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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Tuning Modifications Flashed Bootmod3 Tonight 😎

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      08-29-2020, 10:57 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiciercheez View Post
I recently flashed a BM3 map and ran into the oil level warning issue. I contacted them and they set up a remote screen share session like others have said. They were able to fix the issue in under an hour.
They have amazing customer support
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      09-01-2020, 04:06 PM   #46
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https://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1753810

Well, looks like Short540 just posted that the July software upgrade just killed his Bootmod3 funtionality by locking up the DME. Exactly what I feared. I'm glad I waited before pulling the trigger on Bootmod3.

Hopefully a solution some day short of sending off the DME unit in the mail for unlocking. No way I'm doing that.

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      12-21-2020, 07:14 AM   #47
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Will BMW block DME access with an update for a 2017 G30?
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      12-21-2020, 07:36 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post

I've never heard of Bootmod3 before so I'm a bit worried about their origins etc.
Back in the N54/N55 days, PTF were the number 1 custom tuners for the Cobb platform.

When the F chassis was released, they started working on their own tune and currently have over 100k bootmod3 users
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      12-21-2020, 10:24 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Back in the N54/N55 days, PTF were the number 1 custom tuners for the Cobb platform.

When the F chassis was released, they started working on their own tune and currently have over 100k users
Thanks for the feedback
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      12-21-2020, 11:47 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post
Thanks for the feedback But as I understand they are USA based company so it is not possible for them the lay their hands on a 1.6lt 520 with B48 engine. So I don't know how much the map is tested for my car. Maybe that's the reason behind the inconsistent dyno graphs for Stage1 and Stage2 mods
i suggest contacting them direct, they are located in Canada. They also have tuners in Europe which gives them access to more than one market
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      12-21-2020, 12:41 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
i suggest contacting them direct, they are located in Canada. They also have tuners in Europe which gives them access to more than one market
They don't have a map for 1.6lt B48 engine.
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      12-21-2020, 07:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post
I just did and they have a great customer relations

However, I sent them VIN of my car and they told me that they don't have a map for 1.6lt B48 engine As I shared above dyno data for 520 shared on their web page has the exact same values (170HP & 250NM torque) for 1.6lt engine (where their dyno data show 250HP and 350NM torque for 530 2.0 engine and this proves that the power is measured at crank instead of RW). So these data must belong to 1.6lt B48 520 not 2.0lt B48 520 (which is 184HP..)

I really am confused

They said that they can prepare a custom map, but without any dyno runs how efficient and reliable will that be? I don't want to risk an engine or transmission damage on the long term use with an untested map I is also unclear the amount of gain I'll have with this map since there is no dyno test available..
dynos are not perfect and every engine has variation

Are you sure you have a 1.6 liter B48 ? because I don't even think BMW makes this. The B series platform is a universal platform where each cylinder is ~500cc

Do you have a B38 (3 cylinder model) ?
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      12-21-2020, 07:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post
I just did and they have a great customer relations

However, I sent them VIN of my car and they told me that they don't have a map for 1.6lt B48 engine As I shared above dyno data for 520 shared on their web page has the exact same values (170HP & 250NM torque) for 1.6lt engine (where their dyno data show 250HP and 350NM torque for 530 2.0 engine and this proves that the power is measured at crank instead of RW). So these data must belong to 1.6lt B48 520 not 2.0lt B48 520 (which is 184HP..)

I really am confused

They said that they can prepare a custom map, but without any dyno runs how efficient and reliable will that be? I don't want to risk an engine or transmission damage on the long term use with an untested map I is also unclear the amount of gain I'll have with this map since there is no dyno test available..
Dude you don't have a B48 engine

You have an N20 which displaces 1.6L

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_5_Series_(F10)

"In Greece and Turkey, the 520i model used the 1.6 litre version of the BMW N20 four-cylinder engine, which produced 125 kW (168 hp) at 5,000 rpm and 250 N⋅m (184 lb⋅ft) at 1,500–4,700 rpm.[76]"
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      12-22-2020, 01:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1 View Post
Dude you don't have a B48 engine

You have an N20 which displaces 1.6L

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_5_Series_(F10)

