[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by DBV1

...

Love how with Tesla, I get new features/software updated for free and not stuck with legacy software (have already have 3 updates since owning the car for a month that added features). Tesla is changing the industry. Legacy carmakers are quickly trying to play catch up, which will be awesome for the market place, as create more innovation. Tesla is so far ahead in the EV race though and charging infrastructure....

And that's the rub. Tesla will be the first to tell owners that Tesla owns the software, not the car owner. They can turn it off and on at will.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by DBV1

That is far from true and a hilarious statement.

I am a BMW guy - mostly 5 Series and still own a X5d and own a new Model S Tesla and I love cars. I just don’t get how anyone can’t at least be intrigued by Tesla and I am a BMW loyalist.

Love how with Tesla, I get new features/software updated for free and not stuck with legacy software (have already have 3 updates since owning the car for a month that added features). Tesla is changing the industry. Legacy carmakers are quickly trying to play catch up, which will be awesome for the market place, as create more innovation. Tesla is so far ahead in the EV race though and charging infrastructure.

Guessing the same people that hate on Tesla and make the above quote don’t like technology or change either.

I am a software engineer so, as you can imagine, I love technology. I'm definitely deep on that side of the spectrum.

That said, we have to address the elephant in the room when it comes to tech updates on devices, and cars in particular. The are very much a double edged sword and we have to be mindful of that fact. OTA updates allow shipping less complete software as bugs can be fixed for cheaper since you can just "push an update" and not need dealer involvement and etc etc. Unless well managed that can lead to quality slipping... But more annoying than that you end up with features working and then not working for owners in what appears to them an almost random fashion. Tesla has had a fair bit of this.

The industry also needs to communicate clear software lifecycle information to buyers so they can get an idea of how long a vehicle manufacturer intends to support their car with updates. They also need to share this so consumers can get a real clear idea of where their car lines up with the technology "platform" the OEM is working on. As the older the car and its platform the more likely newer updates can be regressive as testing resources shift toward the newer or predominate models/platforms. The increasingly "connected" features of these cars can also end up being removed and buyers should have a clear upfront idea of when that may occur.

But from what I've experienced of technology development at BMW. They have a LONG way to go before they get this right. Probably a decade at least.

[admranger]

My biggest beef with Tesla, besides their quality control, fit and finish, lack of CarPlay interface, etc., is their refusal to allow people the right to repair their vehicles. I feel the same way about other companies that refuse to allow people the right to repair items that they own.

[kopik]

I actually love my wife's Model 3 long range. It's nimble, cool and has a round steering wheel! IMHO it's probably worth $50k. Model S is grossly overpriced. Its price should be around $75k, not $100k. The yoke is bizarre and I'm not sure what's its purpose other than to satisfy eccentric taste of the CEO. The worst however is Tesla customer service both in sales and repairs. Hard to beat that one...

[oilandgas]

I looked at the new Model S today. Tesla restyled the interior and changed the orientation of the center screen. Even with those updates, the interior still looks like a Nissan with an ipad. The 'yoke' steering wheel is completely goofy. Having every 'stalk' integrated into the wheel for lights, wipers, turn signals is annoying. I also didn't like to have to use the center touch screen for every simple function - even opening the glove compartment. For a high-tech car, I was disappointed that there is no head-up display; and I loke my sunroof. Yes, the Model S Plain can go 0-60 in 1.99 sec, but I think the inside of my M550 looks a thousand times better than a Tesla & I'm very happy with my 3.5 sec 0-60 time.

[DNYC1919]

Originally Posted by oilandgas

I looked at the new Model S today. Tesla restyled the interior and changed the orientation of the center screen. Even with those updates, the interior still looks like a Nissan with an ipad. The 'yoke' steering wheel is completely goofy. Having every 'stalk' integrated into the wheel for lights, wipers, turn signals is annoying. I also didn't like to have to use the center touch screen for every simple function - even opening the glove compartment. For a high-tech car, I was disappointed that there is no head-up display; and I loke my sunroof. Yes, the Model S Plain can go 0-60 in 1.99 sec, but I think the inside of my M550 looks a thousand times better than a Tesla & I'm very happy with my 3.5 sec 0-60 time.

I always thought Tesla had a panorama sunroof that opened, Not just some glass roof for show. That's annoying at 80k or whatever you can't have a functional sunroof that opens.

[DBV1]

Originally Posted by oilandgas

I looked at the new Model S today. Tesla restyled the interior and changed the orientation of the center screen. Even with those updates, the interior still looks like a Nissan with an ipad. The 'yoke' steering wheel is completely goofy. Having every 'stalk' integrated into the wheel for lights, wipers, turn signals is annoying. I also didn't like to have to use the center touch screen for every simple function - even opening the glove compartment. For a high-tech car, I was disappointed that there is no head-up display; and I loke my sunroof. Yes, the Model S Plain can go 0-60 in 1.99 sec, but I think the inside of my M550 looks a thousand times better than a Tesla & I'm very happy with my 3.5 sec 0-60 time.

I have had my Tesla Model S since early Dec now. This is after having numerous 5 Series in a row and still have a 18 X5 diesel. Miss the suspension on 5 and also the media interface and Carplay. Also - miss HUD.

I thought I would the hate the yoke and think it would be goofy, but now really like it. Going back to a round steering wheel is like going backwards. Even my wife likes it and our 22 old son loves it. Being able to see the drivers console is much better with the Yoke, which puts it is closer to having HUD. Love the all the controls on the Yoke too and don’t miss stalks at all. You never even look down to use them, after adapting to them. Our son picked that up instantly. Do dislike the horn position though, but rarely use the horn.

I really like the interior of the new Model S. Not even close to a Nissan. That is laughable. More Scandinavian design and minimalist/space age. Really like the big screen, but really dislike the media interface. BMW is way ahead with theirs.

Other advantages for Tesla is the huge wireless chargers that hold two phones in front and rear seats. How much money I save in gas. I drive a lot and right now saving about $160 a month (conservative estimate). Love the speed and how quiet it is too. Tons of storage. Like stating the car with my phone, entering and leaving car with phone and automatically locks. Garage automatically opens and closes and could go on and on. Also - like how it is constantly being updated with new features.

I still really like BMW, but both cars have positives and negatives. Will be curious of BMW EV’s, but dislike the huge grills they will have and the range is still dismal compared to my Model S.

[Joe-BMW33]

The moral of this story is you can not compare a Tesla model S to an M550. They are completely different cars and owner profiles. A Tesla of any variety will not produce the same driver rewards as a haul ass exhaust of an M550. But even that aside, Teslas are cheap inside.

[DBV1]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

The moral of this story is you can not compare a Tesla model S to an M550. They are completely different cars and owner profiles. A Tesla of any variety will not produce the same driver rewards as a haul ass exhaust of an M550. But even that aside, Teslas are cheap inside.

They are not cheap inside. Take a look at a refresh Model S. That is not a cheap interior. Real wood, etc. Is it the same inside as a BMW 5 - absolutely not, but it is not cheap.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by DBV1

They are not cheap inside. Take a look at a refresh Model S. That is not a cheap interior. Real wood, etc. Is it the same inside as a BMW 5 - absolutely not, but it is not cheap.

I'd like to say I will check it out, but I have zero interest. That's good they finally focused on fit and finish. Three of my close friends drive Model S's and X's and I can't tell you how boring they are inside with the plastic door cards, the balsa wood and the ipad as the only display. I have always said, if someone held a gun to my head to get a Tesla, it would be the Model S, but the way I would configure it would be in a price range where there are so many better options.

So ok, the interior may be improved, but I still stand by my comment, you can't compare an electric car that is more focused on software and data to any German ICE car.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by DBV1

They are not cheap inside. Take a look at a refresh Model S. That is not a cheap interior. Real wood, etc. Is it the same inside as a BMW 5 - absolutely not, but it is not cheap.

I haven’t had a chance to drive the new one yet, but my perception is that the model s interior tended to be more on par with the 3 series. The seats have 12 way adjustment, like a 3, while the 5’s comfort seats have 20. Massage also isn’t an option though they finally have ventilation. No sunshades etc. Not bad, decent to be good enough for most, but not quite on par with premium
German sedans in its price range.

[Al Pinã]

Tesla is still a decade or more behind in their fit & finish department. There's no excuse for a $100K car to have grossly misaligned trim pieces and panel gaps you can fit two fingers into.

It's inexcusable because even by the 70's and 80's the Germans had this sorted out in their manufacturing process. The Japanese had it perfected by the mid 90's. What's Tesla's excuse?

[oilandgas]

Originally Posted by DBV1

They are not cheap inside. Take a look at a refresh Model S. That is not a cheap interior. Real wood, etc. Is it the same inside as a BMW 5 - absolutely not, but it is not cheap.

Maybe it's a personal preference, but the new Model S just felt cheap on the inside. I literally sat in it back-to-back with my M550 and thought to myself about the M550, "this is much nicer inside)

[HerkHealer]

I really hope the new/upcoming 5 series retain the same ICE we are used to, and just add electric power for Hybrid Models.

[admranger]

I think the Mercedes EQS is the electric car to get right now. We'll have to see what the new beaver faced BMWs electrics bring.

[eliphil]

I am really put off by the lack of quality in Tesla's and not being able to speak w someone when there is an issue. I also felt like I was driving a bumper car from the rides only faster......... No torque, no growl, just utter silence

[DBV1]

Originally Posted by Gautam

I haven’t had a chance to drive the new one yet, but my perception is that the model s interior tended to be more on par with the 3 series. The seats have 12 way adjustment, like a 3, while the 5’s comfort seats have 20. Massage also isn’t an option though they finally have ventilation. No sunshades etc. Not bad, decent to be good enough for most, but not quite on par with premium
German sedans in its price range.

I think that is a very fair assessment and agree with you. The interior of a Model S is more on par with a BMW 3. Have not used the ventilated seats yet, but heard they work really well. I still liken it to more of Scandinavian feel. Luckily on mine, I did not have any misalignments or other quality control issues I have read about it.

I still love BMW and the 5 Series. Just was ready for a change, but can change back quickly. . I do wish BMW’s EV’s and other newer models were not going to that large grill. Really dislike that, but maybe it grows on you.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

I really hope the new/upcoming 5 series retain the same ICE we are used to, and just add electric power for Hybrid Models.

Based on BMW history, it will detune the ICE. The best solution though is the 545e (or its successor).

[Warp Ten]

Originally Posted by admranger

I think the Mercedes EQS is the electric car to get right now. We'll have to see what the new beaver faced BMWs electrics bring.

You mean the 4 series and others that look like this? --Bob

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Based on BMW history, it will detune the ICE. The best solution though is the 545e (or its successor).

What do you meant by "detune"?

I'm hoping for all ICE options with the 6 and 8 cyl., but the 545e is intriguing to me.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Based on BMW history, it will detune the ICE. The best solution though is the 545e (or its successor).

I hope not. I hope they keep the M550 at 523 HP and just add the EV boost to it, but I guess we have to wait and see. Maybe this summer we should know.
If they do that, the 0-60 will be low 3's.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by NGT2

What do you meant by "detune"?

I'm hoping for all ICE options with the 6 and 8 cyl., but the 545e is intriguing to me.

Reduce the HP. On the 530e they detuned the ICE from 250 HP to 184 HP with the difference being the electric motor. They did the same thing with the X5 phev and the 3 series PHEV.

Even the 545e is detuned but at least that is from a straight six engine. But on top of every other offense, they won't sell the 545e in the USA.