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      02-12-2020, 11:53 AM   #9439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
As certain as you are Trump bribed Zelensky
Exactly my point (though I don't think bribe is correct -- I think that falls under blackmail)
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      02-12-2020, 12:10 PM   #9440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
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Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Share your evidence, please. At this point, who is willing to testify to that?
(1) In the House Intel Committee impeachment hearing, Schiff stated he would not let the identity (i.e. name: Eric Ciaramella) of the Whistleblower be revealed. He said he did not know who the WB was, yet admitted on TV his staff met with the WB. Any 5th grader figured out Shiff's lie that he didn't know who the WB is because if you don't know who the WB is how can you determine his name is being used during the questioning of witnesses during the trial.

(2) Sen. Ron Paul's question concerning the WB was not allowed in the Senate impeachment trial.

(3) Of the 18 House impeachment witnesses, only 17 of the witnesses testimony was introduced as evidence in the Senate impeachment trial. One (1) witness testimony was held from evidence. That would be the testimony from the IC OIG testimony, which is said to show that Schiff and his staff know who the WB is and they assisted the WB in preparation of the WB complaint.
Your evidentiary trail is pretty weak there. Who is willing to testify?

The rand Paul thing was look at the shiny object, because I'm gonna distract you from the real issue.
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      02-12-2020, 12:23 PM   #9441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Your evidentiary trail is pretty weak there. Who is willing to testify?

The rand Paul thing was look at the shiny object, because I'm gonna distract you from the real issue.
No, not really, any 5th Grader can understand it. Really, it's not hard, squint if you have to.

Also, Rand Paul's question was highly appropriate, since if we are going to remove a President, we ought to know if the origins of the Articles of impeachment were legitimate. If you think drafting the basis for articles of impeachment in secrecy is okay, then perhaps you'd be better suited living in some 3rd-world country, rather than letting the likes of Pelosi, Schumer, and Schiff turn the USA into one.
So the whistleblower complaint, which matched the phone call, is relevant in which way?
And all the witness testimony matched the whistleblower complaint.

The whistleblower is certainly a shiny object for the Trumpsters.
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      02-12-2020, 01:58 PM   #9442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So I can play this game too; what your evidence the WB complaint matches the phone call transcript. It has been established the WB got the information 2nd hand, so he was not privy to the original voice call and therefore did not have the luxury of hearing the voice context (i.e. inflection, surprise, astonishment, etc.) that was present in the conversation. Most likely, Lt. Vindmen was the original source of the phone call information that the WB eventually ended up using in his complaint. Vindmen doesn't dictate US Foreign policy, the President does, which is why it is important to understand why Eric Ciaramella felt it necessary to make a WB complaint and who assisted him in making it.

Last time we checked, getting charged by false accusations is illegal.

And your "shiny object" retorts are getting boring.

Everything the wistleblower complained about matched the call.

I agree that it was most likely Vindman who was one of the original people to talk to the whistleblower (I believe there were 2 or 3).

And of course the president has the right to set foreign policy. Show me someone who does not believe that.

He does NOT have the right to extort other countries with US taxpayer dollars for his own nefarious purposes.

And why is Trump buying into the Russion narrative about 2016? That is just STUPID!!
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      02-12-2020, 02:07 PM   #9443
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Federal deficit spikes 23% January 2019 to January 2020.
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      02-12-2020, 02:44 PM   #9444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quick6 View Post
Federal deficit spikes 23% January 2019 to January 2020.
- It would have been worse under HRC
- It will be worse if Trump loses in November
- That's Obama's fault
- 23% is actually a pretty normal increase historically speaking
- Your news is fake
- Your calculations are wrong
- Your definition of Federal deficit is wrong
- Who cares the economy is booming, why are you complaining, stop hating
- The POTUS and his policies actually have little to do with the deficit (unless he's Obama, then he caused it all, but only if its bad).

Whew. Just wanted to try to beat the rush to discredit your post. In before everyone else! Carry on folks. Interested to see if I covered all the possible ways to spin our mounting deficit as being not directly caused by our POTUS and his fiscal policies that mortgage the future for short term gain.
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      02-12-2020, 03:21 PM   #9445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
- It would have been worse under HRC
- It will be worse if Trump loses in November
- That's Obama's fault
- 23% is actually a pretty normal increase historically speaking
- Your news is fake
- Your calculations are wrong
- Your definition of Federal deficit is wrong
- Who cares the economy is booming, why are you complaining, stop hating
- The POTUS and his policies actually have little to do with the deficit (unless he's Obama, then he caused it all, but only if its bad).

