[jcal65]

Any other owners get a survey from the "BMW Board of Drivers" recently asking for opinions on future M550 powertrain options?

The questions presented discuss the options of fully electric, 6 cyl. gas plug-in hybrid, 6 cyl. gas only hybrid with slower acceleration but better fuel economy.

I knew when I ordered my car that it would probably be the last of the V8’s for the 5 series. I'm not sure even the M5 is safe from V8 extinction in the next generation. The M550 is a great car, and the gas mileage is better than most SUV’s and pickups on the road, despite its impressive V8 performance.

I am normally an early adopter of technology; I just cannot get my head around going to an all-electric car yet. Tesla has always had zero appeal to me. I respect the technology, but just don’t get going all-in, almost overnight, without adequate charging infrastructure in place to meet the growing demand and output from all vehicle manufacturers. Right now, around 1% of cars are electric in the US and I keep reading that nearly 30% of charging stations in the SF bay area where I live are normally out of service or do not charge to normal capacity, requiring long wait times. There are currently no charging stations close to my home and 16 gas stations within 5 miles of it. My current in and out time at Costco for gas is never more than 10-12 minutes max. I imagine more charging stations will be built, but I don't see any under construction, as of today, which would be beneficial to me. Most of my neighbors charge their cars at home.

Some may say, get solar and a home charging station for convenience. My wife and I are dual income, no children. I am not interested in spending nearly $50k on solar and a charging station when our current gas and electric bill averages $180/month, it was only $127 in April. We don’t drive high miles every year, so even at $6/gal. for gas, there is not a major impact for us. I’m not sure we would live long enough to see the return on investment on solar with our usage. Solar is tied to the electric company, so the upcoming blackouts we are constantly being warned about in CA this summer will also affect solar customers unless they spent even more money for a backup generator or batteries. Charging at our home without solar at the current and rising electric rates does not pencil out either.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not against electric vehicles and will probably be forced into one eventually. Dumping a lot of money to follow the current trend does not make sense for me at this point in time and the near future. Maybe hydrogen would be a better.

My survey response was no, no, no and no, I want the V8 to live in the M550. Please no goofy spaceship sounds for me in a gimmicky all-electric car.

There was no mention of keeping the V8 alive. I believe without it, the appeal of the M550 will be lost in the segment it attracts now, which is not mainstream. I'm sure there will always be a 530E hybrid plug-in or a full electric variation of it for those who desire. Does this mean the 540i will get a performance 4 cylinder hybrid eventually to separate the segments?

How about a V8 plug-in hybrid as a compromise?

In the end, I don't think my opinion or yours really matters, we are moving towards electrification in all segments, like it or not. The traditional die hard enthusiasts that peruse this forum will be forced to comply as cars move to energy-saving, automated, more environmentally friendly transportation appliances.

I’m patiently waiting for the next survey asking my opinion on whether the 5 series should be updated with a large beaver tooth illuminated grill with changing colors.

Am I missing something, if so, please explain?

Comments?

[LogicalApex]

I’m very much looking forward to the i5 to replace my 530e when the time comes to do so (I expect around 2026 or 2027).

I can’t really see a whole lot of downsides to going fully electric. Most of your concerns are baseless IMHO.

You wouldn’t need to charge all the time like you do for gas. You’d only need to charge away from home on a road trip. I’d imagine this will continue to be less and less of an issue over the next decade (the ICE 5-Series will be around for at least another generation in the G60). It will offer a lot of positive opportunities long term IMHO for everyone.

My 530e is not a full EV, but it costs me <$1 to fully charge my EV battery and that is equal to at least 2 gallons of gas which is ~$10-12 these days.

I expect BMW will deliver their DNA in their EVs. It won’t be a Tesla aimed at driving you around and taking the joy of driving away. Instead it will be a driver’s car utilizing the power and flexibility of an EV to re-imagine performance driving.

