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View Poll Results: What was the result of the testimony of Mr. Mueller?
Meh...nothing new. SSDD. 24 38.10%
Damning for the democrats. 21 33.33%
Damning for the republicans. 2 3.17%
Damning for Mr. Trump 7 11.11%
Dumpster Fire for the entire republic. 20 31.75%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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      07-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
What did I take from it? Nothing Earth Shattering if you already read or got a summary of the Report.
If you had a opinion prior to today's testimony, you probably still have your same opinion now.

But it is VERY clear that Trump and his inner circle Obstructed justice and the investigation, period.
And Trump and his inner circle absolutely welcomes help, assistance, and involvement from Russia, Period.

And Trumps claim or lie that the Mueller Report clears him of any wrongdoing is completely false and laughable.
you didnt get that from the report so maybe you just got the highlights from cnn?
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      07-24-2019, 04:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
The glaring deficiency with regards to the Mueller report is with regards to the OLC and obstruction. The report should've explicitly said either they found evidence of obstruction but elected not to recommend prosecution because of the OLC OR it should've said that because of the OLC the charge of obstruction was not investigated or determined. Something to that effect.
you mean like when he said they did not come to a determination of a crime due to the OLC?

Which he is correct. What he can do is recommend further investigation and/or impeachment, which he did not.

That is what the Dems were hoping for. Something like what Ken Star did for Clinton when he recommended impeachment.
Right. The OLC, as I understand it, just states that the DOJ can't prosecute a sitting POTUS, which is different from saying there's enough evidence of a crime.

Unfortunately for the Demo the Mueller investigation ran through the DOJ rather than outside like Ken Starr.
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      07-24-2019, 05:07 PM   #25
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I think it might swing the needle to favor to the Trump side. There are many dems and Indy’s that only watch the garbage news channels who have know idea what all actually happened over the course of this investigation. The few who actually watched these two hearings today got to see a lot more then spoon fed to them by cnn, msnbc omitting actual news that doesn’t fit into the networks narrow slot. Hopefully it will be eye opening for some. I look forward to the next Presidential approval poll. I think the numbers will be even higher then the recent positive number Trump got.

Almost felt bad for Mueller today, almost. He showed me his true colors when he initially hired the dem hit squad, who thankfully couldn’t accomplish the hit. Fail.

Now we look forward to upcoming Horowitz report, it’s safe to say it’s going to shine the light on the really ugly side of the of the assault on our democracy by the left and how high up it went. Now that Mueller is done and shuffling off to wherever he’s going to retire Horowitz report will be coming soon.Gonna be good.
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      07-24-2019, 05:42 PM   #26
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I was distraught that the Republicans did not seem concerned about the Russian assault on our elective system and what the future holds with their continued interference.
Mueller clearly said there was sweeping interference from the Russians, the Trump campaign welcomed the Russian interference and the Trump campaign lied and covered up and did not cooperate.
On Friday, its back in the courts for the McGahan subpoena, among others.

Its time Mitch McConnell allows some election security legislation that has bi-partison support.
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      07-24-2019, 05:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
I was distraught that the Republicans did not seem concerned about the Russian assault on our elective system and what the future holds with their continued interference.
Mueller clearly said there was sweeping interference from the Russians, the Trump campaign welcomed the Russian interference and the Trump campaign lied and covered up and did not cooperate.
On Friday, its back in the courts for the McGahan subpoena, among others.

Its time Mitch McConnell allows some election security legislation that has bi-partison support.
From what I’ve read, it really didn’t amount to much, and was really nothing new. They spent a paltry amount of money on FB ads, and trolled the internet with divisive fake news. Maybe I’ve missed something. Anyway, the Russians have been “interfering” this way for a long time. And it does not appear to be all that effective. It’s not as if they were hacking votes or anything. The whole Russian interference narrative seems like a tempest in a teapot that has been elevated into the spot light to serve as a talking point against Trump.
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      07-24-2019, 05:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
I was distraught that the Republicans did not seem concerned about the Russian assault on our elective system and what the future holds with their continued interference.
Mueller clearly said there was sweeping interference from the Russians, the Trump campaign welcomed the Russian interference and the Trump campaign lied and covered up and did not cooperate.
On Friday, its back in the courts for the McGahan subpoena, among others.

Its time Mitch McConnell allows some election security legislation that has bi-partison support.
They are but it's a separate issue. The Dems are trying to tie Trump to current Russian interference so the Reps have to address that.
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      07-24-2019, 07:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post

1.But it is VERY clear that Trump and his inner circle Obstructed justice and the investigation, period.

2.And Trump and his inner circle absolutely welcomes help, assistance, and involvement from Russia, Period.
So.....what was the obstruction?

And .....what statute makes part 2 criminally illegal? And was there testimony from the Mueller report to show that Part 2 actually happened?
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      07-24-2019, 07:12 PM   #30
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My take away today was..... Mueller was surprised at the questioning from both Dems and Republicans....and I don’t think Mueller was not nearly involved in the “Mueller Report” as previously conveyed.

Today was a waste of time and taxpayers money.
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      07-24-2019, 07:36 PM   #31
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as we can see, Adam Schiff has aged to a shocking degree since the "RUSSIA!!" investigation began==>
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      07-24-2019, 07:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scostu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post

1.But it is VERY clear that Trump and his inner circle Obstructed justice and the investigation, period.

2.And Trump and his inner circle absolutely welcomes help, assistance, and involvement from Russia, Period.
So.....what was the obstruction?

And .....what statute makes part 2 criminally illegal? And was there testimony from the Mueller report to show that Part 2 actually happened?
I too am having trouble finding Obstruction of Hoax in the USC
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      07-24-2019, 09:29 PM   #33
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IMO, it is clear to me that Mueller did not take part in many of the interviews (he even said as much) and it is also clear to me he wrote little of the report himself. In thinking this over the past several hours I would actually not be surprised if this were actually true. With this many investigators and the size of the investigation, it would make sense that he would have overseen it but the others would have actually been much more "hands on" with the day to day operations.

I also think this is a big part of why Mueller wanted his longtime aide, Aaron Zebley, there as well to answer questions because in all likelihood he knows the report inside and out and lets face it, his younger brain probably works a bit better.

With that said, and having read the report prior to this, it really did not change what I thought because I have worked around the law all of my entire adult life and I can read and understand a report such as this.

I am still utterly disgusted in the conduct of Trump and those around him throughout the campaign and this investigation. His conduct and others is frankly reprehensible and at times outright criminal. The lies and deceit and self-serving conduct are far from patriotic and the American public deserves better from anyone who runs for public office, or occupies a public office, especially the Oval Office.

All of America should be disgusted, but unfortunately, too many people put party before country.
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      07-24-2019, 09:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
IMO, it is clear to me that Mueller did not take part in many of the interviews (he even said as much) and it is also clear to me he wrote little of the report himself. In thinking this over the past several hours I would actually not be surprised if this were actually true. With this many investigators and the size of the investigation, it would make sense that he would have overseen it but the others would have actually been much more "hands on" with the day to day operations.

I also think this is a big part of why Mueller wanted his longtime aide, Aaron Zebley, there as well to answer questions because in all likelihood he knows the report inside and out and lets face it, his younger brain probably works a bit better.

With that said, and having read the report prior to this, it really did not change what I thought because I have worked around the law all of my entire adult life and I can read and understand a report such as this.

I am still utterly disgusted in the conduct of Trump and those around him throughout the campaign and this investigation. His conduct and others is frankly reprehensible and at times outright criminal. The lies and deceit and self-serving conduct are far from patriotic and the American public deserves better from anyone who runs for public office, or occupies a public office, especially the Oval Office.

All of America should be disgusted, but unfortunately, too many people put party before country.
Was this worth $25M+ of our money? Can you honestly say that this was not partisan driven?

Trump is Trump but the Dems are displaying conduct far worse at this point.
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      07-24-2019, 09:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
I was distraught that the Republicans did not seem concerned about the Russian assault on our elective system and what the future holds with their continued interference.
Mueller clearly said there was sweeping interference from the Russians, the Trump campaign welcomed the Russian interference and the Trump campaign lied and covered up and did not cooperate.
On Friday, its back in the courts for the McGahan subpoena, among others.

Its time Mitch McConnell allows some election security legislation that has bi-partison support.
It is my understanding that after the Mueller hearing McConnell once again blocked another election security bill. So much for Senate Republicans giving a shit.
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      07-24-2019, 09:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
It is my understanding that after the Mueller hearing McConnell once again blocked another election security bill. So much for Senate Republicans giving a shit.
https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-acti...ller-testimony

"Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.) blocked each of the bills. She didn't give reason for her objections, or say if she was objecting on behalf of herself or the Senate GOP caucus. A spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment."
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      07-24-2019, 09:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Was this worth $25M+ of our money? Can you honestly say that this was not partisan driven?

Trump is Trump but the Dems are displaying conduct far worse at this point.
Yes, actually is was. It was worth every single penny of it to know what the Russians were up to, what Trump and company were up to, the 37 indictments that came from it so far, and the other on-going investigations.

Let's put this in perspective:

Lawrence Walsh and Ronald Reagan's Iran-Contra over 8 years: $47.4 million way back then in around 1990's dollars.

Bill Clinton / Ken Starr over 6 years: $52 million alone plus another close to $50 million in all the other independent counsel investigations that took place during Clinton's presidency.

So yeah, $25 million was worth it. Plus, it is estimated that Manafort's conviction alone will bring back $42 to $46 million in seized money and property.

As for the last part, I don't subscribe to the Deep State is out to get Trump conspiracy theory. Yet at the same time, I am willing to wait and see what the two investigations reveal as long as they are proven to be done in an above the board, fair and professional manner.
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      07-24-2019, 09:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-acti...ller-testimony

"Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.) blocked each of the bills. She didn't give reason for her objections, or say if she was objecting on behalf of herself or the Senate GOP caucus. A spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment."
Thank you for the clarification as to who blocked them. I stand by my last part of the statement.
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      07-25-2019, 10:13 AM   #39
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you didnt get that from the report so maybe you just got the highlights from cnn?
Or NPR, BBC, WAPO, WSJ, Dallas Morning News, Fox NEWS (not opinion, though Judge Nap is in this camp), AP, Reuters, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam. In other words, most reasonable people. But not the Trumpsters.
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      07-25-2019, 10:35 AM   #40
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you didnt get that from the report so maybe you just got the highlights from cnn?
The entire second volume of the Mueller Report is about obstruction of justice. 10 unique incidents. trimp acted unlawfully and needs to be held accountable.

In other words he broke the law and should be jailed.
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      07-25-2019, 10:59 AM   #41
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The entire second volume of the Mueller Report is about obstruction of justice. 10 unique incidents. trimp acted unlawfully and needs to be held accountable.

In other words he broke the law and should be jailed.
Accountable?!? (trumpster clutches pearls!)
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      07-25-2019, 11:16 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
you didnt get that from the report so maybe you just got the highlights from cnn?
The entire second volume of the Mueller Report is about obstruction of justice. 10 unique incidents. trimp acted unlawfully and needs to be held accountable.

In other words he broke the law and should be jailed.
Yesterday was a dud for your team. It's really over. If you feel so strongly, bring it up again in 2024...

Next stop Omar? I believe we will find out that she broke many laws shortly. Oh, the irony
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      07-25-2019, 11:29 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
The entire second volume of the Mueller Report is about obstruction of justice. 10 unique incidents. trimp acted unlawfully and needs to be held accountable.

In other words he broke the law and should be jailed.
currently it is just a gathering of facts, with no rebuttals of the facts or anything that would normally be included in an investigation. once that is complete, then we can see if he did or did not actually attempt to obstruct justice. He cant be found guilty until he addresses the charges levied against him and provides evidence to support his case. Unless you are a fan of guilty until proven innocent. It is up to congress to complete this investigation and determine the next step.

furthermore, if they are unable to prove he personally, whether directly or through ordering employees, worked with a foreign entity to affect the elections, then technically you cant obstruct an investigation if you know you are innocent. To have obstruction of justice, a crime has to be committed to obstruct the investigation from. If they cant explicitly implicate him in the 1st crime, it is a tough road to go down for obstruction. They can try to argue he obstructed to save his friends or save his image, but it is less of a slam dunk case than if he had been found guilty of the 1st charge.

The Mueller report is just a gathering of part of the story. Dems were hoping for some smoking gun that said Trump is guilty, but instead got a non-determination and an investigation that doesnt tell the full story. Maybe another 25mill and 3 years of investigations can finish this thing out...
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      07-25-2019, 11:34 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
... technically you cant obstruct an investigation if you know you are innocent...
As an arm chair attorney, I say yes you can obstruct an investigation where you are not found guilty. It's about interfering with the mechanisms of justice, and not related to the underlying crime.
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