Whew. Just wanted to try to beat the rush to discredit your post. In before everyone else! Carry on folks. Interested to see if I covered all the possible ways to spin our mounting deficit as being not directly caused by our POTUS and his fiscal policies that mortgage the future for short term gain.
This is what people do not understand the issue, the overspending starting back in the 1960. Every congress and administration have voted in new entitlement over the last 60 yrs. Yes Obama made it worse with "Affordable Health Care Act". Trump made it worse by pumping more money into the military. The only way Trump or anyone we voted in could due to turn it around is to shut down most all those programs. However, the president can not stop the spending since Congress created laws which say the money must be spent no matter way.

The reason Trump was impeached was due to the fact he held back fund that Congress said must be spent, if he did not release the money by the end of Sept then he would have broken the law and then they could have gotten him for violating the law.

Just so everyone understand SSI and Medicare/Medicaid makes up 60% of government spend. Much of this cost pays all the people in government who administrate these programs. Trump put in a hiring freeze anyone who leaves the government for any ready can not be replaced.

https://www.thebalance.com/current-f...ending-3305772
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      02-12-2020, 03:33 PM   #9446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
- It would have been worse under HRC
- It will be worse if Trump loses in November
- That's Obama's fault
- 23% is actually a pretty normal increase historically speaking
- Your news is fake
- Your calculations are wrong
- Your definition of Federal deficit is wrong
- Who cares the economy is booming, why are you complaining, stop hating
- The POTUS and his policies actually have little to do with the deficit (unless he's Obama, then he caused it all, but only if its bad).

Whew. Just wanted to try to beat the rush to discredit your post. In before everyone else! Carry on folks. Interested to see if I covered all the possible ways to spin our mounting deficit as being not directly caused by our POTUS and his fiscal policies that mortgage the future for short term gain.
This is what people do not understand the issue, the overspending starting back in the 1960. Every congress and administration have voted in new entitlement over the last 60 yrs. Yes Obama made it worse with "Affordable Health Care Act". Trump made it worse by pumping more money into the military. The only way Trump or anyone we voted in could due to turn it around is to shut down most all those programs. However, the president can not stop the spending since Congress created laws which say the money must be spent no matter way.

The reason Trump was impeached was due to the fact he held back fund that Congress said must be spent, if he did not release the money by the end of Sept then he would have broken the law and then they could have gotten him for violating the law.

Just so everyone understand SSI and Medicare/Medicaid makes up 60% of government spend. Much of this cost pays all the people in government who administrate these programs. Trump put in a hiring freeze anyone who leaves the government for any ready can not be replaced.

https://www.thebalance.com/current-f...ending-3305772
So I'll add you to the "this is normal" category?
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      02-12-2020, 03:47 PM   #9447
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Some of you guys have conveniently odd demands for transparency. You demand full transparency from congress while demanding zero of the president.
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      02-12-2020, 03:51 PM   #9448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
He lied about the whistleblower, knew who it was, worked closely with them, didn't reveal because linked to Biden, whistleblower would face action for his activity.
There is zero evidence to support your claim. Just because Hannity pushes this bullshit every night doesn't make it true.
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      02-12-2020, 04:03 PM   #9449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Everything the wistleblower complained about matched the call.

I agree that it was most likely Vindman who was one of the original people to talk to the whistleblower (I believe there were 2 or 3).

And of course the president has the right to set foreign policy. Show me someone who does not believe that.

He does NOT have the right to extort other countries with US taxpayer dollars for his own nefarious purposes.

And why is Trump buying into the Russion narrative about 2016? That is just STUPID!!

You do know that every president and its administration has extorted other countries to do the US bidding. Kind like Obama telling Putin to back off during an election year until he gets reelected then he will have more leverage to do a deal with Russia on missile defense. Of Joe tell Ukraine fire an AG or they will not get their money. The list goes on and on how the US hold money over countries head to do what our country wants them to do politically. This is why most countries hate the US, I travel for business and most people outside the U.S. said they like us but hate our government for these kinds of activities

To assume Trump holding back money for investigating corruption (which ever President is required to fight corruption when US tax dollar are involved) was nefarious then you have to believe there was nothing wrong with Hunter Bidden being paid Millions to be on the board of known corrupt entity in the Ukraine at the same time as his Dad having influence over the government of the Ukraine who was in the process of investigating the entities and the owners. I personally think Hunter was just a pawn in what they were doing, he comes across kind of dumb.

You have to look at the fact not the personalities. Our government under various administrations have been play games and hiding it from public, the curtain has been pulled back in the name of getting Trump and instead of looking at the color of the curtain you need to look behind it and see what the idiots have been doing all these years.

Lastly, we know nothing of the calls all the other presidents had with other leaders so we do not know exactly what they said. we only know in this case since someone leak all the information and they been leaking all the calls to the media which has not happen in the past.

Last edited by Maestro; 02-12-2020 at 04:17 PM..
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      02-12-2020, 04:15 PM   #9450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
To assume Trump holding back money for investigating corruption (which ever President is required to fight corruption when US tax dollar are involved) was nefarious then you have to believe there was nothing wrong with Hunter Bidden being paid Millions to be on the board of known corrupt entity in the Ukraine at the same time as his Dad having influence over the government of the Ukraine who was in the process of investigating the entities and the owners. I personally think Hunter was just a pawn in what they were doing, he comes across kind of dumb.
I'll quote myself:

Here's the issue with that: Absolutely NOTHING changed in terms of corruption between the hold and the day the funds were released. The only thing that did change is that the scheme came to light.

Oh, and this minor detail as well:
Quote:
Long before President Trump ordered a halt to security assistance, the Secretary of Defense—in coordination with Secretary Pompeo—twice certified that Ukraine had made sufficient reforms to decrease corruption and increase accountability, and that the country could ensure accountability for U.S. provided military equipment. Further, after OMB held the assistance to Ukraine in July, the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. Finally, before the July 2019 hold, the Trump administration had approved sending foreign assistance to Ukraine nearly 50 separate times without ever holding it because of concerns that it would be diverted due to corruption.
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      02-12-2020, 04:15 PM   #9451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So I'll add you to the "this is normal" category?
No I want to see it stop, but everyone think it just take the President to stop it is mistaken we have 535 other idiots make it worse all with their own stupid agendas. Then add in the millions of people who like their free stupid the rest of us pay for who keep voting for the people that give them free stuff. Look the Bernie Bro, they all wait for free college and free everything.

I am all about smaller government and everything we can do to make that happen. I like the fact Trump turn off the faucet of increase hiring at the government. Obama hire lots of people who lost their job in the last crash that was his solution to help people make the rest of us who work pay for the ones who went to work for the government.

The problem is, once trump is gone the next person will just turn the faucet back on. You need the other 535 idiot to change the laws. I said idiot in a general sense since there are some trying to change things.
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      02-12-2020, 04:20 PM   #9452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
You do know that even president and its admiration has extorted other countries to do the US bidding. Kind like Obama telling Putin to back off during an election year until he gets reelected then he will have more leverage to do a deal with Russia on missile defense. Of Joe tell Ukraine fire a AG or they will not get their money. The list goes on and on how the US hold money over countries head to do what our country wants them to do politically. This is why most countries hate the US, I travel for business and most people outside the U.S. said they like us but hate our government for these kinds of activities

To assume Trump holding back money for investigating corruption (which ever President is required to fight corruption when US tax dollar are involved) was nefarious then you have to believe there was nothing wrong with Hunter Bidden being paid Millions to be on the board of known corrupt entity in the Ukraine at the same time as his Dad having influence over the government of the Ukraine who was in the process of investigating the entities and the owners. I personally think Hunter was just a pawn in what they were doing, he comes across kind of dumb.

You have to look at the fact not the personalities. Our government under various administrations have been play games and hiding it from public, the curtain has been pulled back in the name of getting Trump and instead of looking at the color of the curtain you need to look behind it and see what the idiots have been doing all these years.

Lastly, we know nothing of the calls all the other presidents had with other leaders so we do not know exactly what they said. we only know in this case since someone leak all the information and they been leaking all the calls to the media which has not happen in the past.
Frankly, your explanation sounds straight out of the mouth of Sean Hannity.
This is NOTHING like Obama telling Putin to knock it off.

