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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum 2017+ BMW 5 Series (G30) General Discussions Absolute MORONS at BMWFS....do I have any recourse for lease mileage overage?

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      01-09-2020, 01:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
That might be it and every person situation is different. Leasing is unfortunately the most expensive way to finance a car.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...hing/index.htm

https://www.barrons.com/articles/why...ase-1488585027
I am sorry but you just do not understand how leasing works. It is definitely not something for you as you appear to keep your cars forever. Most people who lease (including myself) are bored to death after 3 years and can't wait for my next "custom order" car.

Lets walk into a dealer buy 2 identical 5 series... You buy yours and I lease mine and have a discussion after 3 years / 36 miles how much equity you built on your car and total cost of ownership ----- You will lose.

You are going to put a down payment, I am going to invest mine, you are going to pay a sales tax for the entire amount of the car, I am going to pay taxes for the period I own the car. (I live in a 10% sales tax state)

BMWFS up until recently subsidized my lease payments and only offered you low % rate if you timed your purchase correctly.

You are hosed if the car gets into an accident during those 3 years, I will simply turn the keys in.

If the car has on going problems or a lemon, I will have more flexibility with my lease vs the car you own.

If you are looking at leasing as a way to finance a car, you got this wrong. It is nothing but renting a really nice car.

People who bash leasing either have never leased a car, or buy a new car every 10 years or are not well educated about the details.

There is a reason why 75% of the BMW's were leased.

The sticker on my F10 was $72K and Bmw Seattle sold it as a CPO car for $34K when it had 32K miles. Most likely they would of offered you $28 to $30K in trade...... Trust me, the car did not cost me $42K (plus 10% tax) over the lease period, not even close.

IMO, one of the dumbest financial decisions you can make is to walk into a dealership and buy a brand new luxury car.

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      01-09-2020, 01:34 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
That might be it and every person situation is different. Leasing is unfortunately the most expensive way to finance a car.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...hing/index.htm

https://www.barrons.com/articles/why...ase-1488585027
I am sorry but you just do not understand how leasing works. It is definitely not something for you as you appear to keep your cars forever. Most people who lease (including myself) are bored to death after 3 years.

Lets walk into a dealer buy 2 identical 5 series... You buy yours and I lease mine and have a discussion after 3 years / 36 miles how much equity you built on your car and total cost of ownership ----- You will lose.

You are going to put a down payment, I am going to invest mine, you are going to pay a sales tax for the entire amount of the car, I am going to pay taxes for the period I own the car. (I live in a 10% sales tax state)

BMWFS up until recently subsidized my lease payments and only offered you low % rate if you timed your purchase correctly.

You are hosed if the car gets into an accident during those 3 years, I will simply turn the keys in.

If the car has on going problems or a lemon, I will have more flexibility with my lease vs the car you own.

If you are looking at leasing as a way to finance a car, you got this wrong. It is nothing but renting a really nice car.

People who bash leasing either have never leased a car, or buy a new car every 10 years or are not well educated about the details.

There is a reason why 75% of the BMW's were leased.

The sticker on my F10 was $72K and Bmw Seattle sold it as a CPO car for $34K when it had 32K miles. Most likely they would of offered you $28 to $30K in trade...... Trust me, the car did not cost me $42K (plus 10% tax) over the lease period, not even close.

IMO, one of the dumbest financial decisions you can make is to walk into a dealership and buy a brand new luxury car.

Peace
I purchase CPO with the maximum coverage afforded by BMW warranties which is currently 7 years/125K miles. Rinse and repeat every 7-9 years. Enjoy driving what it is still a new car with substantial savings. Don't need to have the latest and greatest toys.

Leasing is expensive no matter how much you spin it.
People have to admit that they have an addiction to new cars, have to have the latest and greatest and are willing to sacrifice wealth building to drive around in expensive vehicles commanding payments in the $600-$700+ per month.

Leasing only makes sense if you are a business owner where you can deduct miles and use of the vehicle as a business expense. For the rest of us, is a questionable financial choice at best.

If dealers and manufacturers love leasing is for a good reason and not necessarily that works on anyone's favor.
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      01-09-2020, 02:27 PM   #69
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CPO vs buying new is apples to oranges comparison. (CPO is a great way to go btw, great deals out there)

This is nothing but a financial decision and folks should get into what they can afford. Some don't mind the $700 a month payment at all.

