M View Post
on Touristenfahrten days normal German road rules apply

track days have different rules
A lot of people seem to forget this.



This video, and countless other shenanigans, are why I avoid TF in the Summer. Unfortunately, TF has become wannabe NLS Qualifications mixed with Instagram/TikTok BS. They also need to limit the cars on track. It’s too crowded and drivers often have little regard outside of themselves.

I will only go in early Spring during the week or late in the Fall.

And yes, I watched Misha’s video explanation. I get it, but at the same time the spirit of TF has been destroyed the last ten or fifteen years. It’s way more of a chaotic track day than Opa rocking his Opel OPC with the Kinder in the back pushing him on for a fun 10+ minute lap.
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      07-11-2025, 12:04 AM   #79
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Porsche guy seems to be at fault.
At that speed, the M2 driver didn’t have enough time to react to Porsche trying to squeeze in during the corner apex turn. The Porsche came in from nowhere and caused the mess.

The Porsche driver took a risk but didn’t pay off.
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Last edited by buckybadger; 07-11-2025 at 12:05 AM..
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      07-11-2025, 12:07 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helmet91 View Post
This video, and countless other shenanigans, are why I avoid TF in the Summer. Unfortunately, TF has become wannabe NLS Qualifications mixed with Instagram/TikTok BS. They also need to limit the cars on track. It’s too crowded and drivers often have little regard outside of themselves.
.
completely agree, and yes, such a simple solution to limit the number of day passes. maybe even have time period sessions instead of day pass so you know how many are on track between a certain period + season pass. surely Germans can figure that out.

because as you said, 600 people all doing their quali lap at the same time will only result in crashes.
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      07-11-2025, 12:36 AM   #81
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Based on the video the M2 driver is at fault slow traffic always moved to the right giving the right of way of passing car.
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      07-11-2025, 12:57 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G30M View Post
completely agree, and yes, such a simple solution to limit the number of day passes. maybe even have time period sessions instead of day pass so you know how many are on track between a certain period + season pass. surely Germans can figure that out.

because as you said, 600 people all doing their quali lap at the same time will only result in crashes.
Limiting cars is easy. They already keep track of the number… simply lockout the entrance gate. Once a car exits, the gate can allow one car to swipe through, and so on.

Remember, you’re just dumping money into your account. Tapping your card as you go through the gate debits your account.

They’re not obligated to let you on the track or provide X number of laps. Honestly, I’d rather have a few weekends of traffic jams and slowdowns chase people off.
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      07-11-2025, 02:37 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenGT View Post
In my area, I’ve noticed a lot of BMW drivers who don’t use their turn signals, drive aggressively, and run people off the road

. It’s easy to blame Porsche drivers for these incidents, but I don’t think that’s fair. I think it’s more likely that it’s a sloppy M2 driver who wasn’t paying attention to what he was doing. Regardless of the make of the car, it’s important for drivers to be cautious and follow traffic rules.
Oh yea.. right... Just BMW drivers. 🙄
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      07-11-2025, 03:01 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ash_schwin View Post
Saw this video last night, amazing the level of engineering on both cars that allowed everyone to survive.
Too bad they can't engineer the foolishness out of humans.

A guy a week before this wasn't to lucky.
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      07-11-2025, 03:04 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G30M View Post
.... yes the rule says blinker but that's not always used. ...
There you go.
I've been going to The Ring every year since 2008 and I'm telling you, if someone doesn't blink to let me pass, I'm not taking any chances. There are no prizes to win (but stupid ones) so unless I am sure I was seen, I'll stay behind,
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      07-11-2025, 05:18 AM   #86
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BMW 80% fault: Unsafe lane change, failure to signal
Porsche 20% fault: Fail to yield
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      07-11-2025, 06:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Yes. The amazing level of safety engineering allowed both drivers to survive that crash.

As to the M2 not using blinkers, I may be the minority in this viewpoint. But the Porsche driver was in my eyes 100% at fault for the crash. Blinker use or not. But my track experience involves motorcycles and the track events I do if I were to make a similar attempt to pass as this Porsche driver did, I would be 100% at fault.

One guy wasnt paying attention. Wasnt following all the rules of the ring and took a right hand driver car to a left hand drive country. its always introducing more risks. He sat on the opposite side of where 911 guy sits, and didnt really double make sure to leave space. Porsche of course didnt need to go for it, this rule of no timed laps is there for a reason. Fast car, probably good driver to be driving it, but - right hand drive being passed on the left at high speed and in corner with guy not paying attention or not expecting to be passed - you got a bad combination of errors.

Im pretty sure the police in Germany will find the BMW driver ultimately at fault but with some mitigating circumstances. I certainly wouldnt blame Porsche driver never mind being 100% sure of it.

Whats most important they walk away and can now bicker about who pays for what, rather than you know, learn how to walk again or family writing obituaries. Just brused egos and engineers can be proud of making good cars. thank god all are alive and ok.
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      07-11-2025, 07:57 AM   #88
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OMG wow! that insane
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