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      10-04-2019, 06:58 PM   #45
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I like how this thread about increasing loan terms has turned into a high brow financial discussion. The folks running up this average are lucky to have a bank account, much less contemplating the spread on low interest financing.
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      10-04-2019, 08:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
If they wouldn't offer 7+ year loans....I bet car prices would go down. Lots of people out there have no money sense at all.....as long as they can afford the payment, they don't care what the total cost is.
Car salespeople at the mass market marque dealers around here all negotiate based on the payment amount, not the purchase price. How much can you afford to pay per month? For an extra $5.00/month, you can have these nicer floor mats. The length of the loan is just another number to play with to hit the target payment, and let's face it many Americans can't multiply by 12 to realize that 84 months is a real long time to pay for something that isn't a house.

When I was negotiating my DW's new car back in June, the sales guy started to work up his 4-square based on payment. I told him that I am bringing my own financing, and all numbers will be in purchase price and not monthly payments. Between shutting down his 4-square shell game with no trade-in and making him negotiate on price and not payments, we really threw him off his game.....
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      10-04-2019, 08:56 PM   #47
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two years ago I was negotiating with the dealer to purchase wife's X3 35 and I had fleet discount voucher. Dealer tried to first push for lease and then I told him purchase only. Then he said this is how much is mnthly pmt ... I said don't care, what is the purchase price. Then he said with trade-in it is xyz ... but there was no trade-in. Then he mixed in fleet discount. On and on and on ... then I took the paper and wrote the numbers and told him sorry bud I have elec eng degree we can play with numbers til the cows come home ... deal or no deal got to go ... got the deal and loan through PNC for 36m

I can see how many folks fall in the trap that don't understand the difference of appreciating vs depreciating asset and exponential functions
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      10-04-2019, 09:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
I like how this thread about increasing loan terms has turned into a high brow financial discussion.
These threads always become lively discussions because people like to chime in with how smart they are financially. The thing is, different people have different definitions of “smart financially”, which makes the threads entertaining.
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      10-04-2019, 09:09 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
These threads always become lively discussions because people like to chime in with how smart they are financially. The thing is, different people have different definitions of “smart financially”, which makes the threads entertaining.
Yes, and half the people in the "get a low rate car loan and invest the money" camp don't actually do it, but it justifies their borrowing and makes them look like a genius on the internet.
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      10-04-2019, 10:16 PM   #50
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i did a 66 month Financing through a BMW dealer to buy my 1M @ 3% interest rate in 2014. It was my dream car and i wanted it. I'm not the type of person who was ever going to sell it (my 1M will never be for sale again) and for me it was worth it.

do i think long financing plans are a good idea? probably not. But sometimes people like who would like their monthly burden to be less do it to make it more affordable. In Europe 72 month financing deals are a common practice.

Would i go back in time and do the same thing again if had to? 10000% yes!!!
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      10-05-2019, 12:50 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Yes, and half the people in the "get a low rate car loan and invest the money" camp don't actually do it, but it justifies their borrowing and makes them look like a genius on the internet.
It’s the internet. Half the “I pay cash and no debt" people are stressing they’re going to go over their allotted lease miles
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      10-05-2019, 01:43 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ View Post
It’s the internet. Half the “I pay cash and no debt" people are stressing they’re going to go over their allotted lease miles
Also the financial 'guru' on this thread is hilarious. I'm sure half of the recommended things on here aren't even being followed by the ones recommending it lol.
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      10-05-2019, 09:05 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ View Post
It’s the internet. Half the “I pay cash and no debt" people are stressing they’re going to go over their allotted lease miles
Also the financial 'guru' on this thread is hilarious. I'm sure half of the recommended things on here aren't even being followed by the ones recommending it lol.
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      10-05-2019, 09:20 AM   #54
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Best method is the only finance half - if you don't have half upfront, don't buy. 48month is usually a good term. Never buy new unless you like to watch money burn...lol
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      10-05-2019, 02:29 PM   #55
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Best method is the only finance half - if you don't have half upfront, don't buy. 48month is usually a good term. Never buy new unless you like to watch money burn...lol
And this gets back to my original reply in this thread. Why not buy new if you hold on to the car for a long while? It's ridiculous to paint with such a broad brush.

I've never traded in any car I've owned. I've only sold off one car to a car buying service because having that car around with at the time two cars already was not prudent. The car buying service offered me more than what I would have gotten if I traded it in. That car I happened to buy used and felt comfortable about it because I was able to talk to the original owner. That car I owned for 16 years before selling it. My daily beater at the time I owned for 8 years until it was done in by a deer. I would have continued to drive that thing till I ran it into the ground. My previous car I drove till it blew a head gasket at around 170,000 miles and owning it for 11 years. My two bikes I currently own are 15 and 10 years old respectively. My 135i is going on 6 years and I have no intention of doing anything with it. Again all these vehicles were purchased new with the exception of the one used car I sold to a car buying service.

