[HappyG]

Originally Posted by Raider

It's sad to see that it takes a tragedy like this to bring the community together...


And shit like this happen all over the world, resulting in more deaths, each and every day...

This is life as we know it, as real and as ugly as it gets....

Straight, to the point, and so true.
________
Honda gy6 engine specifications
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NEXIUM CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT

[Neurorad]

Originally Posted by HappyG

it seems that you're hell-bent on blaming things that had no relevance in this scenario. Do people blame a car when it kills innocent bystanders as a result of a drunken driver? No, they blame the driver.

You don't listen to the media? Does that also not include reading or watching it? If there's one thing that is consistent, it is that information derived from third and fourth parties are never accurate and always biased. This information is then used to conjure up opinions and pseudo facts by people such as you. A vicious cycle.

Personal protection is also subjective. What may make you feel safe may not make me feel safe. Obviously, we feel that BMW's are safe cars, but what about at your residence? Your workplace? Your neighborhood? I'm not sure how it is in your town, but in a city like Los Angeles, the ratio of law enforcement to civilian is extreme. Do you place the safety of yourself and your loved ones entirely on a public service that can only handle half of the workload that is given?

It's not the rising of government that worries me, it's the unforeseen such as natural disasters, surprise terrorist attacks, etc. When shi$ hits the fan, will you try to maintain peace in a chaotic environment, or do what it takes to defend your life and property? Just like the rioting in Los Angeles or hurricane Katrina, people become desperate and dangerous when put in an environment such as those.

"I don't want you to carry a gun, because you will kill somebody for a stupid reason."

That's a statement without merit. I don't want you to post responses because all your information is worthless. That's about how that sounds to me...I'm sure you have informative posts, so why go out on a retarded branch and make a comment like that?

I feel that we are now disrespecting the main issue and have gone sideways on a subject which is always the point of attack when things like this happen. This is the world we live in. The US probably has billions of firearms in the system already. This issue is not for Glock or Walther to deal with, but psychologists and psychotherapists that need to analyze the intricacies of living in a society which places such burden on people without fully knowing the destructive ramifications it presents.

Truth be told, anyone can kill or cause bodily harm to anyone else with anything that they see fit. (Including a cast iron skillet) It's easy to point fingers at these evil guns and evil laws and evil companies, but realistically, do you think taking firearms off the street would impact murder rates monumentally? That society as we know it would calm itself down and hold hands? I'm a realist, and as such, feel that the only people that commit any type of crime are bad people. Bad people with bad intentions which will use any means necessary to cause harm to you, me, and anyone else that isn't prepared or too naive to realize how the world has changed during the past 10yrs.

And as for your response to killing that many people with an automobile...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222924,00.html

That entire event probably lasted 15-25 seconds. Could've been much, much worse. I don't want you to drive because you may kill the kids that are trying to cross the street.....right.

There are so many others things that we should be worried about like poverty, homelessness, hunger, education, other basic fundamental needs of people in all walks of life. But, let's just focus on guns and poor policies since it is obviously the root of all things evil.

I'm a simple person who tries very hard to pick through all the details to arrive at the bigger picture.

Basically, you want to own a gun for personal protection, while I feel it's unnecessary.

I think more harm comes from owning guns than not owning them, in the United States. Outlawing handguns will not stop criminal activity, but it will reduce the number of violent crimes committed by people who, at a moment of weakness, vent their aggravation by pulling a trigger.

It's a risk/benefit analysis that has been clouded by crap from both sides.

Closing with humor:

[ATG]

Originally Posted by Neurorad

I think more harm comes from owning guns than not owning them, in the United States. Outlawing handguns will not stop criminal activity, but it will reduce the number of violent crimes committed by people who, at a moment of weakness, vent their aggravation by pulling a trigger.

That's the essence of the benefit of stricter gun control laws. Criminals will get guns no matter what, but it is somewhat easier for average people to calculate a risk of being killed by a criminal than a freak like the VA Tech killer. If those freaks get easy access to guns the risk management becomes nearly impossible. You can get shot on a bus, in a library, at a restaurant, or in any other public place just because some stupid f*ck is upset at the way the world is set up. The only way to avoid unpredictable shootings by those weak and crazy jerks is to limit the supply of firearms or introduce stricter requirements for all purchasers of guns.

