[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Pictor

No doubt BMW has lost sales to Tesla. The question is is this meaningful to be noticeable in the sales figures. The basis of the thread is to ask the question of why is YoY sales down for the 5 down. I don't believe Tesla has had measurable impact -- yet. The exception might be in cities like L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, and other coastal cities. However, SUV's have had a measurable impact across sedans in the market. Now the story does try and draw some connections to BMW sales along with a few anecdotes about BMW loyalty.

Trading in a car of one brand for another doesn't mean that the first brand lost a sale. Here's a personal example, when I was in my 20's, I traded in a used BMW for a new Nissan which I needed for a long commute to a new job. There was no way I could have afforded a new BMW at that point in my life and I wanted something better in the snow (before xDrive was a thing). Did BMW lose a sale to Nissan because I decided to trade in a used BMW for a new Nissan?

Yes, in that scenario BMW did lose a sale. It may not have been a se they cared about at the time (outside of their target market) but it was a lost sale nonetheless. All businesses want repeat customers because those customers are the most profitable for any business.

Tesla is impacting BMW and other luxury brands and will only continue to do so unless BMW and others find a way to modernize and do it sooner than later. Tesla is quickly becoming the brand people want to be seen in and simultaneously aligning themselves with the sustainability culture that younger buyers care a lot about. Tesla hasn’t yet caught up with the interior fit and finish of brands like BMW, but they have leapfrogged them in the technology and performance categories (at least to the extent that matters to the bread and buyer buyers who drive the vehicles on public roads).

I think BMW is on the right path focusing on a common platform that can be flipped from ICE to PHEV to BEV depending on regional and market realities. But they need to get the technology right...

[scoale]

Thanks for responses. Understand SUVs are on trend, and have been now for several years. In terms of YOY sales decline, it may just be (as a previous poster mentioned) lack of new news several years into this chassis.

I also wonder, however, if fewer people are interested in a "sporty" sedan. I get the popularity of SUVs, particularly for families, and know the continued rise of SUVs bode poorly for sedans - but it's sad to think of a future without a 5 series and/or 3 series.

[ted99]

I just traded my 2018 X5 40e for a 530e. While I loved the form factor of the X5 (higher seating position, higher ground clearance, more flexibility for load carrying), I hated the ride. For some reason, BMW (and others) give stiffer springs to their SUV's, despite them never going off-road or carrying heavy loads. My ideal vehicle would be the SUV form factor with a sedan-like ride. For those few needing the load carrying capacity, add an option for stiffer suspension. The 2021 X5 is supposed to have 2-axle air suspension and this might make a difference. I test drove the Audi e-Tron several times and it has 2-axle air suspension that gives it a much more sedan-like ride. In Houston, our intersections frequently have 12" of water during heavy rain and poor drainage, so a higher ground clearance is useful.

I got great deals on my two 2020 530e sedans because sedans are not hot sellers. I "might" pay for that when trade-in time comes in 3-4 yrs. I say "might" because I wonder if sedans will come back into favor. I pretty much discount high gasoline prices for that, as I don't think high prices are coming back any time soon. The fear around Houston is for another Bust due to less than $50 oil prices. What I wonder about is the rise of the Millenial generation. Baby boomers killed the station wagon as a reaction to being ferried around in one as children--"their mom's car". Gen X'ers killed the minivan and sedan with SUV's. The Millenial generation is beginning to buy cars. Will they rebel against their parents SUV's and go back to sedans--especially with the SUV rap as "bad for the planet"? Does history repeat itself and is this the way it will repeat?

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by ted99

I just traded my 2018 X5 40e for a 530e. While I loved the form factor of the X5 (higher seating position, higher ground clearance, more flexibility for load carrying), I hated the ride. For some reason, BMW (and others) give stiffer springs to their SUV's, despite them never going off-road or carrying heavy loads. My ideal vehicle would be the SUV form factor with a sedan-like ride.

Interesting perspective. The sedan like ride in an SUV is exactly why my wife keeps going back to the X5 ever since the E53. There are suspension options even with the E70 and F15 that greatly impact ride characteristics. In fact I think each generation since the E53 has three configurations if not more. Wheel size also has a big role with ride. On a side note, stiff springs are terrible for off-roading since you want articulation of the axels.

Now getting to the ride of the 5'er, I feel like the standard suspension on some of the 5'ers tend to be too soft and geared to the US (and China?) market. Even with the M550i, I would like a little firmer suspension but it's generally okay for daily driving. So suspension tuning is somewhat personal and based on preferences. BMW does offer options but the impact on ride isn't always well conveyed and dealers don't always have all the suspension combinations (even including wheel and seat combinations) of each model for people to try before they buy.

[Pierre Louis]

For those of us with neck problems, sitting high up in an SUV that is not as heavy as a Suburban may cause "head toss" creating excruciating pain. I know.

What makes it worse is many vehicles, including large heavy ones, don't seem to take mind of drivers tall enough to be over 6 feet by making entrance height suitable only for short torso drivers.

[AddyDaddy]

For me, now that SUV's perform as well as sports cars, you don't have as much a need for sedans I think as before. 10yrs ago SUV's weren't what Merc and BMW have out. X6M or X5M will be next car, even though the regular new engine is 523 hp, think about that. 10 yrs ago 523hp was crazy no matter the application and now it's standard on the V8's.