[Boostmeister]

Originally Posted by Antec800

It looks like for the g60 m550/m560 it won’t get a v8 it should get a newer mild hybrid twin turbo i6, only the m5 to get the new s68

The 2023 M550i will get the twin turbo V8. Mine has entered the production queue.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Boostmeister

The 2023 M550i will get the twin turbo V8. Mine has entered the production queue.

Is the 2023 still a G30 though? Or is it a G60? Seems odd you would be able to begin building a G60 before anyone has actually seen one.

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Is the 2023 still a G30 though? Or is it a G60? Seems odd you would be able to begin building a G60 before anyone has actually seen one.

2023 is still the g30 LCI.

[BMW012]

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/07/03/b...details-rumor/

some news on the next M560e. Also they mention a 550ex?

[Boostmeister]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Is the 2023 still a G30 though? Or is it a G60? Seems odd you would be able to begin building a G60 before anyone has actually seen one.

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by Boostmeister

Attachment 2922321

wow seems like the cutoff in July is instant. Mine got built last week and it was still a 2022.

[scsfll]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I’m very much looking forward to the i5 to replace my 530e when the time comes to do so (I expect around 2026 or 2027).

I can’t really see a whole lot of downsides to going fully electric. Most of your concerns are baseless IMHO.

You wouldn’t need to charge all the time like you do for gas. You’d only need to charge away from home on a road trip. I’d imagine this will continue to be less and less of an issue over the next decade (the ICE 5-Series will be around for at least another generation in the G60). It will offer a lot of positive opportunities long term IMHO for everyone.

My 530e is not a full EV, but it costs me <$1 to fully charge my EV battery and that is equal to at least 2 gallons of gas which is ~$10-12 these days.

I expect BMW will deliver their DNA in their EVs. It won’t be a Tesla aimed at driving you around and taking the joy of driving away. Instead it will be a driver’s car utilizing the power and flexibility of an EV to re-imagine performance driving.

Lastly, the cars will truly last a long time! A fully electric 5 would probably only need wipers and tires for the first 100K miles…

The return rate of leased EV's in general back to ICE YTD is almost 50%.
If you enjoy "driving" your car you are like me and the probability of a full EV is 0%.
a minimal PHEV, possibly

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by scsfll

The return rate of leased EV's in general back to ICE YTD is almost 50%.
If you enjoy "driving" your car you are like me and the probability of a full EV is 0%.
a minimal PHEV, possibly

EVs are a pox on the planet. As are the technocrats pushing them.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Neusser

EVs are a pox on the planet. As are the technocrats pushing them.

Well slap my ass and call me Sally, I’m on your team for once.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Well slap my ass and call me Sally, I’m on your team for once.

Teams are for weaklings.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Teams are for weaklings.

More of a targeted alliance

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by scsfll

The return rate of leased EV's in general back to ICE YTD is almost 50%.
If you enjoy "driving" your car you are like me and the probability of a full EV is 0%.
a minimal PHEV, possibly

I love driving for sure and I'll keep my eyes open for what BMW does in the full EV space, especially with Neue Klasse. But I'm not swapping out my G30 anytime soon. 2026 or 2027 at the earliest. My 530e has been fantastic and car prices right now, including EVs, are far too elevated for my liking.

I never lease so I don't keep up with that flow.

I could see leasing an EV being a challenge in some ways for a variety of reasons. For instance, you might not install an EV charger in your house since the car is a glorified rental. You might also want to maximize "free" charging as I see BMW owners doing at the nearby mall with their iX and i5s. Which can get a bit boring sitting around charging even when it is free I think.

Since I had my new house fully setup for EVs I'm ready on that front. I have both an 80A and a 20A EV charger so I can pull up 100A across 2 EVs @ 240V at home.

[TEF]

Curious how time can change our views on everything, including this subject. Two years have passed since this thread began and how things seem so different now. For example, the general opinion towards full-electric cars has turned negative. Even the much-touted Tesla seems to be struggling as more people experience range anxiety and public charger issues. BMW has stopped offering PHEV/gas models in the US and pure gas models continue to be selling strong despite government incentives for electric vehicles.

I was briefly interested in the PHEV/Gas X3e, but battery problems experienced by some owner and its paltry range soon changed my mind. Also, once the 32 miles of electric range is exhausted, gas mileage is virtually the same as a standard X3. So why pay a premium for the "e"?

I guess a mentioned of the 550 is necessary at this point. There is no doubt this engine appeals to only a fraction of BMW owners who can appreciate its performance, but this seems to be offset by its fragile reputation. All things considered, it's a credit to BMW to continue its support in the face of increased CAFE and emission pressures.

