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      06-26-2019, 05:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
IF someone picks the right degree from the right school which more and more don't do.
Show your work on this, please.

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Originally Posted by gjm120
Go to a college catalog and look at all the useless (useless as far as producing income to pay back a loan) degrees. Sure it's great to learn about anything, but....

If people think they are going to get paid based on their grades and/or intelligence with no skills or aptitude for doing something the market values, they made a big mistake getting in debt for their degree.
By your definition there have always been, and always will be useless degrees. Or rather, ones that don't pay as much as others to support the loan. I work with a guy who majored in film studies (seemingly useless) and makes $150k+ a year. I also know a guy with a commercial pilot degree from a reputable school (seemingly useful) who pumps jet fuel at a regional airport.

The average degree for the average person leads to better employment odds and earnings potential. Thats the overall point.
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      06-26-2019, 05:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
On average, yes, but when you break it down by field of study there is massive variation. In certain fields it's hugely beneficial, like medicine and legal fields. But there is no one who needs a masters in gender studies to be a barista...
Yes, on average, which is why I used that word. THere have always been less useful degrees and more useful degrees.

Edit: Luckily, there were less than 1500 "gender studies" majors in the most recent year that I could find, 2015. So, not really a concern there.
Right, my post wasn't made to imply you were incorrect. The point was that in the context of our discussion on the explosion of student debt, that college isn't necessarily the problem, but rather the subset of majors that don't qualify anyone for any real jobs leaving them stuck with untenable debt. If the govt got out of student loan subsidy, and the loans were given based on student conscientiousness as measured by gpa and test scores in high school as well as intended college major, this will stop this issue going forward.
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      06-26-2019, 05:38 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
Show your work on this, please.



By your definition there have always been, and always will be useless degrees. Or rather, ones that don't pay as much as others to support the loan. I work with a guy who majored in film studies (seemingly useless) and makes $150k+ a year. I also know a guy with a commercial pilot degree from a reputable school (seemingly useful) who pumps jet fuel at a regional airport.

The average degree for the average person leads to better employment odds and earnings potential. Thats the overall point.
What do you mean by my definition? Nothing is 100%, but, on balance you are more likely to be gainfully employed (in this case meaning able to pay back a loan) with some majors than others.

Your film studies friend is a nice to see exception. I think on average engineers make more than film or fine arts majors. When picking a degree if it's for self gratification but likely to not be valued much in the marketplace, don't borrow gobs of money. And if you're foolish enough to do so, don't expect others to bail you out.
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      06-26-2019, 06:13 PM   #70
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Having spent two months laying in a hospital bed a few years ago, I was bombarded by way too much Judge Judy from a roommate's TV. You would be surprised at the number of cases that come up centered around a young adult signing up for community college class(es) and then going hog-wild buying gifts, cars, and paying living expenses all on their student loan disbursement before dropping out after one semester. It almost seems like someone is instructing them how to do it for the "free" money.....
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      06-26-2019, 06:13 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
Show your work on this, please.
Interesting table. After you've analysed, show your work on this, please

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/...sp?current=yes


Joking aside, conclusion will depend on what time frame you compare, what you regard as "useless" degrees and whether you look at percentage or absolute numbers.

And a little sidebar on the topic, why is nobody concerned about the rise in education costs? It's been discussed somewhere on this forum before. So much concern about the people with school debt they can't pay, but, not much thought about preventing it from continuing.
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      06-26-2019, 06:18 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
Show your work on this, please.



By your definition there have always been, and always will be useless degrees. Or rather, ones that don't pay as much as others to support the loan. I work with a guy who majored in film studies (seemingly useless) and makes $150k+ a year. I also know a guy with a commercial pilot degree from a reputable school (seemingly useful) who pumps jet fuel at a regional airport.

The average degree for the average person leads to better employment odds and earnings potential. Thats the overall point.
you can cherry pick examples of useless degrees panning out all day, but at the end of the day, more times than not, those degrees arent going to lead to high paying jobs.

For example, the average earning of a Film Studies major is $50k with ~30k being the minimum.

Shit, Jaylon Smith got a Film and TV degree from Notre Dame and makes $6.5mill/yr (as a LB for the Dallas Cowboys)
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      06-26-2019, 06:51 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
Show your work on this, please.
Interesting table. After you've analysed, show your work on this, please

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/...sp?current=yes


Joking aside, conclusion will depend on what time frame you compare, what you regard as "useless" degrees and whether you look at percentage or absolute numbers.

