[Traceaz]

Here are the times from 0 - 1000 meters that someone posted in another thread.

2006 E46 BMW M3 smg/manual: 24.2 seconds
2007 E92 BMW 335i manual: 24.5 seconds
2007 E92 BMW 335i auto: 24.6 seconds
2007 BMW 650i auto: 24.5 seconds

Are there any other long-time manual drivers who are now considering this car as an auto? Reading this is making me second-guess getting a manual. I've always preferred stick shifts to manuals over the years since they were faster than automatics and kept you closer to the driving experience and gave you more control over the car I felt. However, in looking at the times between manual vs auto for the 335i, there is only .1 second difference from 0 to 1000 meters! This is pretty shocking to me and making me rethink if I shoud get a manual like I always have, or get an automatic with the sport package and the paddle shifters if the cars is essentially the same speed.

I understand this new automatic transmission shifts in less than 100 milliseconds? The way I take this, is the manual is faster during the drives of each gear and you go up through the revs, but then when you shift, the auto shifts at 100 ms which is much faster than probably any human can do it, so it catches up. Overall the manual comes out faster, but .1 second from 0-1000 meters? Thats pretty much nothing. Plus it may be worth it to have the automatic during any stop-and-go traffic driving. Buying a manual has always been a no-brainer for me, but now with the speeds they are posting in manual vs. auto, I'm sort of confused at which way I should go. Does anyone know if the new transmission has rev-matching, and how important is this really?

Anyone have any thoughts on all of this? Are there any other long-time manual drivers who are now considering this car as an auto? Anyone want to enlighten me on their thoughts or anything that goes into their decision with the new knowledge about the auto transmission. I'm sort of feeling like a lot of the benefits of having a manual have mostly been removed....

[bimmer4me]

With an automatic you can't do a "money shift"

[ToddPhilly]

May be just as fast, but to me it takes away some of the fun of driving one of these wonderful cars.

[unxdawg]

I'm not looking at an E92, but I just placed my order for an E90 330i. After driving manuals for the last 13 yrs, I decided to go with the steptronic this time. As far as autos go, it seems to be a great and precise transmission. I have no doubt that I will miss the manual at times, but I think the fact that the gross majority of BMWs in the US are purchased with steptronic lends some credibility to BMW being able to maintain the high performance character of the car without a manual transmission.

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by TracerHawk

Here are the times from 0 - 1000 meters that someone posted in another thread.

2006 E46 BMW M3 smg/manual: 24.2 seconds
2007 E92 BMW 335i manual: 24.5 seconds
2007 E92 BMW 335i auto: 24.6 seconds
2007 BMW 650i auto: 24.5 seconds

Are there any other long-time manual drivers who are now considering this car as an auto? Reading this is making me second-guess getting a manual. I've always preferred stick shifts to manuals over the years since they were faster than automatics and kept you closer to the driving experience and gave you more control over the car I felt. However, in looking at the times between manual vs auto for the 335i, there is only .1 second difference from 0 to 1000 meters! This is pretty shocking to me and making me rethink if I shoud get a manual like I always have, or get an automatic with the sport package and the paddle shifters if the cars is essentially the same speed.

I understand this new automatic transmission shifts in less than 100 milliseconds? The way I take this, is the manual is faster during the drives of each gear and you go up through the revs, but then when you shift, the auto shifts at 100 ms which is much faster than probably any human can do it, so it catches up. Overall the manual comes out faster, but .1 second from 0-1000 meters? Thats pretty much nothing. Plus it may be worth it to have the automatic during any stop-and-go traffic driving. Buying a manual has always been a no-brainer for me, but now with the speeds they are posting in manual vs. auto, I'm sort of confused at which way I should go. Does anyone know if the new transmission has rev-matching, and how important is this really?

Anyone have any thoughts on all of this? Are there any other long-time manual drivers who are now considering this car as an auto? Anyone want to enlighten me on their thoughts or anything that goes into their decision with the new knowledge about the auto transmission. I'm sort of feeling like a lot of the benefits of having a manual have mostly been removed....

You would then be surprised at my 6er (645) STEP performance as I can provide pretty astounding numbers against BMWs claimed specs. Unfortunately I do not have a manual 6er testing as I am so I cannot provide direct comparisons. But just to summarize I have several runs in the 1/4 at 13.1 region with 114mph my best trap speed. 0-60 frequently in the 5.0s region (several recorded) and even a couple in the 4.9 region. All these of course are under the most ideal weather conditions testing over about the last 6 months. Now that it is hot and humid I am dropping back to 5.2s and 13.7s. Those testing with the 545 (same engine) do have some comparos between STEP and manual and so far the manual has had a difficult time meeting or beating the STEP numbers consistantly. But I do think the best manual has bested the best STEP. The problem is consistancy, too difficult for the "average" driver to obtain consistant results as too many variables in launching the manual. But better manual drivers "should" beat the STEP more often than not - but boy is it close now.

What is the source for your 100ms shift time on the e92 STEP? If so it is faster than mine. We have a beefier STEP in the e60 & e63 series but sure would like some faster shifting. If the e92 STEP has been tuned similar to the new JAG XK STEP than yes, I believe the 100ms shift times. That is what they are claiming.

[E90Fleet]

BMW's press release says its 100 miliseconds

[bimmer4me]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

BMW's press release says its 100 miliseconds

What about SMG III/DSG; how long does the clutchless manual take to shift??

[E90Fleet]

For comparason, the fastest the E46 M3 SMG can shift is 80 milliseconds

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

BMW's press release says its 100 miliseconds

Good grief, I need to read slower

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by bimmer4me

What about SMG III

The M5 or M6 can go down to 65 Milliseconds, but that jerks the whole car

[bimmer4me]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

The M5 or M6 can go down to 65 Milliseconds, but that jerks the whole car

lol...if that's the case then I think I'd like to be jerked.