Life is too short for to drive the same car for 10 years as an enthusiast. (unless you have bunch of other toys)
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      01-09-2020, 04:16 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
I am sorry but you just do not understand how leasing works. It is definitely not something for you as you appear to keep your cars forever. Most people who lease (including myself) are bored to death after 3 years and can't wait for my next "custom order" car.

Lets walk into a dealer buy 2 identical 5 series... You buy yours and I lease mine and have a discussion after 3 years / 36 miles how much equity you built on your car and total cost of ownership ----- You will lose.

You are going to put a down payment, I am going to invest mine, you are going to pay a sales tax for the entire amount of the car, I am going to pay taxes for the period I own the car. (I live in a 10% sales tax state)

BMWFS up until recently subsidized my lease payments and only offered you low % rate if you timed your purchase correctly.

You are hosed if the car gets into an accident during those 3 years, I will simply turn the keys in.

If the car has on going problems or a lemon, I will have more flexibility with my lease vs the car you own.

If you are looking at leasing as a way to finance a car, you got this wrong. It is nothing but renting a really nice car.

People who bash leasing either have never leased a car, or buy a new car every 10 years or are not well educated about the details.

There is a reason why 75% of the BMW's were leased.

The sticker on my F10 was $72K and Bmw Seattle sold it as a CPO car for $34K when it had 32K miles. Most likely they would of offered you $28 to $30K in trade...... Trust me, the car did not cost me $42K (plus 10% tax) over the lease period, not even close.

IMO, one of the dumbest financial decisions you can make is to walk into a dealership and buy a brand new luxury car.

Peace
There are no right or wrong ways to "own" a car as ideally everyone is making the best decision for their individual circumstances and goals. That's the ideal world where people aren't punching above their weight and trying to stretch themselves into a "nicer" car. Leasing allows that stretching, but can lock the buyer into a treadmill once they are on it that's hard to get off (for instance, having over mileage damages buried into their next lease and its next lease making hoping off the treadmill brutal).


There aren't any free lunches to be had in this. Leasing you're paying depreciation plus a cost to float the money in the interim. All of the "costs" you're seeing for dealing with the "fallout" of a problem (like the car getting hit and having a depreciation hit) are covered in these costs. BMW Bank (owner of BMW Financial Services USA) isn't losing money here.

A savvy buyer will negotiate a deep discount off MSRP on the purchase and negotiate a fair valuation on the trade. Of course, for some negotiating and cross shopping adds a level of stress that is worth paying to alleviate. Leasing helps to make the whole process turn-key, but like anything turn-key you pay a bit for that premium.

Of course, for the savvy leaser they would still be cross shopping and negotiating because if they are under-mileage or the car is in great condition they may be able to trade the car into another dealer or company and profit.

I stick away from leasing because it makes no sense for me. I buy my cars and want to enjoy them as much as I want. My last '14 C300 I purchased and drove over 90K miles in 5 years. Which is a lot of mileage considering I work from home (and my wife hates driving so she doesn't drive the car unless it is an emergency) and don't do crap like Uber or whatever. All of my driving is for fun. Last thing I want to do is be going "well I can only drive 400 miles this week". Hell since I picked up my 530e in October I'm already closing in on 4K miles (3974 to be exact)!

But what works for me may not work for you. No right or wrong answers. Cars are money pits no matter how you slice the onion. How much you'll be crying will vary. Just know your limit and stay within it.
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      01-09-2020, 05:11 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Most people who lease (including myself) are bored to death after 3 years and can't wait for my next "custom order" car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Life is too short for to drive the same car for 10 years as an enthusiast. (unless you have bunch of other toys)
So true! No matter what I owned, no matter how much I thought that it was THE car, I wanted out within 24 months.

For me the only benefit in buying is modding, but then I end up losing even more money I spent on mods. So leasing actually costs me less, because it prevents me from spending thousands of dollars on mods. Now I try to lease cars in the upper trim so I don't have to mod them, and save a bunch of money in the process. If you really think abut it, you can easily lose thousands of dollars on switching out rims alone...

My problems now is that I have an amazing M550i on order, but I am scared that I just may fall into an M5 while waiting for it, because there are some amazing lease deals available on '19 M5s.

Last edited by bMm5w; 01-09-2020 at 05:28 PM..
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      01-09-2020, 08:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyVegasMB View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Most people who lease (including myself) are bored to death after 3 years and can't wait for my next "custom order" car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Life is too short for to drive the same car for 10 years as an enthusiast. (unless you have bunch of other toys)
So true! No matter what I owned, no matter how much I thought that it was THE car, I wanted out within 24 months.