[HappyG]

There's already billions in circulation...stricter requirements only hinder law abiding citizens. It's like trying to prevent a first time criminal...impossible as there are too many variances to predict and impossible to profile.

Society needs to become pro-active versus reactive in how it deals with matter. It's pathetic how many people come out after the fact and say things about how secluded he was or how his writing reflected such hatred...how they should've, could've, would've, might've stopped him if blah blah blah.

This is my last post to this matter. No need to stir up more emotions over something that's already happened and will never be forgotten. Live and learn.
________
Thc
________
LovelyWendie

[SoYank]

[quote=Neurorad;874947]

Originally Posted by Neurorad

Is Marcia Brady running for office? I know Brady was shot with Reagan, and there was something called the Brady Bill, but I don't have time to go read about it now.

Maybe you should take the time to go read about it.

Jim Brady was the press secretary to Ronald Reagan that was struck in the temple with a .22 handgun round during the assassination attempt by John W. Hinckley on 31 March 1980. Although he survived he has been incapacitated since. Sarah Brady is his wife. She may be running for office, I don't know. Marcia Brady was a fictitious character in a TV show from 1969-1974 called "The Brady Bunch" played by Maureen McCormick. The Brady Bill was a bill that was passed and signed into law during the Clinton administration that required a waiting period and background check for gun purchasers. It morphed into the instant check where a purchaser's details are compared to a national database for felony convictions and other disqualifications.

Originally Posted by Neurorad

I don't listen to the media. You really think a cast iron skillet is as dangerous as a handgun?

It can be. Both are inanimate objects and neither can do harm unless someone uses them inappropriately. A leg of lamb can too. Read "Lamb To The Slaughter" by Roald Dahl.

Originally Posted by Neurorad

So you have a gun for personal protection? What century do you live in? Are the Mongol Hoards attacking your town?

Is someone hoarding Mongols?
My calendar indicates it's the 21st century. The Mongol hordes may not be attacking any towns these days but the 21st century equivalent are.

Originally Posted by Neurorad

Your child is more likely to kill someone with your gun, than you killing someone who is mugging you.

And Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than I have with my guns. So which is more dangerous, he with a car or me with a gun?

Originally Posted by Neurorad

Too bad. It turned out to be a pretty worthless right. When is the last time the U.S. was invaded, or the government needed to be kept in check with armed citizens turned against the government?

When [is] was the last time the U.S. was invaded? This morning... this afternoon... this evening. It'll be invaded tonight and tomorrow morning and....

Originally Posted by Neurorad

The states with lower violent crime rates are less populated - it's not because gun laws are less restrictive. Lower population, less poverty and less crime.

Why are you attributing poverty to violent crime? Sure, it has a bearing. But affluent people have committed violent crimes as well, some horribly gruesome. Take those brothers in California that murdered their own parents because they couldn't wait to get ahold of their "inheritance".

Originally Posted by Neurorad

I don't want you to carry a gun, because you will kill somebody for a stupid reason.

That's a pretty strong accusation. You don't know me. You don't know my mental condition. Your blanket statement is saying that 100% of the time I carry a gun I'm going to kill somebody for a stupid reason.

Originally Posted by Neurorad

Both you and Dleo are mistaken. I don't think he could have killed that many people in a car, and wouldn't have.

He could have killed just as many people if not more with a car given the right sized crowd and vehicle. An 86-year old man in California drove through a crowded market and killed 10 people while injuring 50. And that was an accident! Imagine what he would have done if he was angry.

Originally Posted by Neurorad

He'd need to kill himself after.

Why do you think that?

Originally Posted by Neurorad

Eating junk food has nothing to do with owning a very dangerous toy.

Obviously you've never heard of Dan White. He killed the mayor of San Francisco, George Moscone, and Supervisor Harvey Milk in 1978 with a handgun, "a very dangerous toy". His defense was of "diminished capacity" due to depression. The depression was characterized by his consumption of junk food even though he was known as a health food advocate. The jury found him guilty of manslaughter and his defense has become known as the "Twinkie Defense". And for what it's worth, he committed suicide in 1985 less than two years of release from prison.

[txusa03]

UT is also remembering the 1966 shooting when a gunmen climbed the chool clock tower and went sniper crazy on ppl down below. Now tell me how on earth are we suppose to know when something like this going to strike our life?

[Neurorad]

[QUOTE=SoYank;876084]

Originally Posted by Neurorad

Maybe you should take the time to go read about it.