Lastly, the cars will truly last a long time! A fully electric 5 would probably only need wipers and tires for the first 100K miles…

[BMW012]

no, no, no, no, no. please give us our v8s!

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I’m very much looking forward to the i5 to replace my 530e when the time comes to do so (I expect around 2026 or 2027).

I can’t really see a whole lot of downsides to going fully electric. Most of your concerns are baseless IMHO.

I disagree. His concerns are NOT baseless at all. As a matter of fact, most people who own performance BMWs have the same concerns. I could never picture myself driving an electric BMW, let alone a slow one.

Your main concern appears to be saving money. With all due respect, that's not what the "Ultimate Driving Machine" is made for. Most of the enthusiast want a nice sounding V8. People in the hunt for saving gas money are better off with another make

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I’m very much looking forward to the i5 to replace my 530e when the time comes to do so (I expect around 2026 or 2027).

I can’t really see a whole lot of downsides to going fully electric. Most of your concerns are baseless IMHO.

You wouldn’t need to charge all the time like you do for gas. You’d only need to charge away from home on a road trip. I’d imagine this will continue to be less and less of an issue over the next decade (the ICE 5-Series will be around for at least another generation in the G60). It will offer a lot of positive opportunities long term IMHO for everyone.

My 530e is not a full EV, but it costs me <$1 to fully charge my EV battery and that is equal to at least 2 gallons of gas which is ~$10-12 these days.

I expect BMW will deliver their DNA in their EVs. It won’t be a Tesla aimed at driving you around and taking the joy of driving away. Instead it will be a driver’s car utilizing the power and flexibility of an EV to re-imagine performance driving.

Lastly, the cars will truly last a long time! A fully electric 5 would probably only need wipers and tires for the first 100K miles…

I get your points, but one major appeal for enthusiasts in the M550 market segment is the V8 sound. This will be lost with electric and totally changes the reasons why you would own one in the first place.

[tbinmd]

Fwiw, my current car is a Tesla Model 3. I ordered an M550i two weeks ago. Charging was never a problem for me, but Tesla is somewhat unique in that way, among EVs. There are very few EVs out there now with >300 mile range, and no one has the charging network and speed that Tesla has. All of that said, I'm switching to an ICE car because the model 3 is a poorly made car. It drives well, the acceleration is nice, and from a UI perspective it's amazing. But Tesla just isn't there yet on the fundamentals of making a car. The interior feels cheap. There are all sorts of issues that are common with Teslas, all minor, but all pointing towards a lack of experience - faulty upper control arms, brake lights that fill up with water, bumpers that just fall off. Luckily I've avoided those, but many Tesla owners have not.

All that is to say that if BMW can combine their ability to make a solid car with the driving experience of an EV, it could be interesting. That said, the charging issue is still there. Tesla superchargers get up to 250kw, enabling very fast charging. No one else is close to that.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I disagree. His concerns are NOT baseless at all. As a matter of fact, most people who own performance BMWs have the same concerns. I could never picture myself driving an electric BMW, let alone a slow one.

Your main concern appears to be saving money. With all due respect, that's not what the "Ultimate Driving Machine" is made for. Most of the enthusiast want a nice sounding V8. People in the hunt for saving gas money are better off with another make

I get that the value of various portions of the ownership will vary heavily. I like to not waste a dollar and I’m sure the majority of people on here are the same. We just differ on what constitutes waste

That said. I mentioned it solely due to the post citing cost as a problem for EVs. Since the OP cited the cost of charging an EV and needing solar as obstacles I felt it made since to point out that cost differential as being off base.

Originally Posted by jcal65

I get your points, but one major appeal for enthusiasts in the M550 market segment is the V8 sound. This will be lost with electric and totally changes the reasons why you would own one in the first place.

Engine sound is important to many. That’s one thing that will be a negative of the transition, but that the sound isn’t the only thing that makes a car like the M550 great to drive. It also doesn’t mean that a full EV with BMW’s DNA wouldn’t offer other advantages to make it worthy of being driven.

