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      12-03-2021, 02:48 AM   #5039
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
IMHO, most people are cowards who are scared to act when it's time to act…..


…whether that action is to defend someone who is being assaulted physically (…e.g…a flight attendant being assaulted by a passenger), defend somebody being assaulted verbally (…e.g. BLM crowds/members disrupting people just trying to eat dinner with their families) or defend a city that is being perpetrated against by people with bad intentions. Good on Rittenhouse to act to protect life and property. If we had more Americans who were willing to combat the nonsense, we wouldn't be in the perilous state we're in [as a country].

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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
That is true, but coming to the defense of others is not going to get you into trouble with the law under all but the most extreme set of circumstances. It's one thing to see two grown men fighting, for example, and decide to stay out of it. It's another thing entirely to watch a woman be sexually assaulted or a flight attendant being assaulted and do absolutely nothing. At the very least, we should protect our women and children. That's just my perspective though.

I expect more from men I suppose. When these criminals use their girlfriends and wives as human shields it truly pisses me off. Friggin cowards!
Agreed. I too expect more but not just from men but from women also, but sadly our society is becoming more and more submissive, deflective, and generally soft. It's easier to act like we didn't see something than to act on it. Or, what seems to be the norm these days, record the act on video while doing nothing, and then post it on social media and call the person out. Social media warriors. It's sad.

Also regarding the comment that most people are cowards when it comes time to act, it's getting away from the topic as it was discussed but it's a good example of how the "tough" easily break when it comes time to act and we see this in the military all the time and I'm sure the police force sees it as well. Guys (and gals) think they are protectors, will act like Billy Badass, act tough talking about how they are ready to fuck shit up, fight the enemy, how they aren't scared of a firefight etc, but as soon as the rounds start flying you find them cowering behind a barrier and screaming while the guy who is usually humble, quiet and reserved is getting shit done and fighting like a reincarnated Spartan warrior.
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      12-03-2021, 06:03 AM   #5040
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Originally Posted by cmyx6go View Post
What a disgrace! You minimize the fact that 58 LEO were killed doing their job?!?!
....
I minimized nothing. I think you have it backwards.
I wonder why cops & others all over the country minimize the damage that not getting vaxxed causes, not just to those who choose such, but to innocent bystanders.
I have not seen folks here, including you, morn the fact that so many more cops die from covid.

Remember, covid never stops with infecting "just you". It spreads.

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      12-03-2021, 06:22 AM   #5041
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Agreed. I too expect more but not just from men but from women also, but sadly our society is becoming more and more submissive, deflective, and generally soft. It's easier to act like we didn't see something than to act on it. Or, what seems to be the norm these days, record the act on video while doing nothing, and then post it on social media and call the person out. Social media warriors. It's sad....
It is often very hard to be brave & stand up for what's right when every little punk has a gun.
I've been threatened with a gun for telling people to get off their car horn on my block. You reap what you sow.
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      12-03-2021, 07:32 AM   #5042
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How long do you think before a business owner in California defends his store with his AR against the "smash and grabbers"? What would be the consequences for a business owner if that were to happen?
I think we're on the cusp of that happening if I'm being honest. People are completely fed up. We have flash mob robberies/thefts every other day. The problem a business owner would have is articulating the need to fire a weapon if there's no threat of serious bodily or death. A theft absent a threat is just petty theft/shoplifting or grand theft; a property crime. Shoplifting plus a threat turns it into an Estes robbery.

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So, how much is your department getting from ARPA for front line workers?

Our Council approved $175/mn for the period 3/20-3/21 for sworn. Non-sworn got $150. I tried to convince my boss that IT supports PD at least 50%/day and on call 24x7, we should get something more than the $100 for general staff. He laughed.
We revived $1000 this month and will be paid an additional $500 next month for working through COVID. We are still negotiating for a raise.

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Originally Posted by Donatello. View Post
I had traffic court yesterday. 85 in a 65. This was on a local major highway so we know 85 is not exactly flying, but b/c speed limits haven't been revised, I was breaking the law on paper.

I saw him flying up reckless weaving through traffic to get me. I pulled over ad waited for him. No break.

I hire lawyer & I only get 2 points knocked off. WTH? I could have done that without a lawyer...

My question is, is only taking 2 pts off under these circumstances normal these days? Oh, it was last day of the month that I was pulled over as well...
What state do you reside in? Those points likely made the difference between you having a license and having your license suspended for a year or two without any provisions.
Excellent point. Not all states allow civilians to use deadly force to protect all property. This gets lost on a lot of folks.
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      12-03-2021, 07:42 AM   #5043
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Originally Posted by ///d View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
IMHO, most people are cowards who are scared to act when it's time to act…..


