BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos The average car loan length is 69 months

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-04-2019, 05:58 PM   #45
allinon72
Brigadier General
allinon72's Avatar
United_States
4892
Rep
3,783
Posts

Drives: 20' M2C, 23' X1
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, IN

iTrader: (2)

I like how this thread about increasing loan terms has turned into a high brow financial discussion. The folks running up this average are lucky to have a bank account, much less contemplating the spread on low interest financing.
Appreciate 3
      10-04-2019, 07:32 PM   #46
vreihen16
Recovering Perfectionist
vreihen16's Avatar
Ukraine
14890
Rep
938
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
If they wouldn't offer 7+ year loans....I bet car prices would go down. Lots of people out there have no money sense at all.....as long as they can afford the payment, they don't care what the total cost is.
Car salespeople at the mass market marque dealers around here all negotiate based on the payment amount, not the purchase price. How much can you afford to pay per month? For an extra $5.00/month, you can have these nicer floor mats. The length of the loan is just another number to play with to hit the target payment, and let's face it many Americans can't multiply by 12 to realize that 84 months is a real long time to pay for something that isn't a house.

When I was negotiating my DW's new car back in June, the sales guy started to work up his 4-square based on payment. I told him that I am bringing my own financing, and all numbers will be in purchase price and not monthly payments. Between shutting down his 4-square shell game with no trade-in and making him negotiate on price and not payments, we really threw him off his game.....
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 30K miles
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2019, 07:56 PM   #47
Mavus
Colonel
Mavus's Avatar
2015
Rep
2,659
Posts

Drives: E90 335i, F80 zcp
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA

iTrader: (9)

two years ago I was negotiating with the dealer to purchase wife's X3 35 and I had fleet discount voucher. Dealer tried to first push for lease and then I told him purchase only. Then he said this is how much is mnthly pmt ... I said don't care, what is the purchase price. Then he said with trade-in it is xyz ... but there was no trade-in. Then he mixed in fleet discount. On and on and on ... then I took the paper and wrote the numbers and told him sorry bud I have elec eng degree we can play with numbers til the cows come home ... deal or no deal got to go ... got the deal and loan through PNC for 36m

I can see how many folks fall in the trap that don't understand the difference of appreciating vs depreciating asset and exponential functions
Appreciate 1
Humdizzle6024.00
      10-04-2019, 08:06 PM   #48
Darth One
drunk poster
Darth One's Avatar
United_States
6613
Rep
3,649
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS | E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
I like how this thread about increasing loan terms has turned into a high brow financial discussion.
These threads always become lively discussions because people like to chime in with how smart they are financially. The thing is, different people have different definitions of “smart financially”, which makes the threads entertaining.
Appreciate 1
jmg18493.00
      10-04-2019, 08:09 PM   #49
allinon72
Brigadier General
allinon72's Avatar
United_States
4892
Rep
3,783
Posts

Drives: 20' M2C, 23' X1
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, IN

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
These threads always become lively discussions because people like to chime in with how smart they are financially. The thing is, different people have different definitions of “smart financially”, which makes the threads entertaining.
Yes, and half the people in the "get a low rate car loan and invest the money" camp don't actually do it, but it justifies their borrowing and makes them look like a genius on the internet.
Appreciate 3
Run Silent15127.00
jmg18493.00
      10-04-2019, 09:16 PM   #50
10"
Colonel
10"'s Avatar
No_Country
4946
Rep
2,262
Posts

Drives: orange BMW 1M.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: world

iTrader: (0)

i did a 66 month Financing through a BMW dealer to buy my 1M @ 3% interest rate in 2014. It was my dream car and i wanted it. I'm not the type of person who was ever going to sell it (my 1M will never be for sale again) and for me it was worth it.

do i think long financing plans are a good idea? probably not. But sometimes people like who would like their monthly burden to be less do it to make it more affordable. In Europe 72 month financing deals are a common practice.

