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      02-18-2020, 11:50 AM   #3279
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It's going to be really interesting how Elon is going to shake up the solar industry. His acquisition of Solar City and then the new pricing model he has put in that challenges the established leasing models of companies such as Vivint is going to be interesting.
Agreed, especially for people in sun states who want off the grid and free fuel!

that said, I have a feeling we now know why Musk reversed course on raising capital two weeks after he said it didn't make sense:



TSLA might get destroyed in 2 months.
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      02-18-2020, 02:55 PM   #3280
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So, is TSLA still headed for bankruptcy?
At $870, did some Middle East prince get totally screwed by not accepting the (in)famous $420 offer?
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      02-20-2020, 01:09 PM   #3281
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Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge as they simply listen too much what the greenies are telling them and have no Motoring lobby on their speaking platforms like here in Westminster. Stats they quickly forget is that to build e/car doubles carbon footprint to a conventional fuelled car and the content for the batteries has been known to involve child labour.Worn out batteries themselves would cause a large problem with questionable re use in their weak state with disposal unanswered and the charging points for many users would be a pipe dream.
Just my two pence.
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      02-20-2020, 02:05 PM   #3282
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge as they simply listen too much what the greenies are telling them and have no Motoring lobby on their speaking platforms like here in Westminster. Stats they quickly forget is that to build e/car doubles carbon footprint to a conventional fuelled car and the content for the batteries has been known to involve child labour.Worn out batteries themselves would cause a large problem with questionable re use in their weak state with disposal unanswered and the charging points for many users would be a pipe dream.
Just my two pence.
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      02-20-2020, 02:11 PM   #3283
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How Dare You!
Sorry Greta
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      02-21-2020, 02:59 PM   #3284
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock.

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker’s push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm’s analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It’s nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There’s a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world.”

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm’s analysts cited Tesla’s strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 02-21-2020 at 11:12 PM..
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      02-21-2020, 06:38 PM   #3285
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I sure don't claim have the massive business experience and humongous analytical abilities some here claim they possess (you know, they implicitly claim they're smarter than the entire global financial and auto industries combined; that's pretty smart!) ...

... however I am curious how the China COVD-19 outbreak is going to affect Tesla, the BEV markets, and the auto markets in general given:

(1.) TSLA's latest 10-K may indicate primary revenue sources shifting from the US to global (meaning more exposure to COVD-19):


(2.) Auto deliveries in China are forecast to fall 70% this month and 40% for the first two months of the year after the industry came to a near-standstill (-96% Y/Y) for the first week of February amid the coronavirus outbreak.

(3.) The Tesla Shanghai plant numbers aren't making sense. In TSLA's 2019 Q4 / FY letter they said:

But Feb 12th a widely recognized Tesla pundit said:
"Now I can see Tesla producing around 9,000 Model 3 vehicles at the factory this quarter and ramping up to 15,000 units next quarter."
Assuming this guy is right, or even close to it, his numbers are way WAY low given Tesla's numbers from its letter ... even taking into account the slow ramp in Shanghai.


Net-Net:
If I had bought TSLA and wasn't planning on holding it for at least a few years, I would be selling right about now, but, like I said, I ain't no expert.
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 02-21-2020 at 11:13 PM..
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      02-24-2020, 10:48 AM   #3286
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
.


Net-Net:
If I had bought TSLA and wasn't planning on holding it for at least a few years, I would be selling right about now, but, like I said, I ain't no expert.
Would have been a good time to sell. Wonder how far the free fall will go?
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      02-24-2020, 10:56 AM   #3287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock."

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker's push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm's analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It's nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There's a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world."

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm's analysts cited Tesla's strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
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      02-24-2020, 05:00 PM   #3288
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absolutely. i see some fuckers on icy snowy mornings cycling along holding up a long line of traffic behind them to save the world by cutting down on their carbon footprint on their £1500 bikes. Politicians city councils law etc are on their side while neglecting the motorists who pay road tax that builds roads on which they ride etc. Only consolation is they are out in a bike ahead of me in freezing weather like a prehistoric beast and im warm in a car behind them
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      02-24-2020, 05:37 PM   #3289
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock."

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker's push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm's analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It's nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There's a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world."

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm's analysts cited Tesla's strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
Why does it matter? Adapt or die.
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      02-24-2020, 05:47 PM   #3290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock."

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker's push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm's analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It's nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There's a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world."

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm's analysts cited Tesla's strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
Why does it matter? Adapt or die.
free market where customers choose as opposed to
communism where state decides whats best for you
thats why no? ev movement smacks of the same
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      02-24-2020, 06:20 PM   #3291
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock."

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker's push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm's analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It's nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There's a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world."

