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      01-17-2020, 09:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
I thought some were doing only first 6 month (though to drive like grandma for 6 month might be difficult)
Industry is moving to 6 months policy. They raise your premium more often.
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      01-17-2020, 09:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SherM4n View Post
Are you prepared to obey the speed limit at all times, no matter what traffic is doing?
That was definitely a good data point.
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      01-17-2020, 09:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Not a chance... is such an invasion! Let alone an app on my phone, hahaha, ice cube chance in hell, lol

Have you stopped to think for a second that the data they collect as to your location, time spent there and more, doesn't have more value than to measure just your driving habits?

Don't worry though, Apple and Google will be selling the vehicle data to insurance companies soon without your permission, or the car manufacturers will too.
That is exactly why Tesla got into insurance. They already have the data. A lot of it.
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      01-17-2020, 12:51 PM   #26
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I would not use the app or plug-in service, regardless of the discount offered.
Dealing with insurance companies on a regular basis, I firmly believe that they will use the data against their policyholders.
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      01-17-2020, 01:18 PM   #27
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What’s the worst that could happen??


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      01-17-2020, 02:16 PM   #28
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It's the beginning of the end; at some point in the future, you'll participate and be forced to drive like a gramma in a Yugo on the way to church or your insurance rates will be so high you can't afford them. .....maybe I'm wrong. ;-)

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      01-17-2020, 04:50 PM   #29
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Did you take the offer?
Still looking into the details and whats needed on our ended. We literally just switched yesterday. Im thinking about it though.
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      01-18-2020, 07:39 PM   #30
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Fact of the matter is "No Good" for the consumer would come from it. Cheaper rate? Yeah, right up until you have a problem, and everything gets microscoped! Like Instant Replay in Sports now. Any analytic after the event is easier than living through it. There is no way you'll benefit, certainly not having the benefit of doubt, or he said/ she said... You speed, reactions, location, habits will all come to play. They'll be no limit on how they can use it to protect themselves, not you!

Why didn't you apply the brake earlier? Did you have a phone in the vehicle? You exhibited a propensity to accelerate quickly from a stop (light or other control devices). Do you always slow down so abruptly? Etc., Etc ...

What next, cameras in the car hoooled up to the module too?

Insane...! Just "NO"... Lol
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      01-19-2020, 02:20 PM   #31
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This is all assuming said insurance company is being straight forward about offering you a discount. Unless you have actual access to the calculation criteria on how they come up with your "pre-discounted" rate, you're just taking their word for it about them giving you a discount. The discount could be already factored in due to changes in the risk dynamics of your geographical area, your car itself, and similar people of your profile.
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      01-19-2020, 03:03 PM   #32
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I would be worried that they would see that I got over the speed limit on a routine basis (even if it's 5mph), and I like to play around on the backroads and test out different tunes on my car (hard acceleration).

All they need to know is that after 25 years of driving....I have never been in an accident. I don't need to give them anything more.....
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      01-19-2020, 07:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
I would be worried that they would see that I got over the speed limit on a routine basis (even if it's 5mph), and I like to play around on the backroads and test out different tunes on my car (hard acceleration).
I see you are a man of culture as well.
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      01-20-2020, 05:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by xander_g View Post
I would not use the app or plug-in service, regardless of the discount offered.
Dealing with insurance companies on a regular basis, I firmly believe that they will use the data against their policyholders.
I'm arriving at that conclusion.
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      01-20-2020, 05:34 PM   #35
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Hard pass. Although before I changed insurance the last time, briefly thought about getting one and schedule a track day. Just to see what they say.
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      01-20-2020, 05:51 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Hard pass. Although before I changed insurance the last time, briefly thought about getting one and schedule a track day. Just to see what they say.
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      01-20-2020, 06:18 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Hard pass. Although before I changed insurance the last time, briefly thought about getting one and schedule a track day. Just to see what they say.
That’s pretty funny. Makes me think of that Pepsi commercial when Jeff Gordon is in disguise and takes a test drive. Salesman goes nuts. Somehow I doubt the insurance company has a sense of humor.
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      01-20-2020, 07:15 PM   #38
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It’s already TOO LATE.

If you buy any GM vehicle you give consent for them to track your vehicle’s telemetry by activating ON-STAR. And it’s not something you can clearly opt out, since the sales drones activate all that sh*t for you before you even drive it off the lot.