Would i go back in time and do the same thing again if had to? 10000% yes!!!
__________________
don't read this. too late...
Appreciate 2
Red Bread4462.00
phoenx331.50
      10-04-2019, 11:50 PM   #51
AlpineWhite_SJ
Banned
United_States
1577
Rep
1,024
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ZCP, 2020 F97 X3MC
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Yes, and half the people in the "get a low rate car loan and invest the money" camp don't actually do it, but it justifies their borrowing and makes them look like a genius on the internet.
It’s the internet. Half the “I pay cash and no debt" people are stressing they’re going to go over their allotted lease miles
Appreciate 2
10"4946.00
Vervain396.50
      10-05-2019, 12:43 AM   #52
premier3is
Major
premier3is's Avatar
1627
Rep
1,002
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW 330i M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ View Post
It’s the internet. Half the “I pay cash and no debt" people are stressing they’re going to go over their allotted lease miles
Also the financial 'guru' on this thread is hilarious. I'm sure half of the recommended things on here aren't even being followed by the ones recommending it lol.
Appreciate 1
10"4946.00
      10-05-2019, 08:05 AM   #53
gatorfast
Major General
gatorfast's Avatar
United_States
4969
Rep
6,854
Posts

Drives: 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ View Post
It’s the internet. Half the “I pay cash and no debt" people are stressing they’re going to go over their allotted lease miles
Also the financial 'guru' on this thread is hilarious. I'm sure half of the recommended things on here aren't even being followed by the ones recommending it lol.
Do as I say, not as I do
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2019, 08:20 AM   #54
OnlyGerman
Major
OnlyGerman's Avatar
United_States
362
Rep
1,259
Posts

Drives: F15, F13, F10, E60
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Sunshine State

iTrader: (0)

Best method is the only finance half - if you don't have half upfront, don't buy. 48month is usually a good term. Never buy new unless you like to watch money burn...lol
Appreciate 2
eluded2959.00
Humdizzle6024.00
      10-05-2019, 01:29 PM   #55
zx10guy
Brigadier General
5139
Rep
3,235
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLife14 View Post
Best method is the only finance half - if you don't have half upfront, don't buy. 48month is usually a good term. Never buy new unless you like to watch money burn...lol
And this gets back to my original reply in this thread. Why not buy new if you hold on to the car for a long while? It's ridiculous to paint with such a broad brush.

I've never traded in any car I've owned. I've only sold off one car to a car buying service because having that car around with at the time two cars already was not prudent. The car buying service offered me more than what I would have gotten if I traded it in. That car I happened to buy used and felt comfortable about it because I was able to talk to the original owner. That car I owned for 16 years before selling it. My daily beater at the time I owned for 8 years until it was done in by a deer. I would have continued to drive that thing till I ran it into the ground. My previous car I drove till it blew a head gasket at around 170,000 miles and owning it for 11 years. My two bikes I currently own are 15 and 10 years old respectively. My 135i is going on 6 years and I have no intention of doing anything with it. Again all these vehicles were purchased new with the exception of the one used car I sold to a car buying service.

Could I have maximized my money more by buying used? Sure. But I certainly didn't piss away money that you're implying by buying new.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2019, 02:00 PM   #56
allinon72
Brigadier General
allinon72's Avatar
United_States
4892
Rep
3,783
Posts

Drives: 20' M2C, 23' X1
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, IN

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
And this gets back to my original reply in this thread. Why not buy new if you hold on to the car for a long while? It's ridiculous to paint with such a broad brush.

I've never traded in any car I've owned. I've only sold off one car to a car buying service because having that car around with at the time two cars already was not prudent. The car buying service offered me more than what I would have gotten if I traded it in. That car I happened to buy used and felt comfortable about it because I was able to talk to the original owner. That car I owned for 16 years before selling it. My daily beater at the time I owned for 8 years until it was done in by a deer. I would have continued to drive that thing till I ran it into the ground. My previous car I drove till it blew a head gasket at around 170,000 miles and owning it for 11 years. My two bikes I currently own are 15 and 10 years old respectively. My 135i is going on 6 years and I have no intention of doing anything with it. Again all these vehicles were purchased new with the exception of the one used car I sold to a car buying service.

Could I have maximized my money more by buying used? Sure. But I certainly didn't piss away money that you're implying by buying new.
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2019, 06:46 PM   #57
zx10guy
Brigadier General
5139
Rep
3,235
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
Chances of finding the exact car I want with only 5000 miles is pretty slim to nil for one. This car would be either a demonstrator or I would question why someone would turn a car back in which is for all intents and purposes barely broken in. Although based on a few posts which have appeared on here about owners wanting to get out of a car that isn't even a year old, I guess it's becoming more common.