The current flavor of the day seems to be none of the choices above, but the plain old hybrid as introduced by Toyota in the mid-90's. Over the years, it has seen improvements and the current Prius is in huge demand. The concept is hard to beat: no home chargers or range anxiety and decent mileage not dependent on fully-charged batteries. A hybrid's smaller batteries do not grow a vehicle into a four-ton behemoth and allow for the use of standard tires and chassis. Hard to believe this car for geeks has outlasted so many other designs with its genius.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by TEF

Curious how time can change our views on everything, including this subject. Two years have passed since this thread began and how things seem so different now. For example, the general opinion towards full-electric cars has turned negative. Even the much-touted Tesla seems to be struggling as more people experience range anxiety and public charger issues. BMW has stopped offering PHEV/gas models in the US and pure gas models continue to be selling strong despite government incentives for electric vehicles.

I was briefly interested in the PHEV/Gas X3e, but battery problems experienced by some owner and its paltry range soon changed my mind. Also, once the 32 miles of electric range is exhausted, gas mileage is virtually the same as a standard X3. So why pay a premium for the "e"?

I guess a mentioned of the 550 is necessary at this point. There is no doubt this engine appeals to only a fraction of BMW owners who can appreciate its performance, but this seems to be offset by its fragile reputation. All things considered, it's a credit to BMW to continue its support in the face of increased CAFE and emission pressures.

The current flavor of the day seems to be none of the choices above, but the plain old hybrid as introduced by Toyota in the mid-90's. Over the years, it has seen improvements and the current Prius is in huge demand. The concept is hard to beat: no home chargers or range anxiety and decent mileage not dependent on fully-charged batteries. A hybrid's smaller batteries do not grow a vehicle into a four-ton behemoth and allow for the use of [...]

A few years ago, Toyota's CEO was ridiculed for not committing to EVs and doubling down on hybrids while everyone else was jumping on the EV bandwagon like lemmings. I'm sure he's having the last laugh now.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by TEF

Curious how time can change our views on everything, including this subject. Two years have passed since this thread began and how things seem so different now. For example, the general opinion towards full-electric cars has turned negative. Even the much-touted Tesla seems to be struggling as more people experience range anxiety and public charger issues. BMW has stopped offering PHEV/gas models in the US and pure gas models continue to be selling strong despite government incentives for electric vehicles.

I was briefly interested in the PHEV/Gas X3e, but battery problems experienced by some owner and its paltry range soon changed my mind. Also, once the 32 miles of electric range is exhausted, gas mileage is virtually the same as a standard X3. So why pay a premium for the "e"?

I guess a mentioned of the 550 is necessary at this point. There is no doubt this engine appeals to only a fraction of BMW owners who can appreciate its performance, but this seems to be offset by its fragile reputation. All things considered, it's a credit to BMW to continue its support in the face of increased CAFE and emission pressures.

The current flavor of the day seems to be none of the choices above, but the plain old hybrid as introduced by Toyota in the mid-90's. Over the years, it has seen improvements and the current Prius is in huge demand. The concept is hard to beat: no home chargers or range anxiety and decent mileage not dependent on fully-charged batteries. A hybrid's smaller batteries do not grow a vehicle into a four-ton behemoth and allow for the use of standard tires and chassis. Hard to believe this car for geeks has outlasted so many other designs with its genius.

Trying to help a family member replacing their mid 2000’s era Prius, another Prius if not another Japanese hybrid is indeed a no brainer. Teslas, plugging in, etc are unnecessarily complicated, and in certain parts of the us, the hybrid is going to be cheaper to operate nevertheless, while being drama free and more reliable. I say this while being underwhelmed by the g90. But as a “get me from point a to b with minimal cost and fuss,” Toyota sure as hell has gotten it right.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Gautam

Trying to help a family member replacing their mid 2000’s era Prius, another Prius if not another Japanese hybrid is indeed a no brainer. Teslas, plugging in, etc are unnecessarily complicated, and in certain parts of the us, the hybrid is going to be cheaper to operate nevertheless, while being drama free and more reliable. I say this while being underwhelmed by the g90. But as a “get me from point a to b with minimal cost and fuss,” Toyota sure as hell has gotten it right.

Its crazy that after 30-40 years of competition, Ford and Chevy haven’t figured out the same level of consistent reliability as Toyota and Honda for the everyday, A to B, consumer vehicle.

You can run a Chevy 5.3L V8 for a couple hundred thousand miles, easy. But it cheapens that when they use the same shitty transmission for 20 years. Dumb stuff like that.

EV’s are here to stay. Tesla would exist without government intervention. But trying to fast track them becoming the whole market was always a terrible idea.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by TEF

Curious how time can change our views on everything, including this subject. Two years have passed since this thread began and how things seem so different now. For example, the general opinion towards full-electric cars has turned negative. Even the much-touted Tesla seems to be struggling as more people experience range anxiety and public charger issues. BMW has stopped offering PHEV/gas models in the US and pure gas models continue to be selling strong despite government incentives for electric vehicles.

I was briefly interested in the PHEV/Gas X3e, but battery problems experienced by some owner and its paltry range soon changed my mind. Also, once the 32 miles of electric range is exhausted, gas mileage is virtually the same as a standard X3. So why pay a premium for the "e"?

I guess a mentioned of the 550 is necessary at this point. There is no doubt this engine appeals to only a fraction of BMW owners who can appreciate its performance, but this seems to be offset by its fragile reputation. All things considered, it's a credit to BMW to continue its support in the face of increased CAFE and emission pressures.

