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      09-20-2019, 03:40 PM   #1
supra93
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Patent Hints at Possible Development of Mazda RX-9

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It would use a space frame with a double-wishbone suspension and engine location behind the front axle.

A patent from Japan reveals Mazda's development of a space frame chassis that could potentially underpin a future rear-wheel-drive sports car, like the long-rumored, much-anticipated RX-9. The filing is specifically for a “Vehicle Shock Absorbing Structure” and shows a bumper connecting to the platform.

The Japanese publication Motor Magazine discovered the patent. It notes that there's a double-wishbone front suspension. A crossmember in the engine bay appears to force the powertrain to sit behind the axle, creating a front-mid engine layout. The platform uses a mix of carbon fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP) and aluminum in an effort to keep weight to a minimum.

"There seems to be no platform sharing between the RX-9 and other vehicles. I recognize that the RX-9 will be built on an independent platform," an unnamed Mazda source told Motor Magazine, as translated from Japanese to English. The publication speculates that the chassis layout visible in this patent could be the underpinnings for the new sports car.

Filing a patent doesn't mean a company necessarily intends to build the tech in the pictures, it's just a way of reserving the idea so that other companies can't use the concept. This is worth noting because Mazda's CEO Akira Matsumoto doesn't seem too hot on the idea of introducing the RX-9.

"Inside Mazda, we all have the dream of seeing one day a vehicle powered by a rotary engine. But given the number of things we have to do, we had to put this on the back burner, and we have no time frame," he said in June 2019.

There are signs that the RX-9 isn't completely on the back burner, though. For example, a spy video in July 2019 showed two lightly camouflaged RX-8s lapping the Nürburgring during an industry testing period. It was odd to see such a vehicle that was long out of production hitting the track again for evaluation.
https://www.motor1.com/news/371755/m...-patent-japan/

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      09-20-2019, 04:45 PM   #2
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The rotary generation, the 80's that is, is no longer relevant. I guess some people in Mazda still got stuck in the past. Engines are so good nowaday that the rotary (with all of its short coming) will be viewed more like a pain than engineering innovation.

The main two advantages of rotary are light weight and 9K rpm. While the former deserves some merits, the latter is just pure hubris :-) But then you have to deal with all sort of reliability issues.

But rising above any of those said above is I don't think today people really care about rotary technology. The automotive community has move on. Mazda ... hello!
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      09-20-2019, 06:25 PM   #3
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In theory the rotary is great. And it did so well in racing that it had to be banned. You can squeeze a ton of power out of a small displacement and there are very few moving parts to fail.

But in reality no one wants race car like maintenance on their street car. especially when no one cares about displacement or horsepower/liter.

My buddy has one and its a mint car. big turbo putting down 600whp and it weighs like 2700 pounds. Not bad for a 1.3 Liter car. But its always sitting on jack stands. I think he pulls the engine out once a year too. mixes oil with the gasoline to maintain lubrication in the motor. can't run it if its too hot or too cold outside.
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      09-20-2019, 09:47 PM   #4
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Know it’s an old thread but find the hood exceptionally long, as if they put three RX7 plants end to end up front.
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      09-20-2019, 10:55 PM   #5
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Mazda required a partner to develop the MX-5, which uses common Mazda parts. I don't see Mazda developing a bespoke platform and/or engine for a low volume sports car.
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      09-21-2019, 12:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
You can squeeze a ton of power out of a small displacement and there are very few moving parts to fail.
Except for the apex seal...which is the reason they suck.
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      09-21-2019, 06:51 PM   #7
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There is a possibility of this happening. Mazda as of late seems to bring cars out that also have concepts that are based on these before being revealed, such as the KAI concept which turned out to be the new Mazda3 hatch. Mazda currently has a Vision Coupe Concept (which is more of a sedan, or "four-door coupe") as well as an RX-Vision Concept which is a lovely 2-door coupe. Of course, this one will likely come out at a much later date possibly.

