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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum 2017+ BMW 5 Series (G30) General Discussions BMW 540i xDrive Car and Driver instrumented test (night blue Dakota w/ cove trim)

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      03-31-2017, 11:59 PM   #45
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All things considered I really appreciate what BMW achieved with the G30, except for the idiotic hybrid instrument cluster.
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      04-01-2017, 06:31 AM   #46
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The article surprised me after reading European press coverage and driving both 530i and 540i MSport models (without active suspensions or variable steering). Maybe, like a typical 5-series customer, I paid more attention to the interior design and technology on my drives. The 530i basically felt like my 528i dipped in a vat of teflon, every motion a little smoother and better controlled, especially reduced impact harshness through the suspension.
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      04-01-2017, 07:42 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ArchJR View Post
The article surprised me after reading European press coverage and driving both 530i and 540i MSport models (without active suspensions or variable steering). Maybe, like a typical 5-series customer, I paid more attention to the interior design and technology on my drives. The 530i basically felt like my 528i dipped in a vat of teflon, every motion a little smoother and better controlled, especially reduced impact harshness through the suspension.
After reading most of the reviews and UK motor magazine comments, (including journalists who are long time BMW users), I'm sensing that BMW are making what users want in 2017.

There is not the focus on hard core driving dynamics we'd have been reading in reviews years back, for something like the E39, when it arrived on the scene. There is much more focus on the ambience of the cabin, comfort and isolation from road noise, etc. Steering hardly gets a mention, even the ride is not given the same focus as it was a few years back. Typically viewed as being improved, steering "direct and precise", "ride and handling better than the F10", therefore a positive thumbs up.

I see a change in focus on how cars are viewed over here, driving dynamics are not the highest priority, for a multitude of reasons. Driving is now more of a chore for many, there's so many restrictions on speed, traffic congestion and the urban slog, meaning comfort and isolation are higher up the requirements list, relieving stress while driving. BMW cars are daily drivers, how technology is implemented and flawless infotainment integration, are higher up the priority list for most drivers, than what a car drives like on the limits.

As long as a BMW gives a good driving feel, no real oddities, along with a premium feel (as a package), BMW are giving folks what they want.

Let's be frank here, how many users will be pushing their BMW anywhere the the limits in day to day driving? Many drivers have no idea what the capabilities of their BMW are, won't ever test the chassis to the limit, will back off well before the electronics even intervene. Will never have problems due to lack of steering feel or feedback, even if they do know what it is.

We are in a different era to when I was a young man, over here many young folks are not even interested in cars, like years past.

Last edited by HighlandPete; 04-01-2017 at 07:50 AM..
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      04-01-2017, 11:07 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Tsang View Post
I test drove the a5 and s5 yesterday. There wasn't much feel there either and the s5 was pretty light as well. Just as light as the g30 I drove. Both in comfort and the 540 didn't have m sport package.

Also the s5 has more turbo lag than the 540i.

But Audi isn't known as the ultimate driving machine so they get a pass or something
Pretty much. Every Audi I've driven in my life has been a snooze from behind the wheel and was devoid of any steering feel whatsoever. Even sportier models like the SQ5 just add some heft to the steering but nothing else.

I mean, they're not completely tuned for comfort like a Lexus RX or ES which have finger-tough light steering and feel like an XBOX controller, but they still aren't true driver's cars.
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      04-01-2017, 11:51 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport View Post
it was a pig not so much based on weight but the feel of it compared to the e-class and A6. Those two cars just felt much lighter on it's feet compared to the 5er. wasn't comparing it to the e39.
See where you are coming from, but personally I'm interested in how different generations of BMW models compare. In this case, does the G30 really make for a better car above previous models?
In my opinion the 5 series was never really that sporty and the G30 has improved because it is much more luxurious than previous generations and the G30 compared to the competition is more tech laden and luxurious and leads the pack. Previous generation 5 series led the competition in sport handling but now I would rank it 2nd in this area behind the A6 and tied with the eclass.
I think it is more important to look at it compared to the competition than compare it to older models don't you think?
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      04-01-2017, 02:29 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport View Post
In my opinion the 5 series was never really that sporty and the G30 has improved because it is much more luxurious than previous generations and the G30 compared to the competition is more tech laden and luxurious and leads the pack. Previous generation 5 series led the competition in sport handling but now I would rank it 2nd in this area behind the A6 and tied with the eclass.
I think it is more important to look at it compared to the competition than compare it to older models don't you think?
Over here in the UK the BMW F10 and Jaguar XF have been the two leading the pack. With the G30, the 5-series is being rated above the XF.