[timmerweb]

Keep in mind that its pretty easy for an automatic transmission to choose the optimum gears and shift points when you're just accelerating hard from a standing start. But during more varied driving, the first time that automatic has you in the wrong gear, you might be regretting that you didn't get a manual.

Even if a manual was slightly slower than an automatic (which doesn't yet seem to be the case), its still better on gas, its still cheaper, still less frustrating and still more fun. But the gap is closing.


-Tim

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by timmerweb

Keep in mind that its pretty easy for an automatic transmission to choose the optimum gears and shift points when you're just accelerating hard from a standing start. But during more varied driving, the first time that automatic has you in the wrong gear, you might be regretting that you didn't get a manual.

Even if a manual was slightly slower than an automatic (which doesn't yet seem to be the case), its still better on gas, its still cheaper, still less frustrating and still more fun. But the gap is closing.


-Tim

Read this and tell us if you still feel that way. New technology has BMWs auto predicting many varied driving maneuvers.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18357

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by timmerweb

Keep in mind that its pretty easy for an automatic transmission to choose the optimum gears and shift points when you're just accelerating hard from a standing start. But during more varied driving, the first time that automatic has you in the wrong gear, you might be regretting that you didn't get a manual.

Even if a manual was slightly slower than an automatic (which doesn't yet seem to be the case), its still better on gas, its still cheaper, still less frustrating and still more fun. But the gap is closing.


-Tim

I couldn't have said it better.

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by timmerweb

Even if a manual was slightly slower than an automatic (which doesn't yet seem to be the case), its still better on gas, its still cheaper, still less frustrating and still more fun. But the gap is closing.

Actually the 335 has almost identical MPG for Manual and Auto based on UK spec sheet. In fact city driving gives better MPG for the auto. I agree about a manual being cheaper and more fun. The paddle shifters in the 335 auto could be lots of fun too. The gap is definitely closing especially on the 335.

[victri]

I see that gap closing with every new generation of car. For me, I don't doubt that the new auto trannies can shift faster than a manual, but there are just certain times while driving that you want to hold a gear, heel toe, or just plain coast. Manuals might not be faster, but they're fun! Total control. An auto tranny won't know what kind of bends are coming up.

Having said that, my last 4 cars were all autos because I have to deal with a ton of traffic, and I don't go to a track much nowadays. I still have the occassional spirited run, and the auto gives me enough to put a smile on my face. If I had the luxury of having a second "fun" car, it'll be a manual.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by victri

but there are just certain times while driving that you want to hold a gear, heel toe, or just plain coast. Manuals might not be faster, but they're fun! Total control. An auto tranny won't know what kind of bends are coming up.

.

Thats when you use the pedals

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by timmerweb

Keep in mind that its pretty easy for an automatic transmission to choose the optimum gears and shift points when you're just accelerating hard from a standing start. But during more varied driving, the first time that automatic has you in the wrong gear, you might be regretting that you didn't get a manual.

Even if a manual was slightly slower than an automatic (which doesn't yet seem to be the case), its still better on gas, its still cheaper, still less frustrating and still more fun. But the gap is closing.


-Tim

Well, don't forget it is a STEP. That means we can shift manually within reason. The reason being redline on upshifts and no damage limits on downshifts (BMWs software limits) which we as drivers cannot override. So within some bounds we have certain amount of control of the RPM range we enter/exit in the non-straight line situation. But I freely admit, not to the extent a manual tranny / driver combo has.

[alpinewhite3]

actually the step will hold the gears in d/s mode and when you're driving through a really twisty road it's actually quite impressive. The d/s knows when to hold and when to shift. Coming out of a corner, you get instant pushed back in your seat power. And goin into a corner it will slow down the car by downshifting the engine if need be. I don't know what i would do if bmw didnt offer a D/s mode. I wonder why more cars dont offer a similiar mode. Driving other auto's after driving bmw's d/s mode makes them seem boring, dull, and unresponsive.

[arbitrage]

When I was test driving the 330 I took a manual in the i and a step in the xi. The step was useless in auto mode but when in d/s mode it was really good. The direction you pull/push the shifter made way more sense than most autos that do it the reverse way. It seemed like a great transmission. However, I will never give up my manual, I like to feel like I'm actually doing something and have contributed to a great up/downshift.

I think the paddles would be fun but sometimes who wants both hands up on the wheel the whole time. Test driving the IS350 didn't impress me at all with the paddles.

Does anyone know if the BMWs paddles are mounted to the wheel or column. I think it can be a problem with wheel mounted paddles if you are in tight turns and want to shift. Could get confusing. We don't have F1 steering with max 90deg of steering rotation!

[donger274]

isnt the manual tranny a bit lighter? i do believe the gap is closer, and a bit too fast. hopefully future generations will enjoy MT.

[akhbhaat]

The more power (low end torque to be precise) an engine has, the less of a difference the manual trans makes. The main reason is that it's much easier to launch an automatic than it is a manual - something that's really important when a car has enough power to really roast the tires if handled carelessly.

Note that the manual trans will still be slightly faster and more efficient at highway speeds - but I dare say you'd be hard pressed to find any difference whatsoever below 80 mph. Modern automatics are truly a thing of wonder - my SL500, for example, with the 7G-Tronic gearbox, will run with a manual 5.7 GTO (350 hp) into the triple digits despite a significant power and weight disadvantage.

That said - I'll still take the three pedal. Though I'll have to work a lot harder to pull everything out of it, and I won't have much to show for it, there's something satisfying about rowing your own gears, or nailing the perfect downshift. And it gives you a lot more to do, whether you're on the track or cruising through the city. Plus it's cheaper and I won't have to worry about it failing on me after five years of regular use.