I have my reasons as to why I buy new. I do well for myself. I don't need to justify my purchases to anyone on the Internet. As I said, I know I'm not maximizing dollars spent on a car by not going used. But I'm certainly not pissing away money as you and others imply. Most of my cars have been econoboxes. The 135i is the first time I "treated" myself to something way beyond just basic transportation. I did finance all of my vehicles. Some I didn't put any down payment on the vehicle. Others I did. I put down a substantial down payment on the 135i. I've also taken out loan terms on all the cars at 5 years. I've paid all of them off well beyond reaching the loan term. I did this to give myself some flexibility if I needed it for monthly expenses. All the vehicles were financed at 1.49% fixed.

You've said it in your quoting of my first reply in this thread that I'm a rarity. There's more of people such as me out there than you think. I'm just rebutting the tired assumption that anyone who buys new is burning money as the assumption is I'm living beyond my means, I'm going to flip the car quickly, I'll be falling into the perpetual cycle of rolling over negative equity, etc, etc. None of that applies to me.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 1
eluded2959.00
      10-05-2019, 10:11 PM   #58
WestRace
Major
730
Rep
1,087
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

lols I feel bad for the guy who's stuck with a 69 month loan.
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2019, 11:21 PM   #59
GenXer
Major
United_States
1351
Rep
1,031
Posts

Drives: Like a bat out of hell.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: here and there

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Life is short. If it makes you happy go for it. Consequence be damned. If you're not suffering because of it or putting your family at risk, why not?

I see people spending $300-$500 a month on wireless phone service, $200+ on lawn care, $2000+ on purses, $10K+ on watches, $1000 a month on daycare per child!

I've seen 2 dead cousins died millionaires and none of them have managed to take any money with them. If everyone is following strict financial guideline, most people should be driving a 10 year old Camry and who would want that?
Appreciate 4
      10-06-2019, 12:56 AM   #60
48Laws
Banned
705
Rep
1,908
Posts

Drives: '15 F80, '18 991.2 GTS
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
Life is short. If it makes you happy go for it. Consequence be damned. If you're not suffering because of it or putting your family at risk, why not?

I see people spending $300-$500 a month on wireless phone service, $200+ on lawn care, $2000+ on purses, $10K+ on watches, $1000 a month on daycare per child!

I've seen 2 dead cousins died millionaires and none of them have managed to take any money with them. If everyone is following strict financial guideline, most people should be driving a 10 year old Camry and who would want that?

The flaw in your logic is assuming it’s a “this v. That” issue. It’s not! It’s an issue that knows no boundaries. Every industry from automotive, to cell phone companies, to lawn care companies, to textile companies have a predatory element to it that has deluded us all and we are ok with because....uh...life is short and we’re gonna die. Give me a break. It’s not about money per se, it’s about freedom. We are all ok with being prisoners of this exploitative social construct. Tell me how an M6 can sell for $160k new but get “damaged” during shipment and only be worth $2500 in scrap metal? Refer to the Canada BMW Lot thread. You have guys trading in M4s that are only 18 months old because they don’t have the latest updates headlights. That’s a sickness. I’m guilty of it. You are too.

Last edited by 48Laws; 10-06-2019 at 01:09 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2019, 12:57 AM   #61
AlpineWhite_SJ
Banned
United_States
1577
Rep
1,024
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ZCP, 2020 F97 X3MC
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
You need to do the math and figure out if the depreciation outweighs the extra finance cost and maintenance on a used car. Loan rates are typically higher on a used car so there’s a higher finance cost over the life of the loan and potentially higher repair and maintenance on something like a lease return with 30k miles. I drive my cars relatively little (sub 10k) per year so the warranty coverage and lower maintenance costs combined with special dealer finance rates can mean an overall lower cost of ownership in the typical timeframe most hold onto a vehicle.
Appreciate 2
jc05e46m3843.50
zx10guy5139.00
      10-06-2019, 01:56 AM   #62
GenXer
Major
United_States
1351
Rep
1,031
Posts

Drives: Like a bat out of hell.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: here and there