Current AutoCar rating puts the A6 in 5th place, behind the Volvo.

1. BMW 5-Series; 2. Jaguar XF; 3. Mercedes E-Class; 4. Volvo S90; 5. Audi A6.

I would be looking at the Jaguar as the direct competition for driving dynamics of the G30. The Jaguar is tuned on UK roads, so the dynamics shine through. Audi is seen as being a bit numb. Perhaps the US and Canadian market see it differently.
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      04-01-2017, 03:56 PM   #51
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BMW's have always differentiated vs the marketplace with a better driving dynamic. That coupled with luxury that more than met the table stakes for whatever class of vehicle /segment of the market they were competing in.

When they start selling their soul to gain market share? That is a very slipper slope very few business' have been able to navigate - in any industry.

I will withhold my judgement on G30 until I get behind the wheel. In the interim I will be grateful for cars like my previous M235 and newer launches like M2.
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      04-01-2017, 05:04 PM   #52
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I'm not sure I should interject here based on the amount of hardware (or lack of) on my uniform... like poking my head into a board meeting... but I am really glad I only recently became able to afford the luxury of obtaining one of these cars I had always heard so much about.
I drove the 540ix M-Sport a couple weeks ago and it was clear pulling out of the parking lot, let alone when I was pinned to the back of the leather-clad cloud called a seat, that I was experiencing something very few are blessed to appreciate. The test drive confirmed that the car could handle and make enjoyable any feasible driving scenario a person living in modern reality could dish out, and do it while pampering the senses in every way.
You may say it is my unqualified understanding about what "feeling the road" is supposed to do for me, or dulled expectations perpetrated by the man (or the chinese), but why the hell would I need a 4-door car to do anything more for me on the commute to work, or even when I find myself alone on a winding road? Aren't there other cars which would be more appropriately suited if I really wanted or needed to test the limits of man vs. pavement?
Hey, flame away, but if my CA had turned to me from the passenger seat and offered me the blue pill or the red pill, I would definitely have taken the blue pill and not cared to know whatever it is the E39 did to you guys or the reviewer in question to believe you should not fully appreciate the thrill of that incredible car.

Cheers
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      04-01-2017, 05:13 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54Me View Post
I'm not sure I should interject here based on the amount of hardware (or lack of) on my uniform... like poking my head into a board meeting... but I am really glad I only recently became able to afford the luxury of obtaining one of these cars I had always heard so much about.
I drove the 540ix M-Sport a couple weeks ago and it was clear pulling out of the parking lot, let alone when I was pinned to the back of the leather-clad cloud called a seat, that I was experiencing something very few are blessed to appreciate. The test drive confirmed that the car could handle and make enjoyable any feasible driving scenario a person living in modern reality could dish out, and do it while pampering the senses in every way.
You may say it is my unqualified understanding about what "feeling the road" is supposed to do for me, or dulled expectations perpetrated by the man (or the chinese), but why the hell would I need a 4-door car to do anything more for me on the commute to work, or even when I find myself alone on a winding road? Aren't there other cars which would be more appropriately suited if I really wanted or needed to test the limits of man vs. pavement?
Hey, flame away, but if my CA had turned to me from the passenger seat and offered me the blue pill or the red pill, I would definitely have taken the blue pill and not cared to know whatever it is the E39 did to you guys or the reviewer in question to believe you should not fully appreciate the thrill of that incredible car.

Cheers
Excellent post and thanks for putting the discussion of driving BMW's back in perspective.

BTW, my F11 is the best BMW I've owned (and I've had an E39), so have great expectations for the G30 when I get to drive one.
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      04-02-2017, 03:07 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZigmundUK View Post
I love how the author blames the Chinese. Like when all else fails 'them chinamen caused this!'
You do realize Porsche and BMW have flat out admitted this is why they make their steering feel super light and low effort? The Asian market doesn't want feedback, they want some bullshit pinky-steerable car with an expensive badge. Sadly manufacturers can't ignore such a large chunk of their market.
Ok so hydraulic to electric steering saved all of 0.1mpg, if that. And it cost dearly in terms of steering feedback. Having an e90 3er and M135i on the driveway, it feels like the 3er has the steering the 1 should have.