The only way to opt out is physically calling GM through ON-STAR and cancel the service, and sit through 35 minutes of them trying to keep you subscribed so they can sell your telemetry and driving data to insurance companies. It’s a practice that more car makers are likely to adapt, if they haven’t already done so. Since every “connected” car has the capability to send telemetry to the mothership, I’d be surprised if no other car manufacturers capture all your driving data for one reason or another.

You just don’t hear about it because they’re not all as clumsy as GM. As soon as I started getting “your average speed is higher this month than last” emails from them I called and said eff you guys. Cancel EVERYTHING that is connecting me to your servers or I call a lawyer.

I suspect they’re still collecting data, but just not informing me about it.
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      01-20-2020, 07:21 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
It’s already TOO LATE.

If you buy any GM vehicle you give consent for them to track your vehicle’s telemetry by activating ON-STAR. And it’s not something you can clearly opt out, since the sales drones activate all that sh*t for you before you even drive it off the lot.

The only way to opt out is physically calling GM through ON-STAR and cancel the service, and sit through 35 minutes of them trying to keep you subscribed so they can sell your telemetry and driving data to insurance companies. It’s a practice that more car makers are likely to adapt, if they haven’t already done so. Since every “connected” car has the capability to send telemetry to the mothership, I’d be surprised if no other car manufacturers capture all your driving data for one reason or another.

You just don’t hear about it because they’re not all as clumsy as GM. As soon as I started getting “your average speed is higher this month than last” emails from them I called and said eff you guys. Cancel EVERYTHING that is connecting me to your servers or I call a lawyer.

I suspect they’re still collecting data, but just not informing me about it.
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      01-21-2020, 10:50 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
It’s already TOO LATE.

If you buy any GM vehicle you give consent for them to track your vehicle’s telemetry by activating ON-STAR. And it’s not something you can clearly opt out, since the sales drones activate all that sh*t for you before you even drive it off the lot.

The only way to opt out is physically calling GM through ON-STAR and cancel the service, and sit through 35 minutes of them trying to keep you subscribed so they can sell your telemetry and driving data to insurance companies. It’s a practice that more car makers are likely to adapt, if they haven’t already done so. Since every “connected” car has the capability to send telemetry to the mothership, I’d be surprised if no other car manufacturers capture all your driving data for one reason or another.

You just don’t hear about it because they’re not all as clumsy as GM. As soon as I started getting “your average speed is higher this month than last” emails from them I called and said eff you guys. Cancel EVERYTHING that is connecting me to your servers or I call a lawyer.

I suspect they’re still collecting data, but just not informing me about it.
I see you own a pretty old BMW.
All modern BMWs are already connected to the mothership. They say that's necessary for their app to work (I can locate my car and lock/unlock, among other things, from anywhere in the world). As an incentive for me to accept that, they update the maps over the air.
But that doesn't mean they are allowed to sell your data to insurance companies. If insurance had that, they wouldn't waste money developing an app.
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      01-21-2020, 11:30 AM   #41
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Some companies are collecting data on us, even when they don't have a specific need to at the moment. They see the potential value in it and are willing to implement the infrastructure to collect and store it for future use, or sale. Personally, I find it a major invasion of privacy. I'm sure I've signed plenty of TOSs without reading them thoroughly and gave consent...all for the "convenience" or "service" that product provided me. Ever download an app and it asks for permission to access your phones mic and camera, even when the use of that app does not require those components of your device? I had one ask for those and it specifically included access to the photo gallery on my phone...the app had zero to do with photos. Why do they want to see my photos? How about for tracking purposes? Photos include time, date and GPS coordinates and with face recognition software, a photo could be used to identify individuals in specific places and at specific times...no, thank you.
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      01-21-2020, 11:34 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
I see you own a pretty old BMW.
All modern BMWs are already connected to the mothership. They say that's necessary for their app to work (I can locate my car and lock/unlock, among other things, from anywhere in the world). As an incentive for me to accept that, they update the maps over the air.
But that doesn't mean they are allowed to sell your data to insurance companies. If insurance had that, they wouldn't waste money developing an app.
I love how most people just accept their personal liberties being violated as long as they get to be lazy and don't have to use a key to unlock their doors.

I own 2 modern Chevys. Both of them send full telemetry to GM, and GM is in turn free to sell to insurance companies that opt-in to monitor my driving. The amount of data they collect is insane. They have the percentage of time my foot is on the gas, how hard I accelerate, how OFTEN I accelerate hard, how fast I drive and WHERE TO I drive.

