[Silver 325i]

Originally Posted by hskev

ok about 0-100km/h. STi has clearly got an advantage due to awd

But compare the 100-250km/h of 330i and STi...I think that the outcome changes a bit..

and thats what i was noticing in general about turbo's...they seem to loose power at higher speeds...

The subaru not only has the advantage but also has a disadvantage with AWD. AWD drivetrains have more rotation mass, which require more inertia to spin - this eats up horsepower. This is why the car is "slower" at high speeds. Not to mention the extra 100-200 pounds the AWD adds to the car. AWD is obviously great for a normal street car since you are ussually under 100 mph and allows for a great launch.

A rwd or fwd turbo car is extremely fast at high speeds. I used to have a 95 Saab 900se turbo coupe (fwd) which I had moded and was getting about 250 hp (20 psi of boost on a 2L engine!). This car was amazing at high speeds.

[bimmerwannerbie]

I was in a EVO last night for the first time. It was fast but you can feel every bump under your axx.

[Nemis]

STI have a speed limiter at 250km/h , more o less 6000rmp
i have sell my sti bug-eye after 54k km and i know it well ;-) , now drive 330d

[parafrog]

Originally Posted by sunchild

from a stop to 60 ... took me by half carlength to a carlength, not as fast as i suspected. the new m3 will eat it.



stephen

wow, that's funny. this morning i had an STI run up on me. you're right, they're pretty fast. he stayed on me until we hit the round-a-bouts (they have these in europe instead of intersections) and i put a little space between us. on the straights he was right up on me. i'm not into racing but i like to play a little. i won't do anything stupid. i'm still in the break in period so i didn't get too crazy anyway. i knew his horsepower could dust me in the straights, but i didn't care.

i think he was just checking out my car. sooooo refined compared to his STI. i respect the STI's capabilities, but not even on the same level as the 330i.

it's all good. it was interesting to log on and see your thread after i just ran into one this morning. anyway, happy motoring.

frog

[harbour456]

Some commentary on the Subaru versus BMW debate. I presently own (for another 2 weeks until my 330i arrives) a 2002 WRX (not an STI version) which however is discretely modified (read NOT rice) to make 275 hp and 275 lb/ft.

Some points about subaru WRX's/STI's:

- are they as refined as the 330i I am buying? certainly not but a very different type of car

- are they fast? (definitely) That STI was not really trying or did not get much of a launch. My own lightly modified WRX is MUCH faster then the 330i I have ordered. The STI is extremely fast... and I have driven it. Apples and oranges to the 330i people.

- will the new M3 own the 2004-2006 STI? of course but it will cost 75% more and the STI is EASILY modified to be right in line with the M3. Also, there will be a new STI in 2008... I'm sure it won't be slower.

- some final points: Don't knock cars that you don't have personal experience with. I'm a car lover, not just a BMW lover. Obviously I love BMW's since I've ordered a 330i but that doesn't mean that all other cars are "crap". Also, if you define "crap" as a car that has had NO problems whatsoever (I mean NONE) in 4 years of driving... well, I have a few BMW maintenance stories to tell you...

- hence, just because we love BMW's doesn't mean that the competition makes bad cars.

- the next time you line up against an STI (even a WRX) you'd better think twice... and remind yourself that that's not really why you bought the E90 in the first place. There are plenty of faster accelerating cars out there for less money.

- just my two cents (Canadian that it)

Cheers from the Great White North!

[harbour456]

One additional point:

- if that STI wasn't keeping up with you in the twisty bits... he wasn't trying or was a shitty driver. A 330i will also NOT outhandle an STI (yes, I have driven both). Every review you read will demonstrate higher slalom and lateral grip numbers for the STI then for our beloved 330i... don't kid yourself.

- if I'm such a Subaru fan then why did I just buy a 330i? Both are great cars but given the commute I'm doing now I wanted something more civil.... believe it or not though the STI was more pure FUN. If you doubt that go test-drive one. It would be difficult to live with everyday and looks a bit ridiculous but my GOD, it's FUN.

Cheers

[parafrog]

[QUOTE=harbour456]One additional point:

- if that STI wasn't keeping up with you in the twisty bits... he wasn't trying or was a shitty driver. A 330i will also NOT outhandle an STI (yes, I have driven both). Every review you read will demonstrate higher slalom and lateral grip numbers for the STI then for our beloved 330i... don't kid yourself.

- if I'm such a Subaru fan then why did I just buy a 330i? Both are great cars but given the commute I'm doing now I wanted something more civil.... believe it or not though the STI was more pure FUN. If you doubt that go test-drive one. It would be difficult to live with everyday and looks a bit ridiculous but my GOD, it's FUN.

harbour456,

i'm not defending my car or his driving skills.i just stated that i put a little space between us on the round-a-bout. maybe he is a shitty driver, but i don't have any delusions about the capabilities of the STI. that thing is a beast and would gobble up a majority of the cars on the road.

if i was 20 years old, my choice might be different (probably not). i just firmly believe that the e90 is a better overall car, hands down.

just my 2 cents.

-frog

[harbour456]

Parafrog,

Forgive the tone of the message... wasn't trying to flame.