Jim Brady was the press secretary to Ronald Reagan that was struck in the temple with a .22 handgun round during the assassination attempt by John W. Hinckley on 31 March 1980. Although he survived he has been incapacitated since. Sarah Brady is his wife. She may be running for office, I don't know. Marcia Brady was a fictitious character in a TV show from 1969-1974 called "The Brady Bunch" played by Maureen McCormick. The Brady Bill was a bill that was passed and signed into law during the Clinton administration that required a waiting period and background check for gun purchasers. It morphed into the instant check where a purchaser's details are compared to a national database for felony convictions and other disqualifications.


It can be. Both are inanimate objects and neither can do harm unless someone uses them inappropriately. A leg of lamb can too. Read "Lamb To The Slaughter" by Roald Dahl.


Is someone hoarding Mongols?
My calendar indicates it's the 21st century. The Mongol hordes may not be attacking any towns these days but the 21st century equivalent are.


And Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than I have with my guns. So which is more dangerous, he with a car or me with a gun?


When [is] was the last time the U.S. was invaded? This morning... this afternoon... this evening. It'll be invaded tonight and tomorrow morning and....



Why are you attributing poverty to violent crime? Sure, it has a bearing. But affluent people have committed violent crimes as well, some horribly gruesome. Take those brothers in California that murdered their own parents because they couldn't wait to get ahold of their "inheritance".



That's a pretty strong accusation. You don't know me. You don't know my mental condition. Your blanket statement is saying that 100% of the time I carry a gun I'm going to kill somebody for a stupid reason.


He could have killed just as many people if not more with a car given the right sized crowd and vehicle. An 86-year old man in California drove through a crowded market and killed 10 people while injuring 50. And that was an accident! Imagine what he would have done if he was angry.

Why do you think that?


Obviously you've never heard of Dan White. He killed the mayor of San Francisco, George Moscone, and Supervisor Harvey Milk in 1978 with a handgun, "a very dangerous toy". His defense was of "diminished capacity" due to depression. The depression was characterized by his consumption of junk food even though he was known as a health food advocate. The jury found him guilty of manslaughter and his defense has become known as the "Twinkie Defense". And for what it's worth, he committed suicide in 1985 less than two years of release from prison.

Singular examples ('case reports') are not commonly representative of the whole; that's one of the reasons they stand out, they're atypical. They're not good examples to support any reasoning.

Is this better: I don't think you should own a gun, because I'm afraid you might do something stupid with it. I don't know you, and I don't trust you.

The Brady Bill should have included a waiting period. "I want my gun, I want to kill NOW!" Stupid legislatures caving to gun lobby $$$.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Viral

what happens in the future is an after-effect.......the immediate analysis is pretty fucked-up, considering that's (shooter's nationality) what the media/society is most fascinated with.

FYI, 30 people lost their lives.........but I guess that doesn't matter?

What has happen already happen and there's nothing anyone can do. We all feel sorry/sad for the victims and family. People are already dead and people here are chatting about his motive and discuss about his past...etc to get an idea as to why he did this. Nothing wrong with that...IMO

[Ruff Rider]

You learn from the past to to help in the future.

God stuff like this pisses me off. condolences to all the families and friends of those who have been killed and all those who were injured.

what sucks is that this will probably not be the last time.

[ska///235i]

these pics could be disturbing.......

but this shows you how fuked up this kid was...
as you can see.....the famous double handgun that was originated from Asian movies

[s4iscool]

Since when did we start attributing tactical positions to a country of origin? The mentally ill kid simply watched too many movies and played too many games. Thats where he thought of all those "poses".

[Couch]

Originally Posted by HappyG

This has to be your mom...

http://www.bradycenter.org/about/sarah.php

And as for you, it seems that you're hell-bent on blaming things that had no relevance in this scenario. Do people blame a car when it kills innocent bystanders as a result of a drunken driver? No, they blame the driver.

You don't listen to the media? Does that also not include reading or watching it? If there's one thing that is consistent, it is that information derived from third and fourth parties are never accurate and always biased. This information is then used to conjure up opinions and pseudo facts by people such as you. A vicious cycle.

Personal protection is also subjective. What may make you feel safe may not make me feel safe. Obviously, we feel that BMW's are safe cars, but what about at your residence? Your workplace? Your neighborhood? I'm not sure how it is in your town, but in a city like Los Angeles, the ratio of law enforcement to civilian is extreme. Do you place the safety of yourself and your loved ones entirely on a public service that can only handle half of the workload that is given?