That said. You’ll have the upcoming G60 and existing cars on the road for a long time to buy and drive

[oilandgas]

1st, how do you get invited to the Board of Drivers?

2nd, the used car value of electric cars is going to be in the toilet in years 7+ when cars get to the end of the battery lifecycle. If companies like BMW can't even update the i-drive systems after a 4-5 yr life cycle, how in the world can we realistically expect them to update/swap out an entirely new battery system after 7+ yrs (which most likely will use new technology/chemistry). These issues wouldn't exist w/ hydrogen or with 100% ethanol fuel (assuming that the mfg's used stainless fuel pump parts).

[2022M550i]

Yay!!! Lets all go electric so the country can all be dependent on one energy source. As usual, brilliant. Still….no one addresses the byproduct of electric motors and its impact on our atmosphere. Let's retool our entire automotive industry, then we'll take a look. Yes, I let them know how I felt. If you want electric, I'm all for it. For some reason, nothing about going electric gives me a hard on. This big push for electric, isn't anyone looking behind the curtain to see how we are generating electricity? It's baffling. Imagine the cost of electricity when demand skyrockets? It's nuts now. I think the hybrid concept is cool...and am all for that.

In a couple years - M550i will give you a powerful inline 6 coupled with electric unicorns…. A few years later - what do you think about a 4 cyl with solar panels on the roof along with a mast and sail? It will come with a hydroelectric sippy cup. 25 years down the road - what do you think about the internal combustion engine?…the mining of lithium is destroying our planet and the ozone produced by the billions of electric motors is destroying our atmosphere…OMG, the planet is too cold (just like NASA's climate analysis in the 70's).

They are making it easy for themselves, governments….if they dont like you or your politics or if you dont use the proper pronoun, they will cripple you by shutting your power off, then disable your bitcoin. Its simple that way….only two levers to pull.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

...
My 530e is not a full EV, but it costs me <$1 to fully charge my EV battery and that is equal to at least 2 gallons of gas which is ~$10-12 these days...

And you get how many miles out of that charge? 15 miles?

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by oilandgas

1st, how do you get invited to the Board of Drivers?

Shortly after I took delivery of my car I received an email from BMW North America asking me if I would like to participate in online surveys to help improve the brand and vehicle experience.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

And you get how many miles out of that charge? 15 miles?

That’s what I get in deep winter. In the warmer months like now it is closer to 30 miles. In urban driving both are worth over 2-4 gallons of premium gas.

I get being leery of the change. I get wanting access to the current crop of technologies for a bit longer. But we’re looking at another ICE platform for the 5-Series launching next year so we’re not yet looking at the last ICE M550i (or its G60 equiv).

In that vein it seems silly to me to be concerned about that since you’ll still be able to buy used ICE BMWs for decades beyond that point even…

And it doesn’t take into account any of the things BMW can bring to the table with their driver’s first DNA. I don’t expect BMW EVs to be as crappy as Tesla’s. My 530e sure isn’t boring to drive.

But I get it. The majority of pushback on the EV transition are basically Luddite claims. There are some legitimate concerns, but those are rarely genuinely discussed and the pushback is generally in the theme here “Change bad. Me no like change.”

[oilandgas]

Originally Posted by jcal65

Shortly after I took delivery of my car I received an email from BMW North America asking me if I would like to participate in online surveys to help improve the brand and vehicle experience.

I guess BMW doesn't like me. My 2020 M550 was my 4th new BMW and I didn't get invited to participate.

[jcal65]

For me, it’s not about accepting change for newer, perhaps better technologies. I am not against electric cars. I don't consider myself a luddite. I am a skeptic when it comes to politicians dictating my future will be all electric.

I live in California and trust me, we are “all-in” on an electric future for everything. I don't think this is as extreme in other parts of the country. There is a mentality out here that if you plug it in, there is no real cost or impact to the environment or our quality of life. I see it differently.