The current flavor of the day seems to be none of the choices above, but the plain old hybrid as introduced by Toyota in the mid-90's. Over the years, it has seen improvements and the current Prius is in huge demand. The concept is hard to beat: no home chargers or range anxiety and decent mileage not dependent on fully-charged batteries. A hybrid's smaller batteries do not grow a vehicle into a four-ton behemoth and allow for the use of standard tires and chassis. Hard to believe this car for geeks has outlasted so many other designs with its genius.

BMW definitely hasn't softened its push for EVs. They are the second largest seller of EVs globally after Tesla believe it or not (in the luxury market). BMW is already profitable on EVs as well which most manufacturers are not. BMW is going full force on EVs and I don't see that stopping or slowing down.

But confounding the pundits, BMW’s strategy has paid off. The company sold 376,000 electric vehicles last year, including some under its Mini brand, a 75 percent increase from the previous year. In the luxury segment, BMW was second only to Tesla, which remained dominant with 1.8 million cars. Electric vehicles accounted for 15 percent of BMW sales in 2023, up from 9 percent the previous year.

The company’s growth comes as sales of electric vehicles have risen at a slower pace overall around the world. What is even more surprising is that BMW, unlike General Motors or Ford Motor, made a profit on the electric vehicles it sold.

Source: NY Times

I also wouldn't say BMW has killed off PHEVs. The new M5 is a PHEV. The PHEV 5-Series replacement hasn't launched yet, but that might not be due to them cancelling it off and more due to them slowly deciding which cars they roll out (as usual).

I still think the plug in hybrid is likely to be the predominant car model as America shifts away from ICE cars, but we shall see how it all shapes out. We're still early in this transition. Obviously, EVs are easier if you have a single family home where you can charge in your garage and/or turn the EV into a reliable backup power source during outages.

[scsfll]

Originally Posted by BMW012

no, no, no, no, no. please give us our v8s!

I have 60 days left until lease end of my ‘22 M550. I have decided to buy it out at $44k. No options. I love the car. It’s my 4th iteration and over 20th BMW.
I a stat on CNBC that stated 48% of EV lease returns result in lessee returning to ICE.

[TEF]

In the mid-90's, I was posted to the US Embassy Tokyo and lived in Japan for four years. During that time, I had the chance to visit Nagoya (the Detroit of Japan) and requested a visit to Toyota. Expecting a typical factory tour, in the Japanese tradition they hosted a small lunch for me at their offices. Since there was a language problem (I spoke virtually no Japanese), Toyota sent their former North America sales manager to join me. At that time the Prius had just been released for sale only in the Japanese market and we talked about the then radical concept of hybrid vehicles. I was told that Toyota understood the risk and was prepared to absorb a loss of $25,000/vehicle should sales not meet expectations. The company was pleasantly surprised that the loss was only $10,000 per car since sales were better than forecasted.

My point is that Toyota was prepared for an initial loss, but stuck to their vision and engineering skills. A bigger technical accomplishment than combining a battery with an electric motor - something that had been done in with the Baker Electric introduced at the time of the Model T. BTW, I don't own a Toyota, so I have no bias towards the brand.

[scsfll]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I’m very much looking forward to the i5 to replace my 530e when the time comes to do so (I expect around 2026 or 2027).

I can’t really see a whole lot of downsides to going fully electric. Most of your concerns are baseless IMHO.

You wouldn’t need to charge all the time like you do for gas. You’d only need to charge away from home on a road trip. I’d imagine this will continue to be less and less of an issue over the next decade (the ICE 5-Series will be around for at least another generation in the G60). It will offer a lot of positive opportunities long term IMHO for everyone.

My 530e is not a full EV, but it costs me <$1 to fully charge my EV battery and that is equal to at least 2 gallons of gas which is ~$10-12 these days.

I expect BMW will deliver their DNA in their EVs. It won’t be a Tesla aimed at driving you around and taking the joy of driving away. Instead it will be a driver’s car utilizing the power and flexibility of an EV to re-imagine performance driving.

Lastly, the cars will truly last a long time! A fully electric 5 would probably only need wipers and tires for the first 100K miles…

Im at the end of my 4th M550 progressive iteration going back the the Msport.
I will drive the 550e but even my friends at the dealership tell me it won’t be the same and I will end up buying my current one out.
The hybrid for 3@ miles and minimal HP is not worth it. BMW has used this to comply with federal regulations.
They are going to opt to pay the fine for not meeting government standards moving forward.

I would never plug it in just like the original X5e that I had for a loaner years ago.

In two years, if forced to keep this hybrid there will be a tax credit. They can’t give these away. 50% of EV owners revert to ICE cars when trading in.


There’s a place for a mix. Just not for everyone. Give me my new ICE version M550. If you DRIVE your car you want your paddles and transmission control.

[TEF]

In a perfect world, I'd buy two more BMW diesels to replace my existing X3 and 5 series once they're too old, but VW managed to poisoned the well on that.