It's not the rising of government that worries me, it's the unforeseen such as natural disasters, surprise terrorist attacks, etc. When shi$ hits the fan, will you try to maintain peace in a chaotic environment, or do what it takes to defend your life and property? Just like the rioting in Los Angeles or hurricane Katrina, people become desperate and dangerous when put in an environment such as those.

"I don't want you to carry a gun, because you will kill somebody for a stupid reason."

That's a statement without merit. I don't want you to post responses because all your information is worthless. That's about how that sounds to me...I'm sure you have informative posts, so why go out on a retarded branch and make a comment like that?

I feel that we are now disrespecting the main issue and have gone sideways on a subject which is always the point of attack when things like this happen. This is the world we live in. The US probably has billions of firearms in the system already. This issue is not for Glock or Walther to deal with, but psychologists and psychotherapists that need to analyze the intricacies of living in a society which places such burden on people without fully knowing the destructive ramifications it presents.

Truth be told, anyone can kill or cause bodily harm to anyone else with anything that they see fit. (Including a cast iron skillet) It's easy to point fingers at these evil guns and evil laws and evil companies, but realistically, do you think taking firearms off the street would impact murder rates monumentally? That society as we know it would calm itself down and hold hands? I'm a realist, and as such, feel that the only people that commit any type of crime are bad people. Bad people with bad intentions which will use any means necessary to cause harm to you, me, and anyone else that isn't prepared or too naive to realize how the world has changed during the past 10yrs.

And as for your response to killing that many people with an automobile...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222924,00.html

That entire event probably lasted 15-25 seconds. Could've been much, much worse. I don't want you to drive because you may kill the kids that are trying to cross the street.....right.

There are so many others things that we should be worried about like poverty, homelessness, hunger, education, other basic fundamental needs of people in all walks of life. But, let's just focus on guns and poor policies since it is obviously the root of all things evil.

+1

In case you don't Happy, you may want to give Michael Savage a try.

There's way more in the videos and envelope than we will EVER know.

Seems to me a clone of al quieda suicide bomber videos. Was he a muslim extremist? Did he have contact with any terrorist organizations? Why was ismail Ax on his arm and what was it's significance?

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by s4iscool

Since when did we start attributing tactical positions to a country of origin? The mentally ill kid simply watched too many movies and played too many games. Thats where he thought of all those "poses".

How many games or films are too much to watch? I've watched literally thousands of films and played hundreds of games. I better watch myself before I turn into a mentally ill pyschopath.

[s4iscool]

Originally Posted by 1stnewcar

How many games or films are too much to watch? I've watched literally thousands of films and played hundreds of games. I better watch myself before I turn into a mentally ill pyschopath.

I didnt say the games and movies made him do it, I said thats what inspired him. A person that was already mentally ill. Nice way of twisting words...good for you!

[BLUE LABEL]

this is not an isolated case. Not to jump off topic, but if 30 deaths sounds like a lot, wake up and open your eyes to the thousands that have died in the middle east. 50k+ Its sickening how there is no value for human life. I think the kid had issues, but those issues definitely were not mended by society. In the end, we try to place blame on the person who shot up the village, but really it takes more than just a psychopath to do these horrific acts. A chain of events must ensue and most times that chain is brought to a hault before its completed its course to violence. Definitely stricter gun control is one issue. But so is the responsibility of his teachers/profs who read fked up literature the guy was composing to conusel him or atleast keep an eye out. In the end we are gonna make the guy out to be evil and point fingers, its a sad truth. Crap like this will continue till we can stand up and take responsibility for the crap. And then only can we say we did something about it. Talk about it is cheap and for the most part redundant.

[Ninjaneer]

Originally Posted by BLUE LABEL

this is not an isolated case. Not to jump off topic, but if 30 deaths sounds like a lot, wake up and open your eyes to the thousands that have died in the middle east. 50k+ Its sickening how there is no value for human life. I think the kid had issues, but those issues definitely were not mended by society. In the end, we try to place blame on the person who shot up the village, but really it takes more than just a psychopath to do these horrific acts. A chain of events must ensue and most times that chain is brought to a hault before its completed its course to violence. Definitely stricter gun control is one issue. But so is the responsibility of his teachers/profs who read fked up literature the guy was composing to conusel him or atleast keep an eye out. In the end we are gonna make the guy out to be evil and point fingers, its a sad truth. Crap like this will continue till we can stand up and take responsibility for the crap. And then only can we say we did something about it. Talk about it is cheap and for the most part redundant.

Well said

The reason it's a big deal is because this violence occurred amongst us and could've happened anywhere at anytime, so people are also in shock of the relative ease with which something like this can get out of control. The reason the deaths in wars and the Middle East don't affect people (other than relatives of people that lose their lives there) is because, to people, it's violence that's off in some distant battlefield. Meanwhile they barely get a realistic view of what happens there from the news and I believe a lot of people just don't want to think about death in general. Unfortunately, it's not really a battlefield there since lots of activities take place in populated civilian areas, so imagine what they're seeing every day.

[poldim]

People dying in war and on the battle field is one thing. Innocent students going to class to get and education who end up having their life taken away by some kid with a fucked up head is a completely different story.

[Xens]

4000 US college students commit suicides ever year, 70,000 sexual abuse cases happen on campus annually.

Nobody cares, as long as it doesn't affect them, these troubled kids can do whatever the hell they want. Until one day, one of them goes really crazy and takes 32 people with him instead of quietly taking his own life. Suddenly, communities become concerned; People become paranoid; A whole bunch of laws regarding guns, violence, media influence, security, etc etc etc are called into debate and questioned intensely.

But no matter how many laws we change and how many legislations we approve, there's no law in our country to teach and regulate this: human compassion for those that are "different".

Don't think for a minute here that I'm defending the killer's actions, he was a seriously fucked up kid that had deep psychological issues. But I must wonder what the 4000 potential suicide candidates must be thinking when they watch this: "Nobody cares if I die, but if I shoot up a school, then I will become the center of attention, like the kids from Columbine and that guy from Virginia Tech."

Don't just blame, think.

[ATG]

Originally Posted by Xens

4000 US college students commit suicides ever year, 70,000 sexual abuse cases happen on campus annually.

Nobody cares, as long as it doesn't affect them, these troubled kids can do whatever the hell they want. Until one day, one of them goes really crazy and takes 32 people with him instead of quietly taking his own life. Suddenly, communities become concerned; People become paranoid; A whole bunch of laws regarding guns, violence, media influence, security, etc etc etc are called into debate and questioned intensely.

But no matter how many laws we change and how many legislations we approve, there's no law in our country to teach and regulate this: human compassion for those that are "different".

Don't think for a minute here that I'm defending the killer's actions, he was a seriously fucked up kid that had deep psychological issues. But I must wonder what the 4000 potential suicide candidates must be thinking when they watch this: "Nobody cares if I die, but if I shoot up a school, then I will become the center of attention, like the kids from Columbine and that guy from Virginia Tech."

Don't just blame, think.

Very good post. I guess we need a MAJOR reform of the education system where kids, starting from a very young age, are tought tolerance, compassion, and self-esteem. Both bullys and bullees must be better educated and tought that harming another human being in 99.9 % of the cases in unacceptable.

[BMW F22]

did anyone read the story of Collin, a massacre survivor?? He was in the room that that fucker Cho went into. He got shot 3 times while playing dead and was lucky to survive. It's just crazy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18183450...week/?GT1=9246

[Neurorad]

Originally Posted by ATG

Very good post. I guess we need a MAJOR reform of the education system where kids, starting from a very young age, are tought tolerance, compassion, and self-esteem. Both bullys and bullees must be better educated and tought that harming another human being in 99.9 % of the cases in unacceptable.

'Contemplative Education':

"One hears all kinds of answers—educational theory is an ever-burgeoning industry—but some of the freshest voices today are talking about, and trying out, methods that go beyond transmitting information and training in cognitive skills. In having children pay attention to their breath, to their walking, to the world around them, and to their own emotions and those of others, they are trying to include all parts of the child, and all parts of the teacher, in the process of education. Beyond that, they are fostering a nurturing and caring climate in the classroom, and even expanding the object of study to include the workings of the mind itself. Some call it “contemplative education”; others are reluctant to name it anything just yet. The common thread that runs through the comments of all of the educators I spoke with, though, is that school can be a place of tremendous discovery, and real discovery requires all the resources of body, mind, and spirit that teacher and student can muster."

To read more:
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.ph...=3004&Itemid=0