…whether that action is to defend someone who is being assaulted physically (…e.g…a flight attendant being assaulted by a passenger), defend somebody being assaulted verbally (…e.g. BLM crowds/members disrupting people just trying to eat dinner with their families) or defend a city that is being perpetrated against by people with bad intentions. Good on Rittenhouse to act to protect life and property. If we had more Americans who were willing to combat the nonsense, we wouldn't be in the perilous state we're in [as a country].

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
That is true, but coming to the defense of others is not going to get you into trouble with the law under all but the most extreme set of circumstances. It's one thing to see two grown men fighting, for example, and decide to stay out of it. It's another thing entirely to watch a woman be sexually assaulted or a flight attendant being assaulted and do absolutely nothing. At the very least, we should protect our women and children. That's just my perspective though.

I expect more from men I suppose. When these criminals use their girlfriends and wives as human shields it truly pisses me off. Friggin cowards!
Agreed. I too expect more but not just from men but from women also, but sadly our society is becoming more and more submissive, deflective, and generally soft. It's easier to act like we didn't see something than to act on it. Or, what seems to be the norm these days, record the act on video while doing nothing, and then post it on social media and call the person out. Social media warriors. It's sad.

Also regarding the comment that most people are cowards when it comes time to act, it's getting away from the topic as it was discussed but it's a good example of how the "tough" easily break when it comes time to act and we see this in the military all the time and I'm sure the police force sees it as well. Guys (and gals) think they are protectors, will act like Billy Badass, act tough talking about how they are ready to fuck shit up, fight the enemy, how they aren't scared of a firefight etc, but as soon as the rounds start flying you find them cowering behind a barrier and screaming while the guy who is usually humble, quiet and reserved is getting shit done and fighting like a reincarnated Spartan warrior.
oh please. Up until the last 25 yrs or so society has almost always tolerated the public display of domestic violence.


If you're going to intervene you had better know the law otherwise you're going to end up in prison like the yahoos who killed Ahmed Aubrey or worse.
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      12-03-2021, 08:20 AM   #5044
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oh please. Up until the last 25 yrs or so society has almost always tolerated the public display of domestic violence.


If you're going to intervene you had better know the law otherwise you're going to end up in prison like the yahoos who killed Ahmed Aubrey or worse.
If you use excessive force you can find yourself in trouble, but if you act in good faith you really have nothing to worry about from a legal standpoint. There are risks to intervening but they can be mitigated. Often telling the involved parties that you are filming them and calling 911 will shut it down, and often if one person interjects themselves others will follow.
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      12-03-2021, 05:26 PM   #5045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I think we're on the cusp of that happening if I'm being honest. People are completely fed up. We have flash mob robberies/thefts every other day. The problem a business owner would have is articulating the need to fire a weapon if there's no threat of serious bodily injury or death. A theft absent a threat is just petty theft/shoplifting or grand theft; a property crime. Shoplifting plus a threat turns it into an Estes robbery.



We revived $1000 this month and will be paid an additional $500 next month for working through COVID. We are still negotiating for a raise.



What state do you reside in? Those points likely made the difference between you having a license and having your license suspended for a year or two without any provisions.
No, they did not. I had no pts on my license prior ro these 2. I am in PA
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      12-03-2021, 06:27 PM   #5046
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Some of my partners are on bike patrol today. One of the contract cities purchased approximately ten Cannondale bikes equipped with lights and sirens to be used for specialized enforcement.
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      12-03-2021, 06:41 PM   #5047
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      12-03-2021, 06:56 PM   #5048
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Some of my partners on are bike patrol today. One of the contract cities purchased approximately ten Cannondale bikes equipped with lights and sirens to be used for specialized enforcement.
So the Cannondale bikes are going to pull over the Specialized bikes?
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      12-03-2021, 09:04 PM   #5049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upstatedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Some of my partners on are bike patrol today. One of the contract cities purchased approximately ten Cannondale bikes equipped with lights and sirens to be used for specialized enforcement.
So the Cannondale bikes are going to pull over the Specialized bikes?


I see what you did there. LOL!
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      12-03-2021, 10:43 PM   #5050
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Just had a flash mob robbery at the Best Buy. This crime wave is out of control.
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      12-04-2021, 06:55 AM   #5051
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Thanks.... What does everybody think about the Andrew Coffee case/verdict?
Here we have another case of a minor carrying, & using a gun, where he obviously wasn't supposed to.
The parents ran, but were caught. Guilty!
Teach your children well. It was asked here a little while ago, how young is too young for unsupervised gun play?