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm's analysts cited Tesla's strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
Why does it matter? Adapt or die.
free market where customers choose as opposed to
communism where state decides whats best for you
thats why no? ev movement smacks of the same
Nah. People have a fantastical definition of free market. It's way too easy to label something communism and dismiss it without thought and consideration. What you think a free market is has somehow been associated as the only ideal and perfect market. It's not that and it's not communism. It's somewhere in between.

Besides, you only think you live in a totally free market. Otherwise I could go load up on coke and hookers tonight cook up some Panda meat and launch RPG's in my back yard.
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      02-24-2020, 06:44 PM   #3292
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock."

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker's push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm's analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It's nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There's a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world."

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm's analysts cited Tesla's strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
Why does it matter? Adapt or die.
free market where customers choose as opposed to
communism where state decides whats best for you
thats why no? ev movement smacks of the same
Nah. People have a fantastical definition of free market. It's way too easy to label something communism and dismiss it without thought and consideration. What you think a free market is has somehow been associated as the only ideal and perfect market. It's not that and it's not communism. It's somewhere in between.

Besides, you only think you live in a totally free market. Otherwise I could go load up on coke and hookers tonight cook up some Panda meat and launch RPG's in my back yard.

your second paragraph sounds great especially since ive never done that
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      02-24-2020, 09:52 PM   #3293
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Any government that are pushing these cars onto public have little knowledge
So your point is, all global equities and bond markets - not to mention all executives at every major auto manufacturer, people who put their money and careers at stake in their opinion on this topic - are all wrong and all missing the big picture clarity you see?

Suggestion: Maybe this once - just for a minute - ask your ego to step back and ask your frontal lobe: does that sound right? That the entire investing and auto industry is wrong and you're right??

Before you answer, have your frontal lobe look at the GLOBAL equities market and ask yourself: do they know something I don't? Next, have your frontal lobe look at the 10 year plans of every major auto manufacturer - to start pick, say, VW. See what the VW CEO says about where he's taking THE ENTIRE COMPANY in the next 10 years. Does he maybe know something you don't?

Then ask yourself: is it reasonable that you know more than all financial markets, and all legacy auto leadership combined?

----------
To help you, FYI: Feb 18th, 2020:

* Morgan Stanley raised its base case price target on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to $500 from $360 and the bull case target to $1,200 from $650.

* Bernstein hikes its price target to $730 from $325, while keeping a Market Perform rating in place. "Investors feel much better about Tesla's ability to be sustainably profitable; Model 3 demand remains healthy; GMs and op ex are both poised to materially improve; competition is sputtering ... [Tesla has] significant addition optionality through the truck, self-driving, battery technology and solar markets ... We are skeptical that upside possibilities are likely to be expunged any time soon — suggesting no imminent negative catalysts for the stock."

* Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to a street high, saying the electric automaker's push into other areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher. The firm's analyst Alexander Potter raised his price target to $928 per share, up from $729.

* Prati Management: "Ferrari Unprepared for Technology Transition: Companies such as Tesla are leading the charge to electric cars, reduced carbon emissions, and autonomous vehicles making internal combustion engines (ICE) ancient in comparison."

* Baron Capital: Ron Baron (billionaire): Tesla can hit "at least $1 trillion in revenue in 10 years and continue to grow from there ... It's nowhere near ended at that point and time ... There's a lot of growth opportunities from that point going forward ... [Tesla's stock run is] just the beginning ... [and Tesla] could be one of the largest companies in the world."

* Argus Research: raised its price target to $808 from $556. The firm's analysts cited Tesla's strong fourth-quarter financials: "Despite past production delays, parts shortages, labor cost overruns and other difficulties, we expect Tesla to benefit from its dominant position in the electric vehicle industry and to improve performance in 2020 and beyond."

* Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess Jan 24th, 2020: "It's an open race [against Tesla] ... We are quite optimistic that we still can keep the pace with Tesla and also at some stage probably overtake ... The company which adopts fastest and is most innovative but also which has enough scale in the new world will win the race."

And, of course, Tesla is back on in Berlin with their factory and possibly starting a battery factory in Texas ... soooo .... if those financiers and auto execs all have "little knowledge" - and you have the right answers - you're going to be RICH! RICH I TELL YOU!
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
Why does it matter? Adapt or die.
free market where customers choose as opposed to
communism where state decides whats best for you
thats why no? ev movement smacks of the same
Nah. People have a fantastical definition of free market. It's way too easy to label something communism and dismiss it without thought and consideration. What you think a free market is has somehow been associated as the only ideal and perfect market. It's not that and it's not communism. It's somewhere in between.

Besides, you only think you live in a totally free market. Otherwise I could go load up on coke and hookers tonight cook up some Panda meat and launch RPG's in my back yard.
You could if you lived in the middle of nowhere.


Sounds like a hell of a party

Can I come
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      02-25-2020, 12:14 AM   #3294
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Would have been a good time to sell. Wonder how far the free fall will go?
Pretty far I'd think - $200s or even high $100s ... Tesla is a "story stock", a way to trade on new battery tech and de-carbonization of the electric grid. If global supply chains start failing due to China, there goes Tesla's growth story, at least temporarily.

On the flip side here's why Tesla should terrify the legacy auto industry - and one of many reasons their stock is so high:

(1.) These fuckers built an auto mfr plant *from scratch*, *with their tech*, and now they're duplicating it twice. Maybe 3 times. I leave that point there, but count how many times that's been done. It's badassery level 10,000,000.

(2.) These fuckers engineered new automobiles on entirely new technology. I'll leave that one alone too, but again, count how many times it's been done.

(3.) These fuckers engineered a self-sustaining fuel source that can disconnect people from all energy infrastructure, making them completely self-sufficient for power and mobility.

And here's the thing: when you've built your own factories, on your own tech, and been through "production hell" and "logistics hell" ... AND SURVIVED IT, you're one big bad muthafucka of an auto company.

But even bad muthafuckas gotta eat, so if COVD-19 continues accelerating, it'll stave them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Would you agree that these decisions are largely being driven by government policy and climate change scare tactics rather than market demand?

After all when China and EU effectively ban ICE in passenger cars how else would automakers react?
Widen your aperture. A great analytical tool to use is to forget your biases as a potential answer - and then ask why. (fyi 99% of the time my bias had the wrong answer) Because if all you picture is a hammer every screw is a nail. and you keep doing it and it becomes a habit and pretty soon every complex problem has a simple solution (that's also wrong). Critical thinking and all that.

Anyway, try it here.

Let's forget about climate change and ask why would governments want new electrical infrastructure? I bet you could think of 50 really good reasons.

Then consider what we know: a BEV in its technological infancy can DESTROY an equivalent ICE at its technological zenith. (that one will be fun, huh?? it's true)

Now ask yourself again, why would governments want BEVs and new electric infrastructure technology? I bet you'll come up with more reasons. repeat.

As a quick example, here's a picture I took in Silicon Valley during the Sept 2018 fires burning 3 hours away in Napa Valley (like 100+ miles away) - that's the noon sun and Santa Cruz mountains you can't see:



This is not good for business at all.

Here's what Silicon Valley normally looks like (that's actually the moon rising into the sunset)



This is really great for business - People like it here.

Here's a picture of Shanghai pretty much most days:



Are the Chinese known for their measured care of the environment and stern green policies? yet they're driving BEV policy. huh.
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      02-25-2020, 12:35 AM   #3295
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Nah. People have a fantastical definition of free market.
So, so this. We don't live in some laissez-faire system, we regulate the SHIT out of markets and that DOESN'T include fiscal, monetary, or trade policy. And there's the legal system (e.g., the freedom or lack thereof to sue), etc etc.

You know what I'm for?

American engineering. American auto industry. American Exports. American GDP.

WTF with these "free market" patriots hating on an American engineering company literally invading two continents simultaneously??!?

I'm telling you, people have lost their fucking minds with this cultural shit.

Do you know why Henry Ford built Ford? Who gives a fuck. geezus.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

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      02-25-2020, 02:37 AM   #3296
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      02-25-2020, 05:40 AM   #3297
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https://www.ccn.com/tesla-is-slowly-...nto-recession/

Fake news? CNN? Sorry?
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      02-25-2020, 06:32 AM   #3298
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selective reporting
cnn article states
"When Tesla launched the Model 3 in Europe last year, it instantly outsold rival sedans at BMW and Mercedes"

click on the link that leads us to automotive news europe and the real fact it is "The Tesla Model 3 full-electric car was Europe's best-selling premium midsize sedan in its first full month of sales" ie February
Bah!
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      02-25-2020, 08:29 AM   #3299
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Anyone else think EVs will end up being a billion dollar fad? What's Tesla's customer retention rate?

The cost of these things is too high and they are always going to be limited to commuting as you're going to need a petrol/diesel to go on a road trip.

Once the California types have shown off a Tesla on Instagram do they look for the next cool thing or do they end up buying a new Tesla?

All these Long promised EVs are all failing to compete with Tesla for price or performance so now you have multi billion dollar investments from VAG/BMW/GM and Tesla all competing for less than 10% of the market that hasn't seemed to grow from more than a niche of tech / green enthusiasts.
When government tax credits in Europe and the US end who's going to buy them?

Hybrids that can do a 30 mile range on EVs and still have an engine for long range seem far more practical, and sales figures agree.

My thoughts are we are ten years away from 'good' electrics. This generation is just not practical enough. I'd consider an i3 for $20k but not $50k.

Worse is BMW seems to have a record of not fixing hybrid and electric power trains and batteries but instead just replacing the whole thing. Meaning your 'cheap' EV is going to be extremely expensive out of warranty. Forums are littered with $7-10k battery and motor replacements.
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      02-25-2020, 08:29 AM   #3300
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CCN, not CNN.
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