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      09-01-2019, 01:47 PM   #1079
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Huh? Many manual transmissions do have rev matching now (my f80 m3 for example) and how can you make a manual clutch or shift lever faster? The whole point of it is that you, the human, control the shift and determine how fast it will be.
Proper chassis and transmission mounted linkages are faster than what BMW typically uses for example. My best experience with this is Honda, BMW 6MT are quite slow without really working at rowing.

Better tuned hydraulics make clutch actuation faster.

Perhaps quicker, more precise and closer is better wording.

Dealer didn't have a manual when I was there, does the F80 MT prep cogs and match gear speeds between shifts? If truly so I concede and tip my hat to that at least.
Yes you can simply select the lower gear and the car will automatically blip the throttle to perfectly match the revs. No need to heal toe or rev match downshift, just clutch in move the shift lever and clutch out.

This can be disabled though by select sport+ throttle mapping which will disable the auto rev match.
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      09-01-2019, 04:19 PM   #1080
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It's really not that hard to drive a manual well. I don't want any aids, or the need to have to disable them. Of course I say that and I do sort of like Hill Hold.
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      09-01-2019, 06:22 PM   #1081
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Yes you can simply select the lower gear and the car will automatically blip the throttle to perfectly match the revs. No need to heal toe or rev match downshift, just clutch in move the shift lever and clutch out.

This can be disabled though by select sport+ throttle mapping which will disable the auto rev match.
Glad it can be disabled as I think I'd miss doing the heel-toe work myself. That said, pity that folks aren't driving manuals as that's an easy introduction. Downshifting and hill starts in first we're the hardest for me when I learned.
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      09-03-2019, 02:02 AM   #1082
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New Toyota Supra variants coming every year

https://www.goauto.com.au/future-mod...-03/79834.html

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TOYOTA Motor Corporation’s chief product specialist for the all-new A90-series Supra, Tetsuya Tada, has confirmed that fans of the reborn sportscar only have to wait less than 12 months until its first revision is revealed, with many more to follow in subsequent years.

Speaking to GoAuto this week at the A90 Supra national media launch at Phillip Island, Victoria, Mr Tada said that all aspects of the sportscar are eligible to be tweaked as part of annual upgrades that will take place across its lifecycle, the first of which will be unveiled around mid-2020.

“Not just the power. Suspension, body, (too),” he said. “Every year we will update. Otherwise, sportscar people just get bored.

“We’ve started already on development for the upgrade next year.”

Mr Tada was quick to add that he did not believe the new Supra had any shortcomings in its current form, which need to be addressed. Instead, the yearly updates will focus on creating different versions of the sportscar for particular purposes.

“The current Supra is a base model, but sportscars should have a different direction, like a track side people maybe want,” he said.

“There’s so many different directions. To respond to every single direction, I would actually like to introduce (something). But, of course, (it costs) more money (to develop).”

Mr Tada clarified that these upgrades will not necessarily need to be developed in conjunction with BMW, which typically gives its models similar updates once during a lifecycle.

“(There are) many ways to do it,” he said. “Maybe we might ask for some support from BMW.”

Asked if that support might come in the form of a different inline six-cylinder engine, such as BMW’s twin-turbocharged S58 unit that motivates the recently launched 375kW/600Nm M Competition versions of the X3 and X4 mid-size SUVs, Mr Tada said that is a possibility, adding that it could fit in the Supra’s engine bay.

His view is at odds with that of BMW M GmbH chairman of the board of management Markus Flasch, who told Australian journalists, including GoAuto, in May that a higher-performing version of the Supra’s Z4 cousin with the S58 unit was not being pursued due to the significant re-engineering that would be required to fit it.

Either way, Mr Tada said the potential introduction of the S58 engine or a manual transmission “will maybe be delayed” until later in the Supra’s lifecycle.

“You can’t do everything at the same time. You have to prioritise,” he said.

When asked why a manual version of the A90 Supra is not available yet, given the mechanically related BMW Z4 is available with a six-speed unit, Mr Tada said it is a case of maintaining demand after three-pedal enthusiasts sample the sportscar’s automatic transmission (AT).

“The biggest reason why we didn’t actually produce a manual is that I would like the customer to firstly feel the new-generation automatic transmission,” he said.