"Parents of Michigan Shooting Suspect Arrested in Detroit, Police Say

The couple were charged after officials said their son carried out the shootings using a handgun his parents had bought for him."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/04/u...-arrested.html
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      12-04-2021, 09:08 AM   #5052
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Just had a flash mob robbery at the Best Buy. This crime wave is out of control.
At what point in time will this madness stop? Here in Ontario alcohol is sold by government stores, the LCBO. They are the largest purchaser of alcohol on the planet (I kid you not). Over the past few years they have stopped engaging shoplifters. It is now routine that people walk in, fill their backpack or what ever and just walk out. Almost $100M a year in thefts.

On what planet is this acceptable?
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      12-04-2021, 09:12 AM   #5053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Just had a flash mob robbery at the Best Buy. This crime wave is out of control.
At what point in time will this madness stop? Here in Ontario alcohol is sold by government stores, the LCBO. They are the largest purchaser of alcohol on the planet (I kid you not). Over the past few years they have stopped engaging shoplifters. It is now routine that people walk in, fill their backpack or what ever and just walk out. Almost $100M a year in thefts.

On what planet is this acceptable?
I find myself asking those very same questions. It's as if these companies are okay with significant product shrinkage and those who are in charge of prosecuting thefts have completely acquiesced to criminals.
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      12-04-2021, 09:28 AM   #5054
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Some of my partners are on bike patrol today. One of the contract cities purchased approximately ten Cannondale bikes equipped with lights and sirens to be used for specialized enforcement.
Toronto Police uses a bike that is manufactured locally, Thin Blue Line, I wonder how long before they get cancelled.
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      12-04-2021, 09:58 AM   #5055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Just had a flash mob robbery at the Best Buy. This crime wave is out of control.
At what point in time will this madness stop? Here in Ontario alcohol is sold by government stores, the LCBO. They are the largest purchaser of alcohol on the planet (I kid you not). Over the past few years they have stopped engaging shoplifters. It is now routine that people walk in, fill their backpack or what ever and just walk out. Almost $100M a year in thefts.

On what planet is this acceptable?
It's all about liability (civil and criminal).
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      12-04-2021, 09:59 AM   #5056
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I am curious about the Kevin Nishita case. If there are 20 people that conspire to commit a smash and grab and during the crime one of them shoots and kills someone are they not ALL guilty of murder?

I await with baited breath to hear of the convictions of the smash and grab gang members with multiple years prison time each.

OK I jest. We all know that won't happen to these people stealing bread for their babies.
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      12-04-2021, 10:01 AM   #5057
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Some of my partners are on bike patrol today. One of the contract cities purchased approximately ten Cannondale bikes equipped with lights and sirens to be used for specialized enforcement.
I can only imagine how many cellphone citations they could write by sneaking up on drivers at red lights.
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      12-04-2021, 10:05 AM   #5058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I find myself asking those very same questions. It's as if these companies are okay with significant product shrinkage and those who are in charge of prosecuting thefts have completely acquiesced to criminals.
With the new no-bail laws on this coast, it is a waste of time thanks to catch-and-release.

In one week back in November, there were riots and shootings on the grounds of main high schools in two different small cities here. Both districts had to close their high schools for multiple days, while security procedures were revised and implemented. These are crazy times, and I fear for the country when these kids are the norm in our society in a few years.

Today's regional news included a video link from social media by a few girls that were former students of one of these high schools, who entered the building and pummeled one or more current girl students. They obviously have no fear of the consequences by posting video of their trespassing and assault for the world to see, not to mention the school's weeks-old new security procedures allowing them into the building when they weren't current students.....
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      12-04-2021, 10:19 AM   #5059
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It's all about liability (civil and criminal).
It is, the LCBO is fully government owned, so they talk the loss and pass it onto the tax payer. But for small privately owned stores, how do you stay in business when assholes can just walk in take what they want and leave with near zero concern about prosecution or recourse?
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      12-04-2021, 10:25 AM   #5060
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
It's all about liability (civil and criminal).
It is, the LCBO is fully government owned, so they talk the loss and pass it onto the tax payer. But for small privately owned stores, how do you stay in business when assholes can just walk in take what they want and leave with near zero concern about prosecution or recourse?
Answer: Store owners should move.
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