What is Hunter Biden accused of again? Are there witnesses willing to testify under oath to crimes Hunter has committed?

Have you read the transcript, noticed the timeline, and heard the witness testimony against Trump?

He was clearly extorting Ukraine to announce an investigation into Joe Biden, in order to smear Joe Biden. And he used US taxpayers money to do it.
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      02-12-2020, 04:28 PM   #9453
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Another miss:

House Democrats question Secret Service on payments to Trump properties - https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ump-properties

They're charging $615 a night? Can you say emollients?
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      02-12-2020, 04:28 PM   #9454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I'll quote myself:

Here's the issue with that: Absolutely NOTHING changed in terms of corruption between the hold and the day the funds were released. The only thing that did change is that the scheme came to light.

Oh, and this minor detail as well:

Quote:
Long before President Trump ordered a halt to security assistance, the Secretary of Defense—in coordination with Secretary Pompeo—twice certified that Ukraine had made sufficient reforms to decrease corruption and increase accountability, and that the country could ensure accountability for U.S. provided military equipment. Further, after OMB held the assistance to Ukraine in July, the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. Finally, before the July 2019 hold, the Trump administration had approved sending foreign assistance to Ukraine nearly 50 separate times without ever holding it because of concerns that it would be diverted due to corruption.

You do realize the corruption in question happen prior to 2016 it was look backward corruption not current and forward looking or at least what was known at the time, it could be an ongoing activity yet to be fully uncovered.


I am not sure if you do or do not believe there was funny things going on in the Ukraine with US tax $. You either have to believe everything was fine and nothing unusual was going on or think what was going on is just how thing are done any it does not matter. Or there was wrong doing on a number of peoples part include people in the US government.

The problem we all have is the media will not dig into any of this and people in our government do not seem interest in trying to find out what exactly was going on. So we all left to specular.

Last edited by Maestro; 02-12-2020 at 04:57 PM..
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      02-12-2020, 04:32 PM   #9455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I'll quote myself:

Here's the issue with that: Absolutely NOTHING changed in terms of corruption between the hold and the day the funds were released. The only thing that did change is that the scheme came to light.

Oh, and this minor detail as well:

Quote:
Long before President Trump ordered a halt to security assistance, the Secretary of Defense—in coordination with Secretary Pompeo—twice certified that Ukraine had made sufficient reforms to decrease corruption and increase accountability, and that the country could ensure accountability for U.S. provided military equipment. Further, after OMB held the assistance to Ukraine in July, the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. Finally, before the July 2019 hold, the Trump administration had approved sending foreign assistance to Ukraine nearly 50 separate times without ever holding it because of concerns that it would be diverted due to corruption.

You do realize the corruption in question happen prior to 2016 it was look backward corruption not current and forward looking or at least what was known at the time, it could be an ongoing activity yet to be fully uncovered.


I am not sure if you do or do not believe there was funny things going on in the Ukraine with US tax $. You either have to believe everything was fine any nothing unusual was going on or think what was going on is just how thing are done any it does not matter. Or there was wrong doing on a number of people include people in the US government.

The problem we all have is the media will not dig into any of this and people in our government do not seem interest in trying to find out what exactly was going on. So we all left to specular.
Do you understand that this is the only hold on US aid to Ukraine. It had been vetted and cleared through normal channels.As had the other 50 or so aid packages. And why did trump mention the Bidens in particular? Is that the only corruption going on in that country?
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      02-12-2020, 04:40 PM   #9456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Another miss:

House Democrats question Secret Service on payments to Trump properties - https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ump-properties

They're charging $615 a night? Can you say emollients?
Can you say "emoluments"?
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      02-12-2020, 04:42 PM   #9457
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Can you say "emoluments"?
After all of the rampant spelling errors in the last dozen posts, that's the one that raises your flag!?!?!?
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      02-12-2020, 04:44 PM   #9458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
After all of the rampant spelling errors in the last dozen posts, that's the one that raises your flag!?!?!?
No, but I obviously raised yours!! Have a nice day!
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      02-12-2020, 04:45 PM   #9459
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
No, but I obviously raised yours!! Have a nice day!
It was a joke dude, relax...
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      02-12-2020, 04:46 PM   #9460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
It was a joke dude, relax...
I am relaxed just fine - maybe you should take your own advice.
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