My gut tells me this is like being in a herd of sheep heading towards a cliff lead by politicians who didn't read the "bill".

For all of us, I hope I am wrong and the push to go all-electric cures all of our future problems. Be assured, California is leading the way!

[HerkHealer]

Considering BMW just created a brand new V8 powerplant, the S68, I doubt we lose the V8 for at least 4 more years. The same S68 engine will be in the M5, and every M-Lite vehicle BMW produces. The M5 and probably the M550 (or whatever they're calling it) will have small electric hybrid motors as well. Rumors are that a 700+HP M5 is coming.....

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/15/b...vision-engine/

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by jcal65

For me, it’s not about accepting change for newer, perhaps better technologies. I am not against electric cars. I don't consider myself a luddite. I am a skeptic when it comes to politicians dictating my future will be all electric.

I live in California and trust me, we are “all-in” on an electric future for everything. I don't think this is as extreme in other parts of the country. There is a mentality out here that if you plug it in, there is no real cost or impact to the environment or our quality of life. I see it differently.

My gut tells me this is like being in a herd of sheep heading towards a cliff lead by politicians who didn't read the "bill".

For all of us, I hope I am wrong and the push to go all-electric cures all of our future problems. Be assured, California is leading the way!

That’s the thing about laws. They can be changed if things aren’t going to plan. So the push from government is to force industry to take action while keeping the card in the government’s pocket to delay or revoke it if more time is needed.

The auto industry wouldn’t be in this box if they had actually done what they should be doing in general. Innovating. GM had a popular electric car in the 90s that they decided to kill even with high demand. They major makers allowed an upstart like Tesla to build out a EV market that they now control while traditional auto makers had their heads up their backside assured that EVs were a “fad”. If they hadn’t done that they could have built and priced EVs as premium cars, like Tesla, and increased their profits during the transition.

Now, it doesn’t really matter too much what the government rules are honestly. If they don’t aggressively build out their EV lineup they’ll get beat up by the stock market and risk being crushed by Tesla. The market has build a premium into EVs and discounted ICE technology irrespective of government mandates. You can see this by Tesla still dominating EV sales in the US despite being one of the few manufacturers to have run out of EV tax credits.

The dark truth traditional automakers face is that the younger market sees EVs as more powerful and more what they want from a performance car than the older generation. If BMW doesn’t innovate you could realistically see Tesla buying them out in a few years. And that would be worse than ICE or no ICE. They risk the market turning into what the Smartphone market has turned into. There being a bunch of players, but only Apple and Samsung matter. Everyone else fights over their scraps.

[DealBMW]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I'm very much looking forward to the i5 to replace my 530e when the time comes to do so (I expect around 2026 or 2027).

I can't really see a whole lot of downsides to going fully electric. Most of your concerns are baseless IMHO.

You wouldn't need to charge all the time like you do for gas. You'd only need to charge away from home on a road trip. I'd imagine this will continue to be less and less of an issue over the next decade (the ICE 5-Series will be around for at least another generation in the G60). It will offer a lot of positive opportunities long term IMHO for everyone.

My 530e is not a full EV, but it costs me <$1 to fully charge my EV battery and that is equal to at least 2 gallons of gas which is ~$10-12 these days.

I expect BMW will deliver their DNA in their EVs. It won't be a Tesla aimed at driving you around and taking the joy of driving away. Instead it will be a driver's car utilizing the power and flexibility of an EV to re-imagine performance driving.

Lastly, the cars will truly last a long time! A fully electric 5 would probably only need wipers and tires for the first 100K miles…

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the maximum range on battery only is 21 mile, and a 530i gets 33+ mpg. That's $4 dollar difference.
Also the hybrid is 500lbs heavier, so if you drive more than 21 mile a day, it will actually burn more gas to travel further. Total range is 350 for a hybrid model and 486 for a 4 cylinder ICE.

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by tbinmd

Fwiw, my current car is a Tesla Model 3. I ordered an M550i two weeks ago. Charging was never a problem for me, but Tesla is somewhat unique in that way, among EVs. There are very few EVs out there now with >300 mile range, and no one has the charging network and speed that Tesla has. All of that said, I'm switching to an ICE car because the model 3 is a poorly made car. It drives well, the acceleration is nice, and from a UI perspective it's amazing. But Tesla just isn't there yet on the fundamentals of making a car. The interior feels cheap. There are all sorts of issues that are common with Teslas, all minor, but all pointing towards a lack of experience - faulty upper control arms, brake lights that fill up with water, bumpers that just fall off. Luckily I've avoided those, but many Tesla owners have not.

All that is to say that if BMW can combine their ability to make a solid car with the driving experience of an EV, it could be interesting. That said, the charging issue is still there. Tesla superchargers get up to 250kw, enabling very fast charging. No one else is close to that.

You won’t be disappointed with the M550, especially compared the model 3. I have a family member who owns one and I am not impressed for all the reasons you mentioned.

The M550 is special because it combines quality, comfort, luxury, sport, and super car performance without compromises. I fully expected this car to eat fuel like a monster but it's the same or better than last four V6’s I have owned.

Waiting for your new car to be built right now is brutal. My car took 83 days from production to delivery. It is worth the wait, good luck!

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by DealBMW

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the maximum range on battery only is 21 mile, and a 530i gets 33+ mpg. That's $4 dollar difference.
Also the hybrid is 500lbs heavier, so if you drive more than 21 mile a day, it will actually burn more gas to travel further. Total range is 350 for a hybrid model and 486 for a 4 cylinder ICE.

It will vary based on a few factors such as temperature, speed, or driving mode. I’ve exceeded 21 miles many times. But that’s in summer and not winter months. Range drops like a stone in the winter.

Also, the 530i is pretty painful compared to the 530e. At least it was for me in Philadelphia. I’ve had many 530i loaners and they were worse on fuel economy and performance. In the city the 530i would be around 10MPG and it would get better on the highway to be in the 20s as long as you got away from 76 where you could actually get out of the stop and go. The 530e ends up on ICE after the battery is exhausted and exceeds 40MPG there easily. But in that stop and go it really really shines. Nothing worse than burning gas sitting in the parking lot of 76.

[DealBMW]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

It will vary based on a few factors such as temperature, speed, or driving mode. I’ve exceeded 21 miles many times. But that’s in summer and not winter months. Range drops like a stone in the winter.

Also, the 530i is pretty painful compared to the 530e. At least it was for me in Philadelphia. I’ve had many 530i loaners and they were worse on fuel economy and performance. In the city the 530i would be around 10MPG and it would get better on the highway to be in the 20s as long as you got away from 76 where you could actually get out of the stop and go. The 530e ends up on ICE after the battery is exhausted and exceeds 40MPG there easily. But in that stop and go it really really shines.

I'm sorry, but these numbers don't add up. 530i doesn't run 10 mpg in the city and in the 20s on hwy. 530e doesn't go 40mpg on gas only..

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by DealBMW

I'm sorry, but these numbers don't add up. 530i doesn't run 10 mpg in the city and in the 20s on hwy. 530e doesn't go 40mpg on gas only..

Getting off topic but our 540 (non X) will get 34 mpg even at 80 mph for hours on end. 40 mpg in a 530 seems completely doable.

[DealBMW]

Originally Posted by G30 B58

Getting off topic but our 540 (non X) will get 34 mpg even at 80 mph for hours on end. 40 mpg in a 530 seems completely doable.

I know, but he said that his 530e was getting 40mpg, but the 530i loaner was in the 20s.
I think our 540i will do better on hwy than a hybrid with dead battery since it's 300 lbs lighter