And a little sidebar on the topic, why is nobody concerned about the rise in education costs? It's been discussed somewhere on this forum before. So much concern about the people with school debt they can't pay, but, not much thought about preventing it from continuing.
I think the rise in costs is a byproduct of higher college attendance rates. I would assume college attendance rates have massively increased over the last 50 years, in large part due to govt interference. If demand increased without a matching increase in the number of schools/classrooms/seats, you would think that the change in supply/demand led to an increase in prices. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decr...tates_2009.png

Having said that, if the govt stopped subsidizing college loans, the lenders would start using better criteria for issuing loans that would more closely reflect the borrowers ability to pay. This would preclude people who did poorly in HS as well as remove these useless degrees from receiving loans. Some people would opt to pick different majors and others would opt to skip college. The decreased demand for college as a result, in my opinion, would decrease costs. Colleges would need to drop prices to entice students to fill the empty seats to cover the costs of their skyrocketing administration costs.
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      06-26-2019, 07:00 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
I think the rise in costs is a byproduct of higher college attendance rates. I would assume college attendance rates have massively increased over the last 50 years, in large part due to govt interference. If demand increased without a matching increase in the number of schools/classrooms/seats, you would think that the change in supply/demand led to an increase in prices. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decr...tates_2009.png

Having said that, if the govt stopped subsidizing college loans, the lenders would start using better criteria for issuing loans that would more closely reflect the borrowers ability to pay. This would preclude people who did poorly in HS as well as remove these useless degrees from receiving loans. Some people would opt to pick different majors and others would opt to skip college. The decreased demand for college as a result, in my opinion, would decrease costs. Colleges would need to drop prices to entice students to fill the empty seats to cover the costs of their skyrocketing administration costs.
Well if you adjust for inflation then the price has gone down for college by nearly 60%
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      06-26-2019, 07:05 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
I think the rise in costs is a byproduct of higher college attendance rates. I would assume college attendance rates have massively increased over the last 50 years, in large part due to govt interference. If demand increased without a matching increase in the number of schools/classrooms/seats, you would think that the change in supply/demand led to an increase in prices. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decr...tates_2009.png

Having said that, if the govt stopped subsidizing college loans, the lenders would start using better criteria for issuing loans that would more closely reflect the borrowers ability to pay. This would preclude people who did poorly in HS as well as remove these useless degrees from receiving loans. Some people would opt to pick different majors and others would opt to skip college. The decreased demand for college as a result, in my opinion, would decrease costs. Colleges would need to drop prices to entice students to fill the empty seats to cover the costs of their skyrocketing administration costs.
Well if you adjust for inflation then the price has gone down for college by nearly 60%
Over what period? Every stat I've seen has shown college tuition inflation rates at least 1.5 to 2 times the general inflation rate. http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml
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      06-26-2019, 07:10 PM   #76
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Over what period? Every stat I've seen has shown college tuition inflation rates at least 1.5 to 2 times the general inflation rate. http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml
Same period as that chart using an inflation calculator
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      06-26-2019, 07:17 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Over what period? Every stat I've seen has shown college tuition inflation rates at least 1.5 to 2 times the general inflation rate. http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml
Same period as that chart using an inflation calculator
You're gonna have to provide a bit more evidence to substantiate your claim given the link I posted above and the following link

https://trends.collegeboard.org/coll...charges-decade

Both links show tuition increases at well above a normal inflation rate.
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      06-26-2019, 07:36 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
You're gonna have to provide a bit more evidence to substantiate your claim given the link I posted above and the following link

https://trends.collegeboard.org/coll...charges-decade

Both links show tuition increases at well above a normal inflation rate.
here what I used, if you know a better calculator I'm more then open to use it

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
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      06-26-2019, 07:55 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
You're gonna have to provide a bit more evidence to substantiate your claim given the link I posted above and the following link

https://trends.collegeboard.org/coll...charges-decade

Both links show tuition increases at well above a normal inflation rate.
here what I used, if you know a better calculator I'm more then open to use it

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
This calculator is fine, but as far as I can tell it only provides you the dollar inflation for a given period, but doesn't provide you the corresponding college tuition inflation rate.
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      06-26-2019, 08:04 PM   #80
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I want Bernie to allow me to buy a bunch of cars on leveraged credit and then forgive my loans. please? All of us in this forum need it!
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      06-26-2019, 08:07 PM   #81
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This calculator is fine, but as far as I can tell it only provides you the dollar inflation for a given period, but doesn't provide you the corresponding college tuition inflation rate.
Well one link before compare the cost of college in 1975 to 2015
I enter the two extreme and check what the difference base on inflation. If everything is correct then college was 60% more expensive in 1975 compare to now once adjusted.
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      06-26-2019, 08:46 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
This calculator is fine, but as far as I can tell it only provides you the dollar inflation for a given period, but doesn't provide you the corresponding college tuition inflation rate.
Well one link before compare the cost of college in 1975 to 2015
I enter the two extreme and check what the difference base on inflation. If everything is correct then college was 60% more expensive in 1975 compare to now once adjusted.
I've calculate this several times. Over the past 50 years, college has outpaced inflation by about 1.5 times. I'd have to dig up the numbers, but I believe it was about 6% vs 9% per annum.
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      06-26-2019, 08:55 PM   #83
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The problem is so massive that something is going to have to be done whether we like it or not. You have a full generation at least who cannot afford the things that keep a consumer economy such as ours going, they're saddled with massive student loan debt and jobs that don't pay near enough to keep up with inflation. If things are this bad now when the economy is still in fairly decent shape (I guess), just wait until the next down turn to see how bad things get. That's just the bottom line.