Their press materials also do include plans for an Inline 6, which would likely be on a RWD platform as I doubt they would go the Volvo route and mount an inline 6 on a FWD platform. The Inline 6 is rumored to go into the next Mazda 6 or even a new sedan all together (Mazda 9?) but it would work in a possible RX-9 as well.

Should be interesting to see what the future holds. Despite Mazda being a relatively small brand, they are making some great and underrated vehicles and I really do root for them.

https://jalopnik.com/mazda-challenge...h-d-1834636620
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      09-21-2019, 07:43 PM   #8
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I feel like a completely unique chassis and rotary engine would easily be more than double the cost of any other platform. Chances are they will make the platform more "modular" and share it with a number of other AWD SUVs, and then stick another fun/sporty RWD coupe-like car as well. Just very hard to see billions invested in development of the rotary engine. Going for a similar driving dynamic would be more than enough to capture a new segment of drivers.
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      09-23-2019, 01:25 PM   #9
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Renderings with elements from both the RX concept and past patents.




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      09-23-2019, 02:26 PM   #10
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500+ turbo drivetrain with an A8 or A10 trans, nice loud color options & reasonable price please. No under powered overpriced Supra bs please.

Also, Mazda needs better colors in their lineup. Period.
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      09-23-2019, 02:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
500+ turbo drivetrain with an A8 or A10 trans, nice loud color options & reasonable price please. No under powered overpriced Supra bs please.

Also, Mazda needs better colors in their lineup. Period.
I love their Soul Red Crystal and their Deep Crystal Blue but I do agree that they could use some more colors, specifically some bright ones, but it likely won't affect sales, it seems now everyone wants a black, white, or gray car.
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      09-23-2019, 03:14 PM   #12
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Having had RX7s and still an original owner of a low mileage RX8, I can say there are nothing quite like driving these things on B country roads or at the track. The chassis out of the box is sublime and comfortable. It's Mazda magic. I enjoy winding up the turbine smooth Wankel piston feels barbaric in contrast at such high levels of revs. The general car enthusiast ignorance to the rotary is astounding. This engine does require care and attention. Our BMWs also require the care and attention too. And BMWs have its fair share of component failure.

That said, I do not believe rotary engine will come back as a main propulsion solution for an automobile due to emissions. Mazda is a small company and their R&D can only do so much. I applaud them for coming out with innovative engine designs like the new Skyactive-X when most mfg throw in the towel for ICE. Mazda's design philosophy is just artful, a HUGE contrast to BMW's design ethos. Seriously, glowing giant grilles? Numb EPS? Fake exhaust noise? As a driving enthusiast, BMW is doing all sorts of wrong these days.

It be great if Mazda comes up with an inline-6 RWD sedan/coupe. Don't even need turbo as long as it's light and agile. Again something Mazda is generally good at. If a car mfg can deliver on its premise for a driver's car, Mazda would be one of them.... and I can't wait. RX-9.... doubt it. Want to, but doubt it.
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      09-23-2019, 03:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
Having had RX7s and still an original owner of a low mileage RX8, I can say there are nothing quite like driving these things on B country roads or at the track. The chassis out of the box is sublime and comfortable. It's Mazda magic. I enjoy winding up the turbine smooth Wankel piston feels barbaric in contrast at such high levels of revs. The general car enthusiast ignorance to the rotary is astounding. This engine does require care and attention. Our BMWs also require the care and attention too. And BMWs have its fair share of component failure.

That said, I do not believe rotary engine will come back as a main propulsion solution for an automobile due to emissions. Mazda is a small company and their R&D can only do so much. I applaud them for coming out with innovative engine designs like the new Skyactive-X when most mfg throw in the towel for ICE. Mazda's design philosophy is just artful, a HUGE contrast to BMW's design ethos. Seriously, glowing giant grilles? Numb EPS? Fake exhaust noise? As a driving enthusiast, BMW is doing all sorts of wrong these days.

It be great if Mazda comes up with an inline-6 RWD sedan/coupe. Don't even need turbo as long as it's light and agile. Again something Mazda is generally good at. If a car mfg can deliver on its premise for a driver's car, Mazda would be one of them.... and I can't wait. RX-9.... doubt it. Want to, but doubt it.
100% agree, those rotary engines were unlike anything else, packing so much power in such a small size and still feeling incredibly smooth, they had their faults sadly, but I'd love to see it come back.