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
The flaw in your logic is assuming it’s a “this v. That” issue. It’s not! It’s an issue that knows no boundaries. Every industry from automotive, to cell phone companies, to lawn care companies, to textile companies have a predatory element to it that has deluded us all and we are ok with because....uh...life is short and we’re gonna die. Give me a break. It’s not about money per se, it’s about freedom. We are all ok with being prisoners of this exploitative social construct. Tell me how an M6 can sell for $160k new but get “damaged” during shipment and only be worth $2500 in scrap metal? Refer to the Canada BMW Lot thread. You have guys trading in M4s that are only 18 months old because they don’t have the latest updates headlights. That’s a sickness. I’m guilty of it. You are too.
I think we are suffering from first world problem. Our basic needs and wants are already met x2 over. Even if were to suffer a financial set back which would cause us to lose our precious BMWs, it wouldn't matter that much. Many people will still have other assets. You may have to "suffer" driving a Toyota for a while or ask grandma to watch the kids, have dandelions on the front lawn -- oh what will the neighbors think.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2019, 09:03 AM   #63
vreihen16
Recovering Perfectionist
vreihen16's Avatar
Ukraine
14890
Rep
938
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i3 BEV
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Orange County, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
...have dandelions on the front lawn -- oh what will the neighbors think.
My elderly neighbors are already asking me for the phone number of our lawn care company! After years of cobbling together free/junk lawn tractors to mow our bedrock minefield back yard, we broke down (well, our last lawn tractor did) and hired a local lawn guy who is just starting out. His hourly rate is less than half of what I make, and I look at the deal as supporting a local business. In the long run, it comes out cheaper to pay the lawn guy than it would be to finance a commercial rock^H^H^H lawnmower and do it myself.....
__________________
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World (Lodge interior), Tech/Driving Assist Packages, 30K miles
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2019, 09:12 AM   #64
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
That's a nice story, but you're the outlier, by far. I shake my head at Dodge Journeys with paper plates and wonder what the rate and term are. The American auto makers are particularly bad - anyone above a 500 score can drive away with an Impala financed for 80 months at 22%.
LOL. Is that any worse than someone leasing a car they couldn't afford to buy?
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2019, 09:27 AM   #65
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
I completely disagree with this argument. First off net worth has nothing to do with the ability to afford buying a car, regardless if it is new or used. Affordability come from useable income one can afford to outlay for his transportation needs. If it were true that it doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, then almost anyone would be in financial ruin. The financial impact of purchasing a car (if not bought as a toy), comes down simply to how much per-mile the car costs the owner to drive, which is calculated using a formula for total cost of ownership, or Total Lifecycle Cost (basically purchase price, fuel, maintenance, and repair). The longer the car is owned the cost of initial purchase is amortized over a longer prior of time and mileage. Buying used just means the car has theoretically, an overall shorter life span for the person who bought it used. It's nowhere near 50 years.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 10-06-2019 at 02:01 PM..
Appreciate 1
zx10guy5139.00
      10-06-2019, 09:31 AM   #66
48Laws
Banned
705
Rep
1,908
Posts

Drives: '15 F80, '18 991.2 GTS
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I think we are suffering from first world problem. Our basic needs and wants are already met x2 over. Even if were to suffer a financial set back which would cause us to lose our precious BMWs, it wouldn't matter that much. Many people will still have other assets. You may have to "suffer" driving a Toyota for a while or ask grandma to watch the kids, have dandelions on the front lawn -- oh what will the neighbors think.
The issue I’m discussing is not with a specific brand. Toyota also has 69 month loans, I imagine. . And there is no “1st World” when these same cars have parts and are assembled in “3rd World” countries. The system is one world. We exploit cheap labor in other countries then we fleece our own people in our country when we sell it beyond its intrinsic value. Once we stop giving value to these things, we will see a fundamental shift. You’ll laugh at the idea of a “rare” M2 CS with a $20k markup because you’ll know it’s not rare, your fun is regulated by strict road laws, and it TOO will be worth a fraction of what it sold for. If we all abandon the need for a new car every 2-3 years because of individual insecurities, we gain our power back, avoid debt. And working at your awful job will no longer be an obligation because you have a lower need to pay down chit you don’t need. You’ll have more time to travel, family, health, and creative explorations we put aside because we have an M4 payment due every 28 days.
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:31 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST