[hooligan_F39]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The simple fact is that the American beer renaissance is built around hops. Sure, a couple of farm ales, confectioner sugar boosted Belgian-esque ales, and Kölsch and sours slip through, but 95% of the American craft movement is based on IPA's, Willamette and Chinook hops. To try to dance around that or say that we should ignore those makes this the equivalent of talking about fast cars, but leaving out Porsche because you never liked the Beetle.

And whiskey is great, and we have a thread about that. I'd actually like to try an Indian whiskey, but we can talk about it over there.

I would dispute those claims, honestly.

The craft beer renaissance is centered as much around stouts, especially barrel aged stouts, as it is IPAs.

Dark Lord, Hunahpu, Abyss, Abraxas, CBS, KBS, Bourbon County variants, every Jackie O's stout ever made, Stone's stout offerings, Bitches Brew plus World Wide Stout and its variants, Surly Darkness, Brooklyn's Black Chocolate, all the Prairie Bomb! variants, etc.

Further, who is saying ignore IPAs? I see people expressing opinions about what they prefer to drink...

[Red Bread]

Perhaps your opinion is skewed by your locale? As is mine. I've lived and travelled extensively in the Southwest, primarily Texas and Southern California. Stouts have almost no purchase in either of those. I'm guessing you're in the NE? I've honestly never heard of any of those outside of Bourbon County. Oops, and Brooklyn, who certainly wouldn't be craft.

Which is sort of the point of craft beer, isn't it? I worked in Frankfurt for years, a bit of a lost area in the beer world, but they didn't have any allegiance, so wheats, Marzens, Kölsch and ice beers were all fair game. I think the overall scope and scale of the US makes blanket statements, like IPA über alles, a bit misleading. But my regional experience has been that IPA is the kick off for nearly any new brewery, and to bring it back to P1et's earlier statement, most of them are truly awful.

But I'll also add that I'm a bit of a classicist when it comes to stouts and Porters and will stick to the English and Irish for those.

[hooligan_F39]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Perhaps your opinion is skewed by your locale? As is mine. I've lived and travelled extensively in the Southwest, primarily Texas and Southern California. Stouts have almost no purchase in either of those. I'm guessing you're in the NE? I've honestly never heard of any of those outside of Bourbon County. Oops, and Brooklyn, who certainly wouldn't be craft.

Which is sort of the point of craft beer, isn't it? I worked in Frankfurt for years, a bit of a lost area in the beer world, but they didn't have any allegiance, so wheats, Marzens, Kölsch and ice beers were all fair game. I think the overall scope and scale of the US makes blanket statements, like IPA über alles, a bit misleading. But my regional experience has been that IPA is the kick off for nearly any new brewery, and to bring it back to P1et's earlier statement, most of them are truly awful.

But I'll also add that I'm a bit of a classicist when it comes to stouts and Porters and will stick to the English and Irish for those.

No need to guess, it's right there in my profile. I live in NC and have since 2007, but I *did* grow up in the Midwest. We get lots of world-class stouts here in the Carolinas and they sell as well as any other style - Olde Hickory Event Horizon and Westbrook Mexican Cake as examples.

Our biggest and oldest currently running craft brewery in Charlotte is an exclusively German style brewery whose flagship beer is an altbier.

Brooklyn Brewing is definitely still a craft brewery according to industry standards, despite selling a ~25% stake to Kirin.

http://time.com/money/4530210/brookl...ut-craft-beer/

[Red Bread]

Okay, then I return to thinking of Ballast Point as a craft beer, even if it's from the dumbest city in the country.

[hooligan_F39]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Okay, then I return to thinking of Ballast Point as a craft beer, even if it's from the dumbest city in the country.

Ballast Point is not craft based on industry standards. They are wholly owned by Constellation now. The same goes for Goose Island (AB InBev) and, sadly, my beloved Founder's Brewing(Mahou San Miguel).

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by hooligan_clt

Ballast Point is not craft based on industry standards. They are wholly owned by Constellation now. The same goes for Goose Island (AB InBev) and, sadly, my beloved Founder's Brewing(Mahou San Miguel).

I get it, but Goose Island quality suffered after they were acquired, BP has yet to see that kind of drop off. I'm just holding out hope, regardless of definition.

And not to besmirch you with your southernly neighbors, but I used to work in both Carolinas, many years ago, and only recall Palmetto, which was not good at the time. I should probably revisit. My boss and I would usually just buy in a supply of ABT12 for any visit.

[hooligan_F39]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I get it, but Goose Island quality suffered after they were acquired, BP has yet to see that kind of drop off. I'm just holding out hope, regardless of definition.

And not to besmirch you with your southernly neighbors, but I used to work in both Carolinas, many years ago, and only recall Palmetto, which was not good at the time. I should probably revisit. My boss and I would usually just buy in a supply of ABT12 for any visit.

Fair point re: quality impact. I do still enjoy Sculpin and Victory at Sea very much.


Yes, the culture down here has changed A LOT - due in no small part to changing of laws surrounding brewing and allowable ABV for beer. In the not too distant past we in NC were capped at 6% ABV for beer, I think, despite being able to buy wine and liquor.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by hooligan_clt

Fair point re: quality impact. I do still enjoy Sculpin and Victory at Sea very much.


Yes, the culture down here has changed A LOT - due in no small part to changing of laws surrounding brewing and allowable ABV for beer. In the not too distant past we in NC were capped at 6% ABV for beer, I think, despite being able to buy wine and liquor.

TX relaxed their distribution laws and we only got an avalanche of awful beer out of it. You'd think with this many people, and the infusion of folks from south of the border, we could at least hash out some decent German beers. But no, just awful IPA's and a never ending parade of lagers.

[hooligan_F39]

German beers are typically lagers.


You've got Jester King! Not sure what other craft is going on in TX, though.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by hooligan_clt

German beers are typically lagers.


You've got Jester King! Not sure what other craft is going on in TX, though.

Well yeah, but not the tired parade of Budvar copies. I brew full mash and tend to gravitate to ales because of refrigeration issues in TX, but there are good lagers, but most Americans don't know about them.

[hooligan_F39]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Well yeah, but not the tired parade of Budvar copies. I brew full mash and tend to gravitate to ales because of refrigeration issues in TX, but there are good lagers, but most Americans don't know about them.

You need to visit Charlotte sometime. Old Meck is fantastic, altbier, pilsner, helles, couple of different hefes, maibock, bauern bock, etc.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by hooligan_clt

You need to visit Charlotte sometime. Old Meck is fantastic, altbier, pilsner, helles, couple of different hefes, maibock, bauern bock, etc.

One of my college roommates is moving back to Chapel Hill after being in Montreal and DC for too long. I'll likely get out that way soon.

[hooligan_F39]

First round is on me when you do, but Chapel Hill is a solid couple of hours from Charlotte.

Make sure you hit up The Crunkleton while you're up in the Triangle if you like cocktails.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by hooligan_clt

First round is on me when you do, but Chapel Hill is a solid couple of hours from Charlotte.

Make sure you hit up The Crunkleton while you're up in the Triangle if you like cocktails.

I live in DFW, it's a solid drive just to get out of town and four or five to get to Austin to see my sister on most days. Ten to get to my mom in Santa Fe (who can make a decent beer.). A couple of hours is a quick errand.