BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion Unmanned aircraft: why US may not

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-18-2020, 07:54 PM   #1
WestRace
Major
592
Rep
1,081
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Unmanned aircraft: why US may not

I was thinking with unmanned aircrafts, there is really no inherent advantage. It all comes down who got better AI and computers. It's no Tom Cruise vs. some Chinese man.

Maybe this is where the US no longer has any advantage over China or Soviet.

But of course, in warfare, it's more than just airplanes.
Appreciate 0
      01-18-2020, 08:54 PM   #2
adc100
Colonel
1734
Rep
2,059
Posts

Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

We have an insurmountable advantage over anyone...unless china or Russians chose to launch ICBMs.

I have said for many years that fighter planes are the battleships (obsolete) of the skies. They are not needed. Cruise and tomahawk missles can do any attack that manned aircraft can do. The F-15 Strike Eagle costs 100 million not to mention the millions spent on training a fighter pilot.

Cost of a cruise or tomahawk missle is 1.5 million.

Aircraft carriers again are the Battle Ships (obsolete)- Basically 14 billion $$$targets. They require a huge escort of assets just to protect them.

Military planners have always been a step behind as far back as you want to go.

The future is in Piloltless drones, fast attack subs and Ohio Class subs carrying tomahawk. The Ohio class sub can carry 154 tomahawks and is deployed in the China sea. That's where its at.
Appreciate 2
      01-19-2020, 04:54 AM   #3
NormanConquest
Brigadier General
2449
Rep
3,539
Posts

Drives: 340i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
We have an insurmountable advantage over anyone...unless china or Russians chose to launch ICBMs.

I have said for many years that fighter planes are the battleships (obsolete) of the skies. They are not needed. Cruise and tomahawk missles can do any attack that manned aircraft can do. The F-15 Strike Eagle costs 100 million not to mention the millions spent on training a fighter pilot.

Cost of a cruise or tomahawk missle is 1.5 million.

Aircraft carriers again are the Battle Ships (obsolete)- Basically 14 billion $$$targets. They require a huge escort of assets just to protect them.

Military planners have always been a step behind as far back as you want to go.

The future is in Piloltless drones, fast attack subs and Ohio Class subs carrying tomahawk. The Ohio class sub can carry 154 tomahawks and is deployed in the China sea. That's where its at.
Tomahawks can't be employeed and unable to vote which is why the keep the obsolete Carrier and man fighters around.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 05:02 AM   #4
Salty Dog
Captain
Salty Dog's Avatar
3517
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Mini,MBGLK, Porsche 993
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Is this some debate about the difference between an all out shooting war between super powers or the reality of modern day conflicts? Aircraft Carriers have multiple rolls, but I think primarily they project strength on the doorstep of the enemy and can be easily moved to make that show of force globally. They also allow the movement of air support for troops who are on the ground don't they? And I think that is always going to be their roll and can't easily be replaced.
Appreciate 3
vreihen161588.50
N54Yankee2226.00
MKSixer20198.00

      01-19-2020, 07:54 AM   #5
jimbobiggens
First Lieutenant
jimbobiggens's Avatar
United_States
502
Rep
330
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: jackson tn

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Countries are always rattling their sabers at each other. An aircraft carrier group is just a really big saber. Peace through intimidation.
A drone, on the other hand, is stealthy, no good for saber rattling.
__________________
I'm not completely useless, I can be used as a bad example.
Appreciate 3
vreihen161588.50
N54Yankee2226.00
Salty Dog3517.00

      01-19-2020, 08:03 AM   #6
adc100
Colonel
1734
Rep
2,059
Posts

Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Is this some debate about the difference between an all out shooting war between super powers or the reality of modern day conflicts? Aircraft Carriers have multiple rolls, but I think primarily they project strength on the doorstep of the enemy and can be easily moved to make that show of force globally. They also allow the movement of air support for troops who are on the ground don't they? And I think that is always going to be their roll and can't easily be replaced.
Yea..I hear that projection of strength thing all the time. Do we need a dozen?
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 08:26 AM   #7
Salty Dog
Captain
Salty Dog's Avatar
3517
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Mini,MBGLK, Porsche 993
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Yea..I hear that projection of strength thing all the time. Do we need a dozen?
I don't know, but somebody thinks so.
Appreciate 2
vreihen161588.50
N54Yankee2226.00

      01-19-2020, 10:30 AM   #8
N54Yankee
Lieutenant Colonel
N54Yankee's Avatar
United_States
2226
Rep
1,617
Posts

Drives: N54 135|Cobb|M3 control arms
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobiggens View Post
Countries are always rattling their sabers at each other. An aircraft carrier group is just a really big saber. Peace through intimidation.
A drone, on the other hand, is stealthy, no good for saber rattling.
TRís Great White Fleet and Big Stick theory still works today and our Carriers are its personification. Nothing rattles the enemies of this Country like the thought of a CVN Battle Group sitting off their shore standing ready, willing and more than able. Those who rule the seas rules the globe.
__________________
__________________
"The Constitution was never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.Ē Samuel Adams
Appreciate 3
Salty Dog3517.00
MKSixer20198.00

      01-19-2020, 10:47 AM   #9
corn18
First Lieutenant
corn18's Avatar
500
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: 2020 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (0)

There is usually a carrier 150 miles off of either coast of the US at any given time conducting training. Imagine if it was North Korean or Iranian. That's how they feel.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 12:09 PM   #10
Joe-T
Private First Class
200
Rep
150
Posts

Drives: F16 X6
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

the whole humanitarian side of carrier group seems to be missing
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 12:24 PM   #11
dsad1
Colonel
1023
Rep
2,173
Posts

Drives: car
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

My opinion is that we lose a lot of our advantage with cyber warfare. We depend on technology much more than most of our enemies.