For me the only benefit in buying is modding, but then I end up losing even more money I spent on mods. So leasing actually costs me less, because it prevents me from spending thousands of dollars on mods. Now I try to lease cars in the upper trim so I don't have to mod them, and save a bunch of money in the process. If you really think abut it, you can easily lose thousands of dollars on switching out rims alone...

My problems now is that I have an amazing M550i on order, but I am scared that I just may fall into an M5 while waiting for it, because there are some amazing lease deals available on '19 M5s.
My buddy just got a '19 M5, msrp $105k, $3k total cash down, $1,200 per month including 10% California tax. 12k miles per year. I hate it because the deal on my M8 isn't even close to that 🤣😂. It's only money. I tell myself I can make more. Need to feed the addiction
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      01-10-2020, 10:26 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Cars are money pits no matter how you slice the onion.
True this.

We can all argue and type until we're blue in the face. It really boils down to two things, in my mind:

a) You must be educated and understand the finances of leasing, buying and paying cash. As others have already said, how you do it is a personal decision based on your financial situation.
2) Being able to shop and negotiate for a good deal. Not a screaming great deal, as they are far and few between, but a good deal that you can live with.

I'm reminded of this guy...

I bought a car from him once, and then years later I bought a TeeVee from him when he was working at Circuit City. I asked him, "how do you feel about pushing those extended warranties on people?" since back then, that's where CC made all of their profits.

His answer: "they're always going to get you, someway."
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      01-10-2020, 02:28 PM   #74
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I've heard arguments both ways endlessly, and agree that everyone has to do what is right for them. Leasing provides a way to drive great new cars all the time with lower monthly cost.....as long as you don't drive a lot. If you have the means, you can have those same new cars and drive as many miles as you want. Insurance protects both ways. Maintenance is a money pit. No car is an investment, it's all pay to play. But the bottom line is, dealers wouldn't push leases so hard if it was not a very good deal for them. I can't remember the last time I kept a car for more than three years (so don't try that characterization on me), but I will never lease a car, so I'll never have the problems the OP is stuck with. YMMV.
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      01-10-2020, 03:37 PM   #75
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The excess mileage fee is a good deal. You can drive 10,000 miles extra each year and you only pay $3,000? I mean if your lease is $1,500 per month then you are paying $18,000 per year for 15,000 miles. It only costs another $3k for 10,000 more! I usually go over and rarely have to pay the full price for overage because I'm getting a new lease, but even if did it's a good deal for the excess mileage. The bigger issue for me is driving a leased car out of warranty, that's a non starter for me.
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      01-10-2020, 04:41 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjr24 View Post
So my M550i lease matures March 14.....24 months, 10k miles per year.

I am 24,000 miles over right now. I just bought a M5 so I likely won't put many more miles on it. That being said, I am trying to buy these 24,000 miles before January 1 to be able to write them off on this year's taxes.

Well, first off, they have the M550 classified incorrectly. They have it as a real M car, which means 0.30 per mile at lease end....and 0.27 per mile is the discounted rate they offer if you buy miles at anytime before the end of the lease. They have admitted this is an error. The M550i is still considered a standard 5 series....meaning 0.25 per mile at the end of the lease and miles can be bought before for 0.23 per mile.

They are telling me it's a site issue, however, and they have no workaround for it. In other words, they are insisting I wait until the day before my lease matures in order to buy miles because of this fact (that they have it wrongly classified and have no way right now to charge the correct 0.23 per mile). I told them that doesn't work for me unless they would like to pay the extra $2k in taxes I will have to pay this year because I won't be able to write this off that way. Regardless, BMWFS clearly says you can buy these extra miles ANYTIME before the lease end.

I insisted I want to pay now and I would do a charge dispute for the extra amount if need be. They said if I did pay now, I will be charged the full amount and it will be considered final (in other words, they will make no adjustments). I mean, are you f*cking kidding me? Not sure what to do here....

I feel they are screwing over M550 owners and likely try to charge the higher amount and most don't realize this should be under 0.25 per mile and not 0.30.
mjr24 For what it's worth, I have a current M550 lease (originated 1/13/2018) and it has $0.25/mile additional for any overage. Same as my wife's current 2018 M240. Not help for you but just an FYI.
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