Why not engineer steering to region?

Or better still why not let the customer have the option! I can have BMW fit expensive bits of plastic, fancy exhaust or LSD, but I can't have steering feel in a sports car, good thinking BMW
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      04-02-2017, 03:10 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54Me View Post
I'm not sure I should interject here based on the amount of hardware (or lack of) on my uniform... like poking my head into a board meeting... but I am really glad I only recently became able to afford the luxury of obtaining one of these cars I had always heard so much about.
I drove the 540ix M-Sport a couple weeks ago and it was clear pulling out of the parking lot, let alone when I was pinned to the back of the leather-clad cloud called a seat, that I was experiencing something very few are blessed to appreciate. The test drive confirmed that the car could handle and make enjoyable any feasible driving scenario a person living in modern reality could dish out, and do it while pampering the senses in every way.
You may say it is my unqualified understanding about what "feeling the road" is supposed to do for me, or dulled expectations perpetrated by the man (or the chinese), but why the hell would I need a 4-door car to do anything more for me on the commute to work, or even when I find myself alone on a winding road? Aren't there other cars which would be more appropriately suited if I really wanted or needed to test the limits of man vs. pavement?
Hey, flame away, but if my CA had turned to me from the passenger seat and offered me the blue pill or the red pill, I would definitely have taken the blue pill and not cared to know whatever it is the E39 did to you guys or the reviewer in question to believe you should not fully appreciate the thrill of that incredible car.

Cheers
Yes exactly!
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      04-02-2017, 06:55 AM   #56
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The thing is though that even the people who don't care about handling and performance like to know that their cars can do it if so desired. Enthusiasts are the ones that gave BMW its reputation and that reputation is being eroded. The reasons to buy BMW over other brands are disappearing and all that's left is less functionality for a much higher price.

Sooner or later this will be reflected in BMW sales.
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      04-02-2017, 11:15 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
regarding the steering, that's not great news.
I do miss the steering from my E39 530i msport which was nigh on perfect imho.
other reviews state it is better than the f10, will have to see when I get a test drive.
That's not a very high benchmark, unfortunately.
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      04-02-2017, 11:28 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
After reading most of the reviews and UK motor magazine comments, (including journalists who are long time BMW users), I'm sensing that BMW are making what users want in 2017.

There is not the focus on hard core driving dynamics we'd have been reading in reviews years back, for something like the E39, when it arrived on the scene. There is much more focus on the ambience of the cabin, comfort and isolation from road noise, etc. Steering hardly gets a mention, even the ride is not given the same focus as it was a few years back. Typically viewed as being improved, steering "direct and precise", "ride and handling better than the F10", therefore a positive thumbs up.

I see a change in focus on how cars are viewed over here, driving dynamics are not the highest priority, for a multitude of reasons. Driving is now more of a chore for many, there's so many restrictions on speed, traffic congestion and the urban slog, meaning comfort and isolation are higher up the requirements list, relieving stress while driving. BMW cars are daily drivers, how technology is implemented and flawless infotainment integration, are higher up the priority list for most drivers, than what a car drives like on the limits.

As long as a BMW gives a good driving feel, no real oddities, along with a premium feel (as a package), BMW are giving folks what they want.

Let's be frank here, how many users will be pushing their BMW anywhere the the limits in day to day driving? Many drivers have no idea what the capabilities of their BMW are, won't ever test the chassis to the limit, will back off well before the electronics even intervene. Will never have problems due to lack of steering feel or feedback, even if they do know what it is.

We are in a different era to when I was a young man, over here many young folks are not even interested in cars, like years past.
I think this is true. Everyone here is an outlier. 99.9% of BMW drivers do not spend their free time on forums discussing the cars. If we want the feel of old, we are left with two options: (1) drive vintage cars or (2) pay for the M car with M's version of EPS and a stiffer driving experience (I am assuming they are closer in feel with the special EPS, but have no first hand experience).

It is unfortunate but it is the reality. Its also the reason why I spent a bunch of money in the last six months replacing turbos and fixing a variety of oil leaks on my 9 year old e90.
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      04-02-2017, 11:36 AM   #59
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I dunno. I'm not an enthusiast driver but I can feel the better drive in a BMW over Mercedes Audi lexus etc.

Not only that but the lack of overall intuitive functionality in the other brands is so obvious to me. Lexus and Toyota are just horrendous. Mercedes always is lost in its own systems and their features never work as well as Bmw ones.

People keep raving about Audi but their interior has never been that great - it's always been a tad bit nicer than a VW and that's about it. The shapes of audis have also been lacking. A bit of wow at the start but look deeper and there's always something a bit too blah about it. Mercedes were in a rut with their shapes until the w212, but the 213 starts to look woolly again like the older mercs. And what is with their rear view mirrors being way too close to the driver's face?!

So even being a lay driver, I can see the superior ergonomics, drive and aesthetics of the bmw in general. Hehe - maybe I'm the new target market!!

But please oh please stop making crap like the 2 active tourer or the GTs.... please...
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      04-05-2017, 05:30 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ZigmundUK View Post
I love how the author blames the Chinese. Like when all else fails 'them chinamen caused this!'
Hahaha!! Well, it seems like blaming Chinese has always been the trend. I am a Malaysian born Chinese. Tho we are 3-4 gen Chinese, but we will be blamed for political and economical instability. How irony, when most of the ministers are native Malays. A savage lot tho.
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      04-05-2017, 06:24 AM   #61
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After reading most of the reviews and UK motor magazine comments, (including journalists who are long time BMW users), I'm sensing that BMW are making what users want in 2017.
You are spot on with your assertions, and I don't think what users want varies much from Europe to the U.S. other than fuel efficiency. But then the magazines here do not seem to run comparison tests with the models people actually buy and lease, like a moderately optioned 530i vs. E300 vs. CTS 2.0t vs. S90 T5. It is in that realm where the lack of intoxicating power makes interior design and technology bigger factors.
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      05-08-2017, 08:50 AM   #62
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Chiming in, admittedly as a bit of a layman, but I've owned an E34 ('95 525i), E39 ('01 530i Sport-Luxury pack), E90 ('09 335i MSport), currently a F10 ('14 535xi MSport), and just ordered a G30 540xi M-Sport, so felt the need to share.

The F10 is/was my first automatic, AWD BMW and I was nervous as hell to move to what I had always considered the "dark side". But after my E90, which had the M Perf Pack, exhaust, and RWD/MSport susp. that eventually got downright abusive on crap New England roads, I wanted more comfort, esp for long trips and a bit less "seasonal maintenance" (i.e. winter tire swapping, RWD commuting in snow/sleet, etc.)... maybe more a factor of age than anything else, lol.

So after driving the '14 F30 and F10 back to back, I fell in love with the F10's exterior/interior styling, and luxury bits that the my F30 didn't have (multi-contour seats, power trunk, larger sunroof, iDrive w/larger screen, etc.), and highway ride quality/quietness... which I realize mean little to some, but definitely factor into the overall experience for me.

After nearly 3 years and 39K miles, does my F10 drive like a bit of a barge, yes. Does it crash over big potholes and bumps, yes. Do I wish BMW offered it with an AWD AND an MSport suspension, or at least adaptive dampers (not the $3500 Dynamic Handling pack), hell yes. But I still appreciate how well is does almost everything on a day to day basis... I just wish it handled a bit better and had a bit more grunt (and a meaner exhaust would be great too - our other car is a Macan S).

I considered downsizing to get a more "sport" back, and drove the XE, C43, Guilia, and S4, all beautiful cars in their own right, but none of them checked all of MY boxes (altho the C43 came close). Oddly, I never really considered the 5s competitors, or the 340xi/440xi GC, even though I think they're very attractive, the interior and lack of luxury bits are a bit of a let down to me (which I realize is bc I'm coming out of a 5).

So why all this rambling? I think I represent a fair amount of 5 series buyers who appreciate a really well engineered car that performs well, but also offers the a fair amount of luxury for day to day schlepping. With the G30's touch more power, beautiful interior (IMO), and the fact that I can now hit the sport button and actually experience a change (i.e. adaptive dampers), as well as BMWs aggressive lease offers, I was sold (literally). Just think it's important to keep in mind what I'd bet the majority of 5 buyers prioritize, and after test driving a few times, the new 5 def seemed to check all the boxes, at least for me. We should all be so lucky to have these problems, right? Cheers!
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