One example would be cash, less and less people are carrying much cash on them. Take out our banking system and we will start feeling the affects of war instantly.
Appreciate 1
lakefront259.50

      01-19-2020, 12:55 PM   #12
vreihen16
Lieutenant
vreihen16's Avatar
United_States
1589
Rep
450
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
In case anyone missed the articles, our troops in Iraq lost communications with our drones over Iran during their missile strikes, due to a "lucky" missile hit that severed a fiber optic cable used by the drone controllers. It took a while for them to find/fix the break so they could recall the drones back to the base before they ran out of fuel.....
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 18K miles
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 02:21 PM   #13
dsad1
Colonel
1023
Rep
2,173
Posts

Drives: car
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
In case anyone missed the articles, our troops in Iraq lost communications with our drones over Iran during their missile strikes, due to a "lucky" missile hit that severed a fiber optic cable used by the drone controllers. It took a while for them to find/fix the break so they could recall the drones back to the base before they ran out of fuel.....
I don't see an article, what were our drones doing over Iran at the time? Were we ready to strike them back, if we had casualties?
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 02:54 PM   #14
vreihen16
Lieutenant
vreihen16's Avatar
United_States
1589
Rep
450
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
I don't see an article, what were our drones doing over Iran at the time? Were we ready to strike them back, if we had casualties?
Oops, my bad. The drones were over Iraq, and kept flying during the Iranian missile attack in case of a ground assault on the Iraqi bases. Here's the article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...le-strike.html
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 18K miles
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 04:45 PM   #15
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
United_States
1889
Rep
2,732
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC, '07 E93 328i
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Is this some debate about the difference between an all out shooting war between super powers or the reality of modern day conflicts? Aircraft Carriers have multiple rolls, but I think primarily they project strength on the doorstep of the enemy and can be easily moved to make that show of force globally. They also allow the movement of air support for troops who are on the ground don't they? And I think that is always going to be their roll and can't easily be replaced.
As long as air superiority in the form of land-based craft matters, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobiggens View Post
A drone, on the other hand, is stealthy, no good for saber rattling.
Until it launches a missile.
Appreciate 1
Salty Dog3517.00

      01-19-2020, 04:53 PM   #16
Salty Dog
Captain
Salty Dog's Avatar
3517
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Mini,MBGLK, Porsche 993
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
As long as air superiority in the form of land-based craft matters, yes.


Until it launches a missile.
Sneaky bastards.....like snipers.....I love those guys.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 04:54 PM   #17
c1pher
Primo Generalissimo
United_States
1800
Rep
2,582
Posts

Drives: Porsche Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
A CVN is the ultimate defendable RV with extensive toy hauler.
Appreciate 2
Salty Dog3517.00
vreihen161588.50

      01-19-2020, 04:55 PM   #18
Salty Dog
Captain
Salty Dog's Avatar
3517
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Mini,MBGLK, Porsche 993
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
A CVN is the ultimate defendable RV with extensive toy hauler.
Seriously though, the US needs to put alcohol back on the warships.....
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 04:57 PM   #19
c1pher
Primo Generalissimo
United_States
1800
Rep
2,582
Posts

Drives: Porsche Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Seriously though, the US needs to put alcohol back on the warships.....
Yeah, no they donít. Didnít go well with other drugs, alcohol wonít be much better.

Just my opinion.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 05:01 PM   #20
Salty Dog
Captain
Salty Dog's Avatar
3517
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Mini,MBGLK, Porsche 993
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
Yeah, no they donít. Didnít go well with other drugs, alcohol wonít be much better.

Just my opinion.
Canada, Britain and the Aussies still have it. I think it curbs the desire for illicit drugs and the associated activities surrounding it.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 05:10 PM   #21
vreihen16
Lieutenant
vreihen16's Avatar
United_States
1589
Rep
450
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Seriously though, the US needs to put alcohol back on the warships.....
Did you ever see the PBS documentary series "Carrier" on the telly? If that is an accurate depiction of life on the USS Nimitz, the last thing that many of the younger sailors need is more "liquid encouragement" while at sea.....
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 18K miles
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2020, 05:24 PM   #22
Salty Dog
Captain
Salty Dog's Avatar
3517
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Mini,MBGLK, Porsche 993
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
Did you ever see the PBS documentary series "Carrier" on the telly? If that is an accurate depiction of life on the USS Nimitz, the last thing that many of the younger sailors need is more "liquid encouragement" while at sea.....
I've been on Canadian and British warships, and my son served in the Canadian Navy, the booze really isn't a problem and one could argue it's good for moral....maybe US warships are different though.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST