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      03-07-2020, 07:15 PM   #1
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Off Topic: Range Rover Questions

My wife has settled on a long wheel base (LWB) Range Rover for our next family car. I know quite a few of you own or have owned various luxury cars. And I was hoping you could point me in the direction of a good guide for what to expect when ordering. Not to mention pricing. My googling couldn't dig anything up...the Range Rover forums are much less informative and active than here.

Any info is appreciated.
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      03-08-2020, 04:58 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by cartaozinho View Post
My wife has settled on a long wheel base (LWB) Range Rover for our next family car. I know quite a few of you own or have owned various luxury cars. And I was hoping you could point me in the direction of a good guide for what to expect when ordering. Not to mention pricing. My googling couldn't dig anything up...the Range Rover forums are much less informative and active than here.

Any info is appreciated.
Not sure about ordering but I do strongly suggest you lease it if you can. I came from an F Type. My only advise for anyone who wants to get an RR is to lease only. There r so many problems with JLR I can't even list them properly. My friend from Miami had 9 exhaust changes and 1 brand new engine in just 1 yr of owning the F Type S. If he leased it he could just return to the dealership, but now he has to sell it at an ultra low price because of all those replacements. And I know so many people with a broken engine RR Sport SVR. Personally I owned the F Type for 1 year, in one year my bearing broke, ratting noise from the cabin that JLR can't find, and a new gas tank before I sold it to someone else. And now the new owner is telling me that he has the same rattling problem too and JLR still can't figure out what it is. I love JLR cars and I think they are beautiful cars but their reliability is a huge turn off.
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      03-08-2020, 07:25 PM   #3
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I'll second the recommendation to lease. Or buy with the understanding that you'll need to get on a first name basis with the mechanic.

I have some experience with them and have owned Land Rovers in the past. They used to be great for off-road but these days it's more about off-road heritage and less about off-road capability despite the marketing. Although, compared with most SUV's these days, the balance of Land Rovers probably do pretty well if you option it correctly with a few exceptions.

As for buying and based on my personal experience shopping for one recently is that dealers don't mark them down too much so don't expect rock bottom prices. Most dealers are also reluctant to order one for you and push hard to sell existing inventory or will try and "find" one for you in another dealers inventory. The best deal I was able to get was to go through their corporate fleet program if you're employer participates in the program. We were looking at possibly getting a RRS and the corporate fleet program gave us a discount that was more than twice the best deal we got from a dealer. The recent experience with dealers in the Pacific Northwest was similar to our experience when we purchased our last Land Rover in the mid-Atlantic area (Washington D.C. metro/VA/MD). As a side note, we ended up with another X5 and couldn't be happier.

Last edited by Pictor; 03-08-2020 at 07:27 PM.. Reason: typo
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      03-08-2020, 08:00 PM   #4
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My buddy from work has both a Jaguar xjl and Range Rover Sport. Both right now are out of warranty and both need transmission replacements at $7500 a crack. Jag has broken supercharger at 4500 and other issues. The Range Rover has spent more time getting repaired then ever on the road. I told him before he ever bought either one to lease. He didn't and will take huge loss the get rid of them. They are definitely not known for reliability. They may look nice but I would never own one.
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      03-09-2020, 12:52 PM   #5
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Thanks to everybody who replied. I really appreciate it.

We definitely were planning to lease. Not only the potential for maintenance issues highlighted above but, also the current RR architecture should roll over by the 2022 model year. The current generation dates to 2013! Rumor has it that JLR will be using a BMW V8...

The main attractor for the LWB RR is space -- I'm 6'5", our five year old is already over 50 inches, and mom is pushing 6 foot. So legroom is a precious commodity. The LWB RR is the only ride out there with adequate legroom for everyone. The new GLS has good space in the second row. But still not LWB-esque space.

BMW, if you're listening, a two row version of the X7 would be a no brainer in our household. Maybe that's what the X8 will be...

In terms of pricing, JLR dealers all seem stuck to sticker. My attitude: If a dealer is flexible on price, I'm flexible on specs. If there's no flexibility on price, I have no flexibility on specs. At this price point you should be getting exactly what you want.

Another oddity with our local JLR dealer: For an order they want a $3K deposit that is refundable only when the car sells or is called away by another dealer. Weird.
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      03-09-2020, 09:22 PM   #6
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RR can go both ways. You may get a good one or a dog. If your hard on cars forget it.

I had a Jag Xjs. Every time I drove it hard I broke something. Just a huge pile of awesome looking poo
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      03-10-2020, 11:51 AM   #7
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JLR vehicles sure are beautiful, but I just can't trust them. I advise that even if you do lease, you ask about their available loaners and what vehicles they have because even during leases, problems can still arise, and the worse thing would be having to get stuck in one of those Disco Sport SUV's (or just any car that isn't your own) for anywhere from a short to long period of time as a loaner. This was years ago, but had a friend with a leased RR Sport, had engine trouble, got stuck in a LR2/Freelander (one of the worst LR vehicles in history) for one month, ruined his entire ownership experience.
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      03-14-2020, 11:18 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
JLR vehicles sure are beautiful, but I just can't trust them. I advise that even if you do lease, you ask about their available loaners and what vehicles they have because even during leases, problems can still arise, and the worse thing would be having to get stuck in one of those Disco Sport SUV's (or just any car that isn't your own) for anywhere from a short to long period of time as a loaner. This was years ago, but had a friend with a leased RR Sport, had engine trouble, got stuck in a LR2/Freelander (one of the worst LR vehicles in history) for one month, ruined his entire ownership experience.
Thanks for the heads up. When I inquired the dealer said they always give out loaners. But they're Evoques or similar.

Any case, we put a deposit down on an LWB order yesterday. Fortunately, the dealership was flexible on the refund-ability of the deposit (said they only require no refunds if, for example, you're ordering a hot pink one). So we can get our cash back out if something dramatic changes between now and when it arrives.

Curious to see how long the process takes what with the economy's sudden stop. The UK seems to be doing business as usual...

Thanks again to everybody for their input...it's why Bimmerpost is the best car forum around!
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      03-14-2020, 12:13 PM   #9
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Funny they are going back to BMW V8s - one of our Land Rovers in the past had that engine. We are on our third LR4 at the moment. So far so good actually. The last two both needed new air suspensions at $3500 a pop...traded each one in for the next one. Now that the new Discovery is so ugly, we have a decision to make with the next truck, thinking a Yukon Denali actually.

Good friend of mine has the RR Autobiography, crazy money for that package but he's had no issues
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      03-14-2020, 03:03 PM   #10
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I've never had to put down a deposit for a new car order in CA but I'm pretty sure a deposit on a new car is fully refundable and the order can be cancelled at any time by the customer prior to signing and taking delivery according to California Vehicle Code 11736. Anyway, the link below seems self explanatory if I'm reading it correctly...

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html
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      03-14-2020, 06:04 PM   #11
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I've never had to put down a deposit for a new car order in CA but I'm pretty sure a deposit on a new car is fully refundable and the order can be cancelled at any time by the customer prior to signing and taking delivery according to California Vehicle Code 11736. Anyway, the link below seems self explanatory if I'm reading it correctly...

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html
Woah. Thanks. Agreed. I think it's pretty self explanatory. I'll put that in my pocket but doubt we will need it. And it's something to keep in mind for future purchases.

Who would have thought I would need to drag a lawyer along to deal with NEW car salesmen!
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      03-14-2020, 06:30 PM   #12
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Funny they are going back to BMW V8s - one of our Land Rovers in the past had that engine. We are on our third LR4 at the moment. So far so good actually. The last two both needed new air suspensions at $3500 a pop...traded each one in for the next one. Now that the new Discovery is so ugly, we have a decision to make with the next truck, thinking a Yukon Denali actually.

Good friend of mine has the RR Autobiography, crazy money for that package but he's had no issues
It's tough to go wrong with the Yukon. Is a new generation for that due out soon?

The BMW V8 notion is based off of internet rumor. So take that for what it is. Our sales guy indicated that JLR had just revised their deal with the current engine manufacturer (GM, if I heard him correctly). He seemed surprised they would abandon it so quickly. He also said that the new architectures aren't likely to be around until 2025. But that hybrid powertrains are coming. Soon.

We looked at doing a LWB Autobio. But you can spec a LWB 525 HSE to be very similar for about 30K less. For us, the key difference was that the Autobio lets you get the fancy seats in the second row (foot rest, massage). Not available on the HSE. Not too big of a deal as the second row is already pretty nice. The leather (and some other stuff) might be nicer too. When we sat in an Autobio my wife's comment was "let's sell the house and live in here."

Happy to hear your buddy had no issues with his Rover. For the people we have talked to face-to-face we haven't heard of anybody who was wildly unhappy with the current generation Rover. And we've heard quite a few stories of people who really liked theirs and planned to get another one. And there are a few who loved them but, for one reason or another, ended up with a BMW or a Benz (frequently the issue was number of seats).

We haven't decided yet on whether to lease or purchase. It will be a game time decision based on various payment packages available once the rig hits these shores. For now, we wait. Which gives us time to come up with a good name for the new ride...I like Ruprecht. My wife, not so much.
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      03-15-2020, 10:46 AM   #13
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..... Now that the new Discovery is so ugly.....
Ha ha--it's not a new thing. I remember a long time ago when the Discovery first came out that an automotive writer described the Discovery as "the Yasser Arafat of the SUV world". When I was selling BMWs between 2007 and 2014, our dealership also had a Land Rover dealership. The sales guys all said once you take delivery, your next best friend will be the service writer. So yes it is probably a good idea to lease.--Bob
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      03-16-2020, 03:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by cartaozinho View Post
My wife has settled on a long wheel base (LWB) Range Rover for our next family car. I know quite a few of you own or have owned various luxury cars. And I was hoping you could point me in the direction of a good guide for what to expect when ordering. Not to mention pricing. My googling couldn't dig anything up...the Range Rover forums are much less informative and active than here.

Any info is appreciated.
MB GLS doesnt fit the bill in terms of sizing?

With all reliability issues, your grocery getter, kid's soccer practice, school drop off are all at risk.
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      03-16-2020, 09:24 AM   #15
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MB GLS doesnt fit the bill in terms of sizing?

With all reliability issues, your grocery getter, kid's soccer practice, school drop off are all at risk.
Not my car. Not really my choice. Plus, I'm not usually the one getting squeezed by a lack of leg room (I usually drive during family outings; car seat is on the passenger side). And I think we're knowingly rolling the dice on the potential for reliability issues. We're definitely leaning toward a lease. So we can get "familiar" with the brand without the commitment (you can always make more money, right?). Also, we're pretty easy on cars. Hopefully that helps.

The GLS came in second place. X7 was a distant 3rd almost exclusively because of leg room (it's pretty cramped in the 2nd row with the drivers seat in position for me). Both are well short of the RR LWB. I've got to say, sitting in the back of the LWB makes me feel like a British gangster...git 'us a cuppa tea, will ya.

Funny thought: MB/BMW market the GLS/X7 as the S-class/7-series of SUVs. Compared to those standard bearers I think they're well short. In particular in terms of leg room.
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      03-16-2020, 12:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartaozinho View Post
X7 was a distant 3rd almost exclusively because of leg room (it's pretty cramped in the 2nd row with the drivers seat in position for me).

Curious, was that with the captain chairs or bench seat in the second row?
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      03-16-2020, 12:52 PM   #17
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We leased a Range Rover Sport for my wife a few years ago. Although she loved the vehicle, it was unquestionably the worst lease experience I have had. Over the course of a 3 year lease, the vehicle required 3 brake jobs (rears in year 1, fronts in year 2 and rears again in year 3), each at a dealer cost well over $1000 (albeit CDN$ but that is how I get paid ). All 4 tires need replacing after year 2. The dealer tried to blame my wife's driving style initially. When I explained that her prior vehicles were a Yukon Denali and an Expedition Limited and that neither needed anything other than oil changes over a 3 year lease, the dealer tried to tell me that it was because of the "performance brakes" needed to stop a heavy vehicle like the RR. On top of that the tire pressure sensor kept coming on in the winter (even after checking the pressure) and we were told this is "normal". BS.

When we returned the RR after the 3 year lease, we were dinged over $2k for matters that in the past would have been routine wear and tear (including a small ding on the roof that for all we know was there when we took delivery!). I know dealers, at least here in Canada, have become more strict on lease returns so I buy lease end protection but the entire experience was unsatisfactory.

To top things off, when I complained to the dealership about the excessive costs during the lease, I was provided with a number to call for North American Range Rover Customer Support. Each time I called the number, I ended up in voicemail getting a message advising that the mailbox was full and could not accept further messages!

As Scotty wisely said: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." NO more RRs for us.
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      03-16-2020, 10:08 PM   #18
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Curious, was that with the captain chairs or bench seat in the second row?
Either one. Didn't matter. The new GLS has better leg room in the 2nd row no matter the configuration.
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      03-16-2020, 10:11 PM   #19
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We leased a Range Rover Sport for my wife a few years ago. Although she loved the vehicle, it was unquestionably the worst lease experience I have had. Over the course of a 3 year lease, the vehicle required 3 brake jobs (rears in year 1, fronts in year 2 and rears again in year 3), each at a dealer cost well over $1000 (albeit CDN$ but that is how I get paid ). All 4 tires need replacing after year 2. The dealer tried to blame my wife's driving style initially. When I explained that her prior vehicles were a Yukon Denali and an Expedition Limited and that neither needed anything other than oil changes over a 3 year lease, the dealer tried to tell me that it was because of the "performance brakes" needed to stop a heavy vehicle like the RR. On top of that the tire pressure sensor kept coming on in the winter (even after checking the pressure) and we were told this is "normal". BS.

When we returned the RR after the 3 year lease, we were dinged over $2k for matters that in the past would have been routine wear and tear (including a small ding on the roof that for all we know was there when we took delivery!). I know dealers, at least here in Canada, have become more strict on lease returns so I buy lease end protection but the entire experience was unsatisfactory.

To top things off, when I complained to the dealership about the excessive costs during the lease, I was provided with a number to call for North American Range Rover Customer Support. Each time I called the number, I ended up in voicemail getting a message advising that the mailbox was full and could not accept further messages!

As Scotty wisely said: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." NO more RRs for us.
It is stories like this that give us pause. You don't really hear this about BMW's or Merc's.

The brake pad thing is weird, though. Did they try a pad with a different compound? Was it just rubbing while running? Wouldn't that get hot as hell?
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      03-17-2020, 03:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by cartaozinho View Post
Not my car. Not really my choice. Plus, I'm not usually the one getting squeezed by a lack of leg room (I usually drive during family outings; car seat is on the passenger side). And I think we're knowingly rolling the dice on the potential for reliability issues. We're definitely leaning toward a lease. So we can get "familiar" with the brand without the commitment (you can always make more money, right?). Also, we're pretty easy on cars. Hopefully that helps.

The GLS came in second place. X7 was a distant 3rd almost exclusively because of leg room (it's pretty cramped in the 2nd row with the drivers seat in position for me). Both are well short of the RR LWB. I've got to say, sitting in the back of the LWB makes me feel like a British gangster...git 'us a cuppa tea, will ya.

Funny thought: MB/BMW market the GLS/X7 as the S-class/7-series of SUVs. Compared to those standard bearers I think they're well short. In particular in terms of leg room.

Very valid points here. LWB will be a welcome change in terms of the travel experience. Reliability hopefully is not as bad

Remember this one, it will sell like hot cakes in this market of SUV/Minivan hybrid. I don't understand why neither of the luxury car makers are 'trying' out this form factor anymore.

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      03-17-2020, 11:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartaozinho View Post
Not my car. Not really my choice. Plus, I'm not usually the one getting squeezed by a lack of leg room (I usually drive during family outings; car seat is on the passenger side). And I think we're knowingly rolling the dice on the potential for reliability issues. We're definitely leaning toward a lease. So we can get "familiar" with the brand without the commitment (you can always make more money, right?). Also, we're pretty easy on cars. Hopefully that helps.

The GLS came in second place. X7 was a distant 3rd almost exclusively because of leg room (it's pretty cramped in the 2nd row with the drivers seat in position for me). Both are well short of the RR LWB. I've got to say, sitting in the back of the LWB makes me feel like a British gangster...git 'us a cuppa tea, will ya.

Funny thought: MB/BMW market the GLS/X7 as the S-class/7-series of SUVs. Compared to those standard bearers I think they're well short. In particular in terms of leg room.

Very valid points here. LWB will be a welcome change in terms of the travel experience. Reliability hopefully is not as bad

Remember this one, it will sell like hot cakes in this market of SUV/Minivan hybrid. I don't understand why neither of the luxury car makers are 'trying' out this form factor anymore.

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      03-17-2020, 01:11 PM   #22
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It is stories like this that give us pause. You don't really hear this about BMW's or Merc's.

The brake pad thing is weird, though. Did they try a pad with a different compound? Was it just rubbing while running? Wouldn't that get hot as hell?
To be honest, I am not sure. I doubt they tried different pads as they kept insisting there was nothing wrong with the vehicle and that is was my wife's driving (although we never encountered the issue before and haven't encountered it since). For the third brake job I went to a place other than the dealership. The brake job was cheaper but still far more than I ever paid for a BMW brake job. Not sure if the brakes were any better because the lease expired about 7 months later.
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