Could I have maximized my money more by buying used? Sure. But I certainly didn't piss away money that you're implying by buying new.
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      10-05-2019, 03:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
And this gets back to my original reply in this thread. Why not buy new if you hold on to the car for a long while? It's ridiculous to paint with such a broad brush.

I've never traded in any car I've owned. I've only sold off one car to a car buying service because having that car around with at the time two cars already was not prudent. The car buying service offered me more than what I would have gotten if I traded it in. That car I happened to buy used and felt comfortable about it because I was able to talk to the original owner. That car I owned for 16 years before selling it. My daily beater at the time I owned for 8 years until it was done in by a deer. I would have continued to drive that thing till I ran it into the ground. My previous car I drove till it blew a head gasket at around 170,000 miles and owning it for 11 years. My two bikes I currently own are 15 and 10 years old respectively. My 135i is going on 6 years and I have no intention of doing anything with it. Again all these vehicles were purchased new with the exception of the one used car I sold to a car buying service.

Could I have maximized my money more by buying used? Sure. But I certainly didn't piss away money that you're implying by buying new.
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
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      10-05-2019, 07:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
Chances of finding the exact car I want with only 5000 miles is pretty slim to nil for one. This car would be either a demonstrator or I would question why someone would turn a car back in which is for all intents and purposes barely broken in. Although based on a few posts which have appeared on here about owners wanting to get out of a car that isn't even a year old, I guess it's becoming more common.

I have my reasons as to why I buy new. I do well for myself. I don't need to justify my purchases to anyone on the Internet. As I said, I know I'm not maximizing dollars spent on a car by not going used. But I'm certainly not pissing away money as you and others imply. Most of my cars have been econoboxes. The 135i is the first time I "treated" myself to something way beyond just basic transportation. I did finance all of my vehicles. Some I didn't put any down payment on the vehicle. Others I did. I put down a substantial down payment on the 135i. I've also taken out loan terms on all the cars at 5 years. I've paid all of them off well beyond reaching the loan term. I did this to give myself some flexibility if I needed it for monthly expenses. All the vehicles were financed at 1.49% fixed.

You've said it in your quoting of my first reply in this thread that I'm a rarity. There's more of people such as me out there than you think. I'm just rebutting the tired assumption that anyone who buys new is burning money as the assumption is I'm living beyond my means, I'm going to flip the car quickly, I'll be falling into the perpetual cycle of rolling over negative equity, etc, etc. None of that applies to me.
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      10-05-2019, 11:11 PM   #58
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lols I feel bad for the guy who's stuck with a 69 month loan.
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      10-06-2019, 12:21 AM   #59
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Life is short. If it makes you happy go for it. Consequence be damned. If you're not suffering because of it or putting your family at risk, why not?

I see people spending $300-$500 a month on wireless phone service, $200+ on lawn care, $2000+ on purses, $10K+ on watches, $1000 a month on daycare per child!

I've seen 2 dead cousins died millionaires and none of them have managed to take any money with them. If everyone is following strict financial guideline, most people should be driving a 10 year old Camry and who would want that?
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      10-06-2019, 01:56 AM   #60
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Life is short. If it makes you happy go for it. Consequence be damned. If you're not suffering because of it or putting your family at risk, why not?

I see people spending $300-$500 a month on wireless phone service, $200+ on lawn care, $2000+ on purses, $10K+ on watches, $1000 a month on daycare per child!

I've seen 2 dead cousins died millionaires and none of them have managed to take any money with them. If everyone is following strict financial guideline, most people should be driving a 10 year old Camry and who would want that?

The flaw in your logic is assuming it’s a “this v. That” issue. It’s not! It’s an issue that knows no boundaries. Every industry from automotive, to cell phone companies, to lawn care companies, to textile companies have a predatory element to it that has deluded us all and we are ok with because....uh...life is short and we’re gonna die. Give me a break. It’s not about money per se, it’s about freedom. We are all ok with being prisoners of this exploitative social construct. Tell me how an M6 can sell for $160k new but get “damaged” during shipment and only be worth $2500 in scrap metal? Refer to the Canada BMW Lot thread. You have guys trading in M4s that are only 18 months old because they don’t have the latest updates headlights. That’s a sickness. I’m guilty of it. You are too.