Mazda styling is quite beautiful. The 6 and even the 3 looks and feels like a luxury car in comparison to their overstyled Honda and Toyota competition. I really wish Mazda would get the recognition they deserved. Their older cars (in particular the ford owned ones) weren't the most reliable, but they've completely improved the brand, and I really do root for them.

Luckily the inline 6 is in Mazda's plans for the future, just gonna have to likely wait a while. I for one, would love an inline 6 Miata, it would literally be perfect!
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      09-24-2019, 09:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
100% agree, those rotary engines were unlike anything else, packing so much power in such a small size and still feeling incredibly smooth, they had their faults sadly, but I'd love to see it come back.

Mazda styling is quite beautiful. The 6 and even the 3 looks and feels like a luxury car in comparison to their overstyled Honda and Toyota competition. I really wish Mazda would get the recognition they deserved. Their older cars (in particular the ford owned ones) weren't the most reliable, but they've completely improved the brand, and I really do root for them.

Luckily the inline 6 is in Mazda's plans for the future, just gonna have to likely wait a while. I for one, would love an inline 6 Miata, it would literally be perfect!
Definitely a lot of vehicle for the money. GF just picked up a 2019 CX-5 GT. I really like it.
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      09-24-2019, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
Not bad for a 2.6 Liter car.
FTFY. And the weight of an LSx vs turbo rotary isn't nearly as far off as you think.

The rotary is compact, but not light.
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      09-24-2019, 10:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
Not bad for a 2.6 Liter car.
FTFY. And the weight of an LSx vs turbo rotary isn't nearly as far off as you think.

The rotary is compact, but not light.
Said another way, it's a big lump of iron.
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      09-24-2019, 10:46 AM   #17
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While the FD RX7 is the second best looking car ever made, I really want them to be done with the rotary.

Give us a nice mid sized Mazda Sport Coupe with a turbo six.

Let the peanut dorito die mazda. Let it die.
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      09-24-2019, 12:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
FTFY. And the weight of an LSx vs turbo rotary isn't nearly as far off as you think.

The rotary is compact, but not light.
Dry Weight:
A fully dressed ls2 is almost 500lbs.
A 13b-MSP fully dressed is 247lbs.

That's 2x the weight!
People praise RX-cars for its handling dynamics. That's due in large part to the small light weight rotary engine. A heavy V8 will impact overall handling in a significant way...negatively. It's like strapping Dwayne Johnson on the hood of your car.

Rotary may come back as a range extender in future Hybrids.
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      09-24-2019, 12:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
Dry Weight:
A fully dressed ls2 is almost 500lbs.
A 13b-MSP fully dressed is 247lbs.

That's 2x the weight!
People praise RX-cars for its handling dynamics. That's due in large part to the small light weight rotary engine. A heavy V8 will impact overall handling in a significant way...negatively. It's like strapping Dwayne Johnson on the hood of your car.

Rotary may come back as a range extender in future Hybrids.
Yeah I could pick up my 13b-rew, no way I can pickup a LS....
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      09-27-2019, 12:39 PM   #20
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Right now, a rotary-powered RX-9 is the only potential new car on the planet I'd get rid of my 718 Cayman for, unless I doubled my budget for a new car.

Do it, Mazda. Do it. Doooo iiiit.
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      09-27-2019, 01:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
Definitely a lot of vehicle for the money. GF just picked up a 2019 CX-5 GT. I really like it.
My wife had a 2016 CX-5 GT and it was great, but we recently just ditched it for a '19 Highlander.
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      09-27-2019, 02:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
Dry Weight:
A fully dressed ls2 is almost 500lbs.
A 13b-MSP fully dressed is 247lbs.
I wouldn't consider the LS2 in the same league as the 13B-MSP.

LS2: 400 hp / 400 lb-ft
13B-MSP: 232 hp / 159 lb-ft
B18C5: 195 hp / 130 lb-ft
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