I'd like to know if suckers like me who took 15+ years to pay back the loans will be reimbursed? I already know the answer to that, so no doubt I'll get the pleasure of helping to pay back other's student loans, along with helping to fund the retirements of government workers who get to retire in their mid 50s.

Life sure is fair.
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      06-27-2019, 08:50 AM   #84
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Yet the left wants more government
So does the right. They just want it in different areas.
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      06-27-2019, 09:02 AM   #85
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Student loan debt keeps getting bigger just like national debt but everyone keeps talking about how great economy is and how rich we are. Nobody sees we are living on borrowed money??

We've borrowed so much friends m everywhere that now we have to borrow from college kids now. That's so bad

Who do you you crazies want to borrow from next? Maybee the bankers will figure out how to make school lunch cost 10k per month and we have to force elementary school kids to start a loan program so we can keep funding this great economy

If you would just stop compounding of interest then that could solve college debt problem but bankers would ever let it happen because they could only get rich not ultra ultra rich
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      06-27-2019, 09:03 AM   #86
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Student loan debt keeps getting bigger just like national debt but everyone keeps talking about how great economy is and how rich we are. Nobody sees we are living on borrowed money??

We've borrowed so much friends m everywhere that now we have to borrow from college kids now. That's so bad

Who do you you crazies want to borrow from next? Maybee the bankers will figure out how to make school lunch cost 10k per month and we have to force elementary school kids to start a loan program so they can get rich.

If you would just stop compounding of interest then that could solve college debt problem but bankers would ever let it happen because they could only get rich not ultra ultra rich
We been living on borrowed money since the day the federal reserve was created so what is your solution?

Last edited by Delta0311; 06-27-2019 at 09:25 AM..
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      06-27-2019, 09:05 AM   #87
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I've calculate this several times. Over the past 50 years, college has outpaced inflation by about 1.5 times. I'd have to dig up the numbers, but I believe it was about 6% vs 9% per annum.
Well when I enter the cost of college in 1975 and adjust it for inflation in 2015 the 800,000+ was equal to 5 million today. While college today is just below 2 million.

But once again I'm open to the idea that perhaps I did something wrong.
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      06-27-2019, 09:10 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
Student loan debt keeps getting bigger just like national debt but everyone keeps talking about how great economy is and how rich we are. Nobody sees we are living on borrowed money??

We've borrowed so much friends m everywhere that now we have to borrow from college kids now. That's so bad

Who do you you crazies want to borrow from next? Maybee the bankers will figure out how to make school lunch cost 10k per month and we have to force elementary school kids to start a loan program so they can get rich.

If you would just stop compounding of interest then that could solve college debt problem but bankers would ever let it happen because they could only get rich not ultra ultra rich
We been living on borrowed money since the day the federl reserve was created so what is your solution?
I would like to see regulation. Yes regulation I said it!

When you take a mortgage on a house and the rate is 4-5% you end up paying almost the loan amount back in just interest over 30 years. That's crazy! If you want a 2millioj house you might pay almost 4million when all is said and done.

Regulation was put on Wall Street along time ago. Many many regulation and now it's a good place for regular ppl like you and me to make investments. Without regulation like in old days we would all get robbed on wall st because of inside trading and all sorts of tricks. Regulation on these crooks can be good.

These bankers and compounding interest are complete crooks too especially with student loans since students have no choice but to take out loans. So student loan rates are much much higher like 7-12% which compounds. It's a crime!

So asking govt to just cancel debt is crazy talk but you will get crazy talk when you push ppl into a corner like that. If there is regulation where rates must be kept super low or just cancel all compounding then we could have reasonable solution to a reasonable problem.

My nephew is just graduating medical school and has 400k in debt and his salary as Resient cannot even pay the interest on this debt so by the time he finishes residency he will be 500-600 in debt. Why does a doctor need such high interest rates and compounding? Is a doctor considered a high risk loan by a bank? No it's because he has no choice but to take the loan and the bank sees him as an easy victim
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