[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Brucelinc

It doesn't take much to get it going. The original poster gets a Racechip and asks a simple question. Then all hell breaks loose. LOL

[Boosted_8]

Racechip is set and forget. Jb4 needs effort to optimise. Choose which one you want based on your goals. PS: I would not run more than 3lbs on pump 93 in an LCI anyway

[Brucelinc]

Originally Posted by Boosted_8

Racechip is set and forget. Jb4 needs effort to optimise. Choose which one you want based on your goals. PS: I would not run more than 3lbs on pump 93 in an LCI anyway

Good useful post and advice!

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Boosted_8

Racechip is set and forget. Jb4 needs effort to optimise. Choose which one you want based on your goals. PS: I would not run more than 3lbs on pump 93 in an LCI anyway

This is retarded

If you're only going after the same level of boost as racechip, jb4 is equally "set and forget" (use map 1)

The difference being, jb4 allows for more headroom in the future


Also if you're concerned about running into ignition /knock limits, racechip is still a terrible idea because again, it has no idea when your engine is running into issues because it isn't hooked up to the dme to "see" any of these variables.

The only argument for using race chip is that it is slightly cheaper and installation is mildly easier due to the fact you DON'T have to feed the obd2 cable. While this is "a reason". It is a pretty terrible reason.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Kriz2fer

Did you watch the video I posted?

I've used both systems before and I've been messing with engines for over 15 years

You've not addressed (nor has anyone else, and they can't) the fundamental points I've raised

-both systems do the EXACT same thing (they unreport actual boost to the dme to trick the dme into keeping the wastegate closed for longer, making more boost)
-racechip does not monitor engine parameters beyond what it can see (it can only see boost pre throttle and boost/iat post throttle)
-jb4 can "see", boost pre throttle, boost/iat post throttle, engine oil temperature, ignition timing, engine load, dme boost target, engine rpm, pedal position throttle position, fuel trims, wastegate duty cycle, fuel pressure in the hpfp, afr, coolant temperature, transmission temperature, which gear you're in, etc
-if you don't want to "tweak anything" jb4 map 1/2 does the exact same thing as racechip MAX setting but it includes more safety measures + logging capabilities
-racechip despite using the same exact method (underreporting/lying to the dme to achieve higher boost) cannot achieve what the jb4 can in terms of additive boost precisely because it doesn't have these safety /protection /customizability features
-racechip does achieve more boost and more power, I'm not disputing this, I'm saying it does far less than jb4 in a far less robust /safe way, in a package that is not materially simpler or cheaper (even a novice can install the jb4 and last I checked racechip black and jb4 are like only 10-20% different in price ?)
-dyno figures are easily manipulated (this is the reason behind how every manufacturer of intake /exhausts can post amazing gains that are never achieved by buyers in the real world)
-at the end of the day if you have two cars with two piggy back boost controllers (that's what jb4 and racechip are, they're not "tunes" given they're so simple and unidimensional) both operating with the same additive boost in the same conditions, both are going to perform equally, the reason to orchard one (jb4) vs the other (racechip) is that the jb4 has more safety / functionality / logging / capabilities to go farther than racechip.

People can get whatever they want, it's a free country, but people should be properly informed about their purchases. This isn't about Amy likes these sets of wheels more than Bob because this is predominantly subjective aesthetic choice with little objective differences between the products... . Racechip v JB4 is fundamentally a comparison between performance products where comparisons should be largely based on objective measures.

Racechip does have some advantages to the jb4 but I for one can't imagine they would be material enough to convince anyone to go for it over a jb4.

Cost is where racechip wins (its like 200 usd cheaper?)
Ease of installation (you have one or two less cables to plug in, neither of which are particularly hard to do)

... If you think these two advantages is worth going for the objectively inferior product then ok I got nothing to say, you do you buddy

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

I've used both systems before and I've been messing with engines for over 15 years

You've not addressed (nor has anyone else, and they can't) the fundamental points I've raised

-both systems do the EXACT same thing (they unreport actual boost to the dme to trick the dme into keeping the wastegate closed for longer, making more boost)
-racechip does not monitor engine parameters beyond what it can see (it can only see boost pre throttle and boost/iat post throttle)
-jb4 can "see", boost pre throttle, boost/iat post throttle, engine oil temperature, ignition timing, engine load, dme boost target, engine rpm, pedal position throttle position, fuel trims, wastegate duty cycle, fuel pressure in the hpfp, afr, coolant temperature, transmission temperature, which gear you're in, etc
-if you don't want to "tweak anything" jb4 map 1/2 does the exact same thing as racechip MAX setting but it includes more safety measures + logging capabilities
-racechip despite using the same exact method (underreporting/lying to the dme to achieve higher boost) cannot achieve what the jb4 can in terms of additive boost precisely because it doesn't have these safety /protection /customizability features
-racechip does achieve more boost and more power, I'm not disputing this, I'm saying it does far less than jb4 in a far less robust /safe way, in a package that is not materially simpler or cheaper (even a novice can install the jb4 and last I checked racechip black and jb4 are like only 10-20% different in price ?)
-dyno figures are easily manipulated (this is the reason