“At the moment, the customer’s saying manual before even trying, but if they drive the AT, then I’d like to talk to them after. The technology, the performance is greater ... and with software updates, it will improve more.

“The higher priority goes to the customer’s demands. If we are still receiving a lot of requests after they try new-generation AT, we’ll think about it.”

Mr Tada used Chevrolet’s Corvette as an example, pointing out that manual variants of its C7 series only accounted for 10 to 15 per cent of sales, with the US brand also deciding to move to an automatic-only line-up for the recently revealed C8 model.

However, an ode to the aero-top A80 Supra is unlikely with the A90, with Mr Tada telling journalists it is “technically” possible – given its twin under the skin, BMW’s Z4, is a soft-top convertible – but not currently planned.

Australian deliveries of the A90 Supra start this month, priced from $84,900 plus on-road costs and motivated by BMW’s B58 single-turbo engine tuned to produce 250kW of power and 500Nm of torque in this application.
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      09-03-2019, 04:23 AM   #1083
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It getting better

I was a bit sour on the new Supra, but I think it’ll open up the tuning platform for newer cars again. It’s nice to see that it’s so easily modifiable.
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      09-03-2019, 05:47 AM   #1084
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That would be a new strategy if they really go down the update car every year route (updates you can see)
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      09-03-2019, 09:31 AM   #1085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Yes. If one has to pick between a V6 car made by Toyota, and an inline-6 car made by BMW, I'd certainly say the former is more "Supra," regardless of the engine configuration. What we got was essentially a Z4 coupe with Toyota body panels.

BTW, I'm over 35 and could care less about Fast and the Furious.
That's why I said the "under-35 crowd" are the ones complaining.

It's not like it's the first time manufacturers have used another engine or had developing it.

Yamaha and the SHO V6, Porsche and the Harley VROD, Lotus using Toyota engines, etc, etc.
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      09-03-2019, 03:07 PM   #1086
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Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I am not questioning your marketing sense, I am questioning your knowledge of Toyota production costs. You say it would be $50K-$55k for a car with a shortened lightened less luxury Lexus chassis with a V35a and unique interior and exterior. But that just described the the $95K RC F track edition without even factoring the costs of a unique interior and exterior and cost differential of the V35a over the 2ur. What makes the car $40K cheaper out of no where?

They may have turned people off but they also brought in new perspective buyers. Yeah they definitely should have tried to replicate their 90s sales flop for the sake of bragging rights by celica owners at car meets. If it doesn't sell well, that just means it lives up to its predecessor.

The manual transmission part isn't a big deal today for everyone especially at a time when the corvette and 3 series wont have them either.
I don't understand why you keeping bringing up the RC-F Track edition. It's more expensive because of "adding lightness" through things like carbon fiber and lighter components. I'm just talking about lopping half a foot off the RC-F chassis, like BMW has done in the past, and those cars ended up being cheaper than the larger cars. Plus, specialty cars like the Track Edition usually have considerable profit margins compared to regular versions.
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      09-03-2019, 03:09 PM   #1087
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
That's why I said the "under-35 crowd" are the ones complaining.

It's not like it's the first time manufacturers have used another engine or had developing it.

Yamaha and the SHO V6, Porsche and the Harley VROD, Lotus using Toyota engines, etc, etc.
Sure, brands like Lotus use a Toyota engine...heck, even the McLaren F1 used a BMW engine, but the entire underpinnings of the Supra are BMW, which is quite a bit different.
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      09-03-2019, 03:38 PM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
I don't understand why you keeping bringing up the RC-F Track edition. It's more expensive because of "adding lightness" through things like carbon fiber and lighter components. I'm just talking about lopping half a foot off the RC-F chassis, like BMW has done in the past, and those cars ended up being cheaper than the larger cars. Plus, specialty cars like the Track Edition usually have considerable profit margins compared to regular versions.
The RC was developed by using many other chassis's and still came out to the same weight as the longer GS. Here we have a Lexus chassis that was developed yet no weight was able to be saved from.

I bring up the RC-F track edition because it is the lightweight version of that. Of course CF had to be used because if weight savings were cheap/easy at this point to save weight then they would have done it when initially developing the RC chassis to begin with.

You say they could just cut a foot off and save weight but that did not save weight when creating the RC initially so how would it work here?

Yes specialty cars do have a larger profit margin but that is because the economies of scale of a specialty model allow them to do. The RC-F Track Edition would be way more expensive if it didn't share most of the interiors, exteriors, drivetrains, and suspensions with the RC and RC-F models. The M4 GTS would be way more expensive if it didn't share most of the interiors, exteriors, drivetrains, and suspensions with the 4 series and M4 models. How does this work with the Supra since it doesn't have a base car to build off of? This is why the GTR is so much more money than the Skyline GTRs were of old (after adjusting for inflation obviously), they no longer have the base Skyline models to build off of.

And yeah 1 series cars were cheaper than 3 series models because it does not make business sense to price the lower model higher
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      09-03-2019, 04:42 PM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
I don't understand why you keeping bringing up the RC-F Track edition. It's more expensive because of "adding lightness" through things like carbon fiber and lighter components. I'm just talking about lopping half a foot off the RC-F chassis, like BMW has done in the past, and those cars ended up being cheaper than the larger cars. Plus, specialty cars like the Track Edition usually have considerable profit margins compared to regular versions.
You can't shorten/extend platforms just because you want to. They have set hardpoints, set wheelbase range, etc. that limit their flexibility.

If you want to sportscar, best to build a purpose built sportscar chassis. A shortened sedan chassis isn't going to cut it as its built to handle much heavier weight and size requirements.

The Nissan 350/370's are great examples of this. Just a compromised car. A 370Z weighs the same as a Corvette C6(similar time frame for comparison) with far less power, equipment, and a much smaller footprint. The S2000 was much lighter despite being around the same size as well.

A shortened RC chassis, still has a good chance of being way overweight as its already been modified and ended up too heavy as it is.

Last edited by See5; 09-03-2019 at 04:53 PM..
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      09-04-2019, 12:05 PM   #1090
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Numbers for August are in. 643 Supras were sold.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...st-2019-sales/
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      09-04-2019, 04:49 PM   #1091
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Does the B58 sit more upright in the Supra compared to most BMWs? I was a bit perplexed to see a recent YouTuber showing his turbo swap Supra and he yanked the airbox and the turbo was easily accessible. On my M235, the N55 leans way over and I can't even see the turbo from the top. The B58 M240s are the same way.

I REALLY wish the styling of the Supra wasn't so over the top. It's dialed up to 11 whereas an 8 would do. Too many fake vents, fins, foils, and a wonky nose. Otherwise, the shape is nice and overall, it's pretty damn killer car. Perhaps I'll change my mind when I see one in person.
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      09-04-2019, 05:08 PM   #1092
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I keep hearing positive opinions of the cars in-person aesthetics and presence, especially in yellow.

Tada insisting the MT enthusiasts should try the AT and be won over by its evolution and ever improving tech is bogus. There is absolutely a market and stubborn customer base that will accept nothing short of MT for a weekend (or daily) car. Let's hope its coming in one of the future variants ($$)
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      09-04-2019, 07:39 PM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Does the B58 sit more upright in the Supra compared to most BMWs? I was a bit perplexed to see a recent YouTuber showing his turbo swap Supra and he yanked the airbox and the turbo was easily accessible. On my M235, the N55 leans way over and I can't even see the turbo from the top. The B58 M240s are the same way.

I REALLY wish the styling of the Supra wasn't so over the top. It's dialed up to 11 whereas an 8 would do. Too many fake vents, fins, foils, and a wonky nose. Otherwise, the shape is nice and overall, it's pretty damn killer car. Perhaps I'll change my mind when I see one in person.
Same 30° angle as any relatively recent BMW straight six. Remember, this car is a BMW chassis with a BMW engine assembled at a BMW plant.
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      09-04-2019, 09:34 PM   #1094
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I REALLY wish the styling of the Supra wasn't so over the top. It's dialed up to 11 whereas an 8 would do. Too many fake vents, fins, foils, and a wonky nose. Otherwise, the shape is nice and overall, it's pretty damn killer car. Perhaps I'll change my mind when I see one in person.
I looked at a local launch edition and was surprised by all of the fake vents. I knew it going in, but to see it in person was disappointing. Even more so than the fake vents on the side of the M2. I am still interested in driving one, but don't see myself pulling the trigger.
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      09-05-2019, 08:22 AM   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I REALLY wish the styling of the Supra wasn't so over the top. It's dialed up to 11 whereas an 8 would do. Too many fake vents, fins, foils, and a wonky nose. Otherwise, the shape is nice and overall, it's pretty damn killer car. Perhaps I'll change my mind when I see one in person.
In person the shape is very aggressive where the rest is toned down to result in a muscular shape. The fake vents are truly blown out of proportion, yeah they are fake but you don't notice them unless you're looking for them. The nose is still fugly though and they should have made the mouth wider instead of matching the FT1
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      09-05-2019, 09:51 AM   #1096
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I disagree on not noticing the fake vents
Everytime you'd open your driver door you'd have to look at the largest fake vent on the body next to the handle
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      09-05-2019, 12:26 PM   #1097
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Sure, brands like Lotus use a Toyota engine...heck, even the McLaren F1 used a BMW engine, but the entire underpinnings of the Supra are BMW, which is quite a bit different.
This guy gets it. The supra is essentially the Asian version of the crossfire. It's nothing like the other guy was saying.

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Originally Posted by See5 View Post
The Nissan 350/370's are great examples of this. Just a compromised car. A 370Z weighs the same as a Corvette C6(similar time frame for comparison) with far less power, equipment, and a much smaller footprint. The S2000 was much lighter despite being around the same size as well.
Another silly comparison. The Corvette is a more expensive car all the way around, so of course it's going to be a more of a performance car. Clearly though, Asian companies do not really see the value in supporting performance car as they do any other vehicle they make. Toyota went to another brand to make their car and Nissan decided to make one platform/powertrain and keep it the same for over a decade. Honda is the exception here, but the NSX isn't exactly cheap. But I respect Honda much more for their attempt with the NSX than their Asian competitors, which should be ashamed of themselves.
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      09-05-2019, 01:27 PM   #1098
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Same 30° angle as any relatively recent BMW straight six. Remember, this car is a BMW chassis with a BMW engine assembled at a BMW plant.
That's what I figured, but if you watch this video (look at the 7 minute mark), the turbo and EWG is easily serviceable/replaceable compared to any turbo I6 BMW I've ever seen. Most every other turbo swap requires you to yank engine mounts, lift the engine slightly, and have some creative movements to get the turbo out the bottom. I suppose the revised B58 without exterior exhaust manifold is freeing up a lot of space and makes things FAR more accessible from the top. That alone should make turbo swaps very common on these cars.

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      09-05-2019, 01:36 PM   #1099
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I disagree on not noticing the fake vents
Everytime you'd open your driver door you'd have to look at the largest fake vent on the body next to the handle
If I got one, I'd body color paint/wrap for the hood vents and develop body colored piece that fits into the fake door vent to make it blend in with the fender. I'd then body color paint/wrap the front and rear lower valence black winglets (wish they weren't there) and the black portion in the lower front bumper.

The Japanese had such organic and elegant designs back in the 1990s and early 2000s. The new Supra got close, but it's like they just couldn't quite resist. Kind of like American designs where they can't let go of pedestal rear spoilers and chrome wheels.
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      09-05-2019, 09:39 PM   #1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I REALLY wish the styling of the Supra wasn't so over the top. It's dialed up to 11 whereas an 8 would do. Too many fake vents, fins, foils, and a wonky nose. Otherwise, the shape is nice and overall, it's pretty damn killer car. Perhaps I'll change my mind when I see one in person.
In person the shape is very aggressive where the rest is toned down to result in a muscular shape. The fake vents are truly blown out of proportion, yeah they are fake but you don't notice them unless you're looking for them. The nose is still fugly though and they should have made the mouth wider instead of matching the FT1
[QUOTE=super51fan;25216285]
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post

In person the shape is very aggressive where the rest is toned down to result in a muscular shape. The fake vents are truly blown out of proportion, yeah they are fake but you don't notice them unless you're looking for them. The nose is still fugly though and they should have made the mouth wider instead of matching the FT1
I would notice all of the fake vents Everytime I would walk to the car.

Z4 coupe photo for fun in there.
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