Last edited by 48Laws; 10-06-2019 at 02:09 AM..
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      10-06-2019, 01:57 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
You need to do the math and figure out if the depreciation outweighs the extra finance cost and maintenance on a used car. Loan rates are typically higher on a used car so there’s a higher finance cost over the life of the loan and potentially higher repair and maintenance on something like a lease return with 30k miles. I drive my cars relatively little (sub 10k) per year so the warranty coverage and lower maintenance costs combined with special dealer finance rates can mean an overall lower cost of ownership in the typical timeframe most hold onto a vehicle.
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      10-06-2019, 02:56 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
The flaw in your logic is assuming it’s a “this v. That” issue. It’s not! It’s an issue that knows no boundaries. Every industry from automotive, to cell phone companies, to lawn care companies, to textile companies have a predatory element to it that has deluded us all and we are ok with because....uh...life is short and we’re gonna die. Give me a break. It’s not about money per se, it’s about freedom. We are all ok with being prisoners of this exploitative social construct. Tell me how an M6 can sell for $160k new but get “damaged” during shipment and only be worth $2500 in scrap metal? Refer to the Canada BMW Lot thread. You have guys trading in M4s that are only 18 months old because they don’t have the latest updates headlights. That’s a sickness. I’m guilty of it. You are too.
I think we are suffering from first world problem. Our basic needs and wants are already met x2 over. Even if were to suffer a financial set back which would cause us to lose our precious BMWs, it wouldn't matter that much. Many people will still have other assets. You may have to "suffer" driving a Toyota for a while or ask grandma to watch the kids, have dandelions on the front lawn -- oh what will the neighbors think.
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      10-06-2019, 10:03 AM   #63
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...have dandelions on the front lawn -- oh what will the neighbors think.
My elderly neighbors are already asking me for the phone number of our lawn care company! After years of cobbling together free/junk lawn tractors to mow our bedrock minefield back yard, we broke down (well, our last lawn tractor did) and hired a local lawn guy who is just starting out. His hourly rate is less than half of what I make, and I look at the deal as supporting a local business. In the long run, it comes out cheaper to pay the lawn guy than it would be to finance a commercial rock^H^H^H lawnmower and do it myself.....
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      10-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #64
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That's a nice story, but you're the outlier, by far. I shake my head at Dodge Journeys with paper plates and wonder what the rate and term are. The American auto makers are particularly bad - anyone above a 500 score can drive away with an Impala financed for 80 months at 22%.
LOL. Is that any worse than someone leasing a car they couldn't afford to buy?
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      10-06-2019, 10:27 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Even if you plan on keeping the car 50 years, is there really a difference between a brand new car and the same car with 5,000 miles, for example? It's the same car, without thousands/tens of thousands of near instant depreciation. Now, if you have a certain net worth, this conversation is irrelevant. But if you have a net worth of under 1 mil, it really doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, finance or cash.
I completely disagree with this argument. First off net worth has nothing to do with the ability to afford buying a car, regardless if it is new or used. Affordability come from useable income one can afford to outlay for his transportation needs. If it were true that it doesn't make financial sense to buy a new car, then almost anyone would be in financial ruin. The financial impact of purchasing a car (if not bought as a toy), comes down simply to how much per-mile the car costs the owner to drive, which is calculated using a formula for total cost of ownership, or Total Lifecycle Cost (basically purchase price, fuel, maintenance, and repair). The longer the car is owned the cost of initial purchase is amortized over a longer prior of time and mileage. Buying used just means the car has theoretically, an overall shorter life span for the person who bought it used. It's nowhere near 50 years.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 10-06-2019 at 03:01 PM..
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      10-06-2019, 10:31 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I think we are suffering from first world problem. Our basic needs and wants are already met x2 over. Even if were to suffer a financial set back which would cause us to lose our precious BMWs, it wouldn't matter that much. Many people will still have other assets. You may have to "suffer" driving a Toyota for a while or ask grandma to watch the kids, have dandelions on the front lawn -- oh what will the neighbors think.
The issue I’m discussing is not with a specific brand. Toyota also has 69 month loans, I imagine. . And there is no “1st World” when these same cars have parts and are assembled in “3rd World” countries. The system is one world. We exploit cheap labor in other countries then we fleece our own people in our country when we sell it beyond its intrinsic value. Once we stop giving value to these things, we will see a fundamental shift. You’ll laugh at the idea of a “rare” M2 CS with a $20k markup because you’ll know it’s not rare, your fun is regulated by strict road laws, and it TOO will be worth a fraction of what it sold for. If we all abandon the need for a new car every 2-3 years because of individual insecurities, we gain our power back, avoid debt. And working at your awful job will no longer be an obligation because you have a lower need to pay down chit you don’t need. You’ll have more time to travel, family, health, and creative explorations we put aside because we have an M4 payment due every 28 days.
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