I agree with you that the STI is just too juvenile for older tastes. Now in my mid-30s and married, the STI was just not in the cards at this point. My wife had one look at the STI and said "looks just like your present Subaru... but it's uglier!" Enough said. Hence 330i!

Cheers

[scottz5]

Originally Posted by creaminz

Only a half car length?? He must be sleeping or something...that thing is super quick off the line, AWD helps. New M3 will eat it for sure but it won't be too easy to swallow.

I agree he was sleeping, as a past owner of a 2002 Z06 they would take me off the line by a cars lenth, but after my tires hooked up I would smoke them. They are super fast 0-35mph and then the slow down a bit. Its awd and dropping the cluch at 4500rpm is why they kick so many cars off the line. STI's will eat our cars without trying and I would bet they will take the new m3(rwd) off the line also.

[Hotan Braskey]

I own a 2004 STi and I am currently thinking about an e90. The STi is ungodly fast- much faster than an e90. If it is raining or snowing, it is even faster than the BM. But what harbour was saying was right-they are totally different cars. Even though the STi has unbelievable performance, it is hard to live with everyday, which is why I am thinking about the e90. Both are very satisfying cars in different ways.

[zdognaylor]

Originally Posted by sunchild

from a stop to 60 ... took me by half carlength to a carlength, not as fast as i suspected. the new m3 will eat it.



stephen

I've driven those damn things so once again

[voltron1011]

That's the thing about these turbo cars (I had an Eclipse GSX Turbo [moded] a long time ago). They are super fast but they are pretty useless in day to day driving. Plus, you really have to be aware if someone wants to race you or not. If you are not up on your boost then you will get beat off the line by granny in her Caddy. I think a 330d would be the best day-to-day driver because of all that TORQUE. The kind of torque that comes on the second you hit the pedal. You can drive the car normally and the minute someone wants to play, you've got power. There is no dramatic revving and clutch-dumping involved. Just my 2 cents.

[sunchild]

Originally Posted by zdognaylor

I've driven those damn things so once again

oh yeah, is this BS too?

[parafrog]

Originally Posted by harbour456

Parafrog,

Forgive the tone of the message... wasn't trying to flame.

I agree with you that the STI is just too juvenile for older tastes. Now in my mid-30s and married, the STI was just not in the cards at this point. My wife had one look at the STI and said "looks just like your present Subaru... but it's uglier!" Enough said. Hence 330i!

Cheers

it's all good. i know you weren't trying to flame. just trying to clarify my point. we are on the same page. i'm 36 with two kids and wife. STI wouldn't happen at this point in time.

cheers

[MIKEYMIKE]

Of course an STI will take an e90....are you kidding me?

I don't think an STI is a crappy rice box...it just depends on what you want in a car. The STI and the Evo are all about performance; speed and handling. But you get no Luxury.

An Sti will outperform an E90 anyday of the week, in the twisties or in a straight line. But it doesn't have any luxury that the e90 does, ride quality, quietness, smoothness, nice leather, etc....

BTW, STI's and EVO's can be highly modified extremely cheaply. With just a few thousand dollars those things can get MUCH MUICH faster than they are stock.

[Macfreak7]

I once "followed" an STI (or it might have been an EVO, it was in the middle of the night and i had to focus on the road). I was driving a little fast, but not aggressively. This guy decides to step on it, I decide to chase it. I was right behind him all the way to 145.
I have a feeling that i could've passed him, but I didn't cause I wasn't driving aggressively (never really dropped to 4th gear, and i was too chicken, didn't want to get busted ).

So yeah, they're pretty good to about 110. But after that the 330 catches up rather quickly (straight line). Also i'm guessing his car was stock, other than a few ricer mods.
Overall it was really fun, and going up on the speedometer like that is what makes me think that feeling happy about your 0-60 time is silly and for the birds.

[db17k]

One of the great features of the STI though is that it's got a shift light built into the gauges that can be manually set to whatever RPM you like. it's not like an annoying shift up light that comes on at 3000 RPM like in a saturn.

[MIKEYMIKE]

Mac,

What you're saying is right. The STI's/Evo's have great launch abilities with their AWD....but in higher speeds like at 80 and up they are not as fast.

[scottz5]

Originally Posted by MIKEYMIKE

Mac,

What you're saying is right. The STI's/Evo's have great launch abilities with their AWD....but in higher speeds like at 80 and up they are not as fast.

that is true lots of power down low.

my Z06 would pull away in 2nd gear.

[Xens]

I stand by my point, THAT IS A STUPID WING!!! I know it's functional, but damn they could have made it look A BIT less obnoxious?!

[jbl16]

Originally Posted by Triji

Doesn't that thing hit 0-60 in like 4.6? thats Z06 territory... Ugly but fast.

Z06 territory ? lol a z06 would it eat alive, let alone one of the new c6 zo6, the STI and Evos have great low end acceleration due to AWD, but there topend sucks, they are also cost effective with mods (low investment great hp increase). z06's do 0-60 close to 4.0 flat the new ones do sub 4 sec I believe.
An STI cant beat the current M3, both stock, in numbers and as I have seen.

[peakpro]

Originally Posted by Xens

I stand by my point, THAT IS A STUPID WING!!! I know it's functional, but damn they could have made it look A BIT less obnoxious?!

Yeah..like the rear end of the e90 is something to brag about.