"In Greece and Turkey, the 520i model used the 1.6 litre version of the BMW N20 four-cylinder engine, which produced 125 kW (168 hp) at 5,000 rpm and 250 N⋅m (184 lb⋅ft) at 1,500–4,700 rpm.[76]"
Yes I'm sure it's a 1.6lt B48 engine. N20 is not being used on G30.
Crankshaft, pistons, exhaust system is different. Rest of the engine and components are same with 2.0lt B48 including turbo, transmission, manifold, intake, injectors etc..
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      12-22-2020, 07:01 AM   #55
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      12-22-2020, 07:43 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post
OK, Halim from ProTuningFreaks told me that he can make a custom map for my car, and he did these cars many times before. But he can not find neither any dyno results nor tells me any target power range that can be achieved
you cant simply look at the graph and see 170hp and "ooo that must be mine"

dynos do NOT measure power at the engine and there is always some variation between engines even of the exact same model

170hp is pretty close to 184 so it's not like the difference between a B48 and a B58 for example, you can't draw conclusions from that

Given the rarity of the 1.6l B48 i doubt they would use that engine in their marketing material

As for target power gains don't expect too much

You actually have a lot of good things going for you on this 1.6L engine

It's got an oversquare design as opposed to undersquare on all the other B series engines

You're running the same turbo as the B48B20 (both B20A and B20B use the same turbo) so airflow isn't really going to be an issue (horsepower is largely dictated by how much air you're capable of pumping into the engine, on a turbocharged setup this is largely determined by your boost level).

It's got a rod/stroke ratio greater than 2 (almost 2.1) whereas the 2L and 3L B series are ~1.5.

So you can push the RPMs on this thing quite high, (let me run some calculations later but back of the envelope guess I'd say 8000rpm easy assuming the rods are not made of shittier material)

So those are the good points ... the bad point is that it's ultimately a 1.6L engine. You're simply not going to get to the same power output as the 2.0 simply because you're going to find it hard to run more boost than what the 2.0 can deliver (which you absolutely will need to unless you can bump the redline by 25% which is insane)
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      12-22-2020, 07:57 PM   #57
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FWIW

If we compare against the stock redline of 6500rpm on the B48 2.0L, the equivalent RPM on the B48 1.6L is 7500rpm

Given a lot of tunes bump the 2.0L redline to 7000rpm, the equivalent on the 1.6L is ~8000rpm


so with only ~15% increase in top revs, it will be hard to make up for the 25% deficit in displacement compared to the 2.0L

still, you're gonna get a very respectable specific output

I imagine most offshore/remote tuners will not be able to extract anything close to this performance though since the extra time/effort in developing even a base tune is going to be excessive compared to the limited market (or perhaps i'm wrong ... are there loads of 1.6L B48s putting around europe ?)

I actually calculated the peak forces on the rod
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      12-22-2020, 08:06 PM   #58
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My suggestion is to do all the hardware mods you plan to do and then get a custom tune (preferably with someone local that has a dyno so you can go back to them if any issues and have a relatively reasonable turnaround time)

Remote tuning is ok if all you need is fine tuning (assuming they already have a base map ready but it seems this is not the case)

I have no idea what your current redline is but if you want to bump it more than 500rpm it's really going to need some proper dyno time to get it right.
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      12-23-2020, 02:21 AM   #59
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Exclamation

Thanks for all the comments and info much appreciated
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      12-23-2020, 04:47 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post

Locak shops in Turkey having around 250HP with a pump gas. But I really don't trust these guys because they are not engineers and they don't care about the longevity of cars. That's why I got excited to see a tune from a reliable company who has many customers around the world.

Having something around 240HP is more than fine for me. Another problem with the 1.6lt engine is it's totally dead until 2500rpm it's not even moving.. Same turbo with 2.0 can not be filled as quickly as in 2.0 and messes things up until the mid-rpm range.

Thing is Halim said that he made these cars "many times before". If so why don't they have a OTS map? Wh do I need a custom tune? Why don't they have any dyno for this car? All of these made me suspicious

In the EU countries all 520's are 2.0. As you said not much 1.6 520i's are around.

BTW, Redline RPM for 1.6 is same with the 2.0: 6,500.
A lot to unpack

If the tuners are actually local (the guy setting up the map is physically there in the shop with you) instead of remote (I have many "local" shops that are a dude with a dyno here in hong kong but the guy actually putting together the map is in germany) then I would still rather go with them. Best thing to do to alleviate your concerns are twofold, one, learn more about this stuff on your own, and two ask the tuner questions BEFORE you commit. A good tuner who cares about their business will be happy to discuss this with their client. It's just like any other business. I wouldn't use a butcher that isn't enthusiastic about talking about which cut of meat is good for this or that cooking style. I wouldn't trust a tuner that wouldn't speak with me about why they're doing what they're doing.

240HP is probably the upper range of what you should expect (this is crank power), you're probably barely going to break 200whp

the turbo is sized for a 2.0 and not a 1.6, not much you can do about it, and 2500rpm isn't really that bad, you may be a bit spoilt but modern engines that pull from like 1200rpm. At the end of the day it's still a 1.6, it takes exhaust gas to build boost so ...

I have no idea who Halim is but the base maps are provided by protuningfreaks(i.e bootmod3) and there are tuners who operate on the platform who provide custom tune services. So it makes sense that PTF/BM3 don't have a base map for the 1.6 (given they primarily operate in markets that do not have this engine) but it doesn't mean that the tuners on the platform have not had experience with the 1.6. But for those tuners, EVERY tune they create is custom. They might use something they've used before as a starting point but it's still "custom" so you might just be worried over terminology

As for the redline i can send you the calculations to show why the 1.6l @ 7500rpm is experiencing the same stress as the 2.0l at 6500rpm

You can talk to Halim (I'm guessing he's a custom tuner on the BM3 platform) about bumping the redline. Given the valves and head and ports and litterally most everything else in the engine should be the same between the 1.6 and 2.0 (B48B20A), it should breath the same @ 7500rpm as the 2.0 @ 6000 rpm (7500*0.8 ~= 6000). The turbo doesn't care about what RPM or displacement is either, it just has a turbine speed, flow rate, and pressure ratio. The main concern when bumping the RPM is the conrods and pistons. Your stroke & rpm determine the piston speed (and average acceleration), your rod/stroke ratio determine how smooth or spiky the instantaneous acceleration curve is which is important because the peak acceleration is what's going to ultimately determine whether the rod fails or not)
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      12-23-2020, 04:49 AM   #61
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btw PM me your email or something if you want to discuss further, it seems like we hijack'd this thread which really isn't about your specific issue
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      12-23-2020, 11:25 AM   #62
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I totally agree with you.
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      12-23-2020, 08:04 PM   #63
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210hp seems a bit low

Attached piston acceleration chart comparing 2.0L v 1.6L @ a range of RPM

Compression ratio on the 1.6L is also lower @ ~9.1 (16A) vs ~11.1 (20A) so you should be able to dial up the boost more (the turbo is going to be able to handle given the lower displacement engine means you can roughly make the same boost as the 2.0L at a higher RPM, pushing power band higher up)

Breathing (Air flow rate through the system) should absolutely not be an issue as all the intake plumbing from filter to the valves are identical to the 2.0L. Meaning you should be able to pump the same amount of air as the 2.0L. The limit is whether the rods will be able to handle.

This next part is a bit seat of the pants but relative to the 2.0L if you can bump the RPMs by ~1000 you should only have about 15% lower peak power assuming you don't increase boost to take advantage of the lower CR.
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      12-23-2020, 09:00 PM   #64
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fwiw as well, if you bump your RPMs in the flash tune I'm guessing you'll almost certainly need a transmission tune as well as your shift points will be completely different so reach out to XHP to see if they can facilitate this
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      12-24-2020, 02:36 AM   #65
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Thanks for all the calculations and information
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      01-02-2021, 04:24 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlover06 View Post
Thanks for all the calculations and information

Tuning the transmission will be another problem since xHP doesn't list my car. And combining two unknowns has a much greater potential for future problems

I really don't understand how local tuning shops are flashing without making any changes on the transmission and having 250+ HP 1.6lt 520s and none of them still blow the engine or had any problems in 2 years so far
The transmissions are way overbuilt, we share the same tranny as the 40i. There is no chance you will overstress the tranny. The only reason I brought up the tranny flash is for changing the shift point assuming you will bump the rev limit.
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