All. Of. It. They're not shy about letting you know either, as I used to get a monthly "report" along with notes about how insurance companies can give me a discount based on the information they report to them*.

It is already too late. GM's ON-STAR program implementation is poor enough, like the rest of their implementation on cars, that you KNOW they're collecting and sharing. They're counting on the vast majority of buyers NOT opting out of sharing information, since both cars came with ON-STAR already activated and collecting info the second I rolled off the lot.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of car manufacturers with connected driving capabilities already gather said data, it'd be difficult to fathom GM being at the forefront of ANYTHING. The question is, do they let YOU know about it, and what do they actually do with the data.

As for insurance company needing to "develop" an app for it...You pointed out, I drive a 14 year old car. As I switch between my Z4 M, which lives completely off the grid, to my wife's 335D, which has first gen Connected Drive capabilities, to my Corvette which is capable of communicating with the mothership at all times, and to the Bolt which takes it even a step further as some levels of ON-STAR can not be fully disabled without disabling the car (the Bolt reminds me every time I start it that it's connected to ON-STAR services), it is in THEIR best interest to have a way to universally track your driving habits and activities. Since the ONLY constant between all 4 cars that I drive semi-regularly is the one device that is with me at all times, WHY wouldn't an insurance company want to develop an app that can give them the big data they want without having to pay a car company/manufacturer for the information for?

* With ON-STAR you do have to opt-in to participate for the insurance discount. But they're fully capable and willing to share EVERYTHING as soon as you opt-in. And the amount of data they do collect is insane, and you're automatically opted in to ON-STAR the second you sign the purchase contract.
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      01-21-2020, 11:38 AM   #43
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Just say no and send them your 3rd gear pull
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      01-21-2020, 11:52 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I love how most people just accept their personal liberties being violated as long as they get to be lazy and don't have to use a key to unlock their doors.

I own 2 modern Chevys. Both of them send full telemetry to GM, and GM is in turn free to sell to insurance companies that opt-in to monitor my driving. The amount of data they collect is insane. They have the percentage of time my foot is on the gas, how hard I accelerate, how OFTEN I accelerate hard, how fast I drive and WHERE TO I drive.

All. Of. It. They're not shy about letting you know either, as I used to get a monthly "report" along with notes about how insurance companies can give me a discount based on the information they report to them*.

It is already too late. GM's ON-STAR program implementation is poor enough, like the rest of their implementation on cars, that you KNOW they're collecting and sharing. They're counting on the vast majority of buyers NOT opting out of sharing information, since both cars came with ON-STAR already activated and collecting info the second I rolled off the lot.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of car manufacturers with connected driving capabilities already gather said data, it'd be difficult to fathom GM being at the forefront of ANYTHING. The question is, do they let YOU know about it, and what do they actually do with the data.

As for insurance company needing to "develop" an app for it...You pointed out, I drive a 14 year old car. As I switch between my Z4 M, which lives completely off the grid, to my wife's 335D, which has first gen Connected Drive capabilities, to my Corvette which is capable of communicating with the mothership at all times, and to the Bolt which takes it even a step further as some levels of ON-STAR can not be fully disabled without disabling the car (the Bolt reminds me every time I start it that it's connected to ON-STAR services), it is in THEIR best interest to have a way to universally track your driving habits and activities. Since the ONLY constant between all 4 cars that I drive semi-regularly is the one device that is with me at all times, WHY wouldn't an insurance company want to develop an app that can give them the big data they want without having to pay a car company/manufacturer for the information for?

* With ON-STAR you do have to opt-in to participate for the insurance discount. But they're fully capable and willing to share EVERYTHING as soon as you opt-in. And the amount of data they do collect is insane, and you're automatically opted in to ON-STAR the second you sign the purchase contract.
Nobody is denying that car manufacturers collect data from your car. They do that mostly to protect themselves, in case of litigation. Prime example of that is Tesla.
This thread is on insurance companies having access to your driving habits, not what ONSTAR or any other such system collect.
So, if insurance companies have their own apps, they don't need to buy data from car manufacturers. You already pointed out that the manufacturer's data is unreliable (as you move from car to car).

So, back to the insurance company's app...
What if I have 2 phones? How do insurances know I'm not driving as opposed to just left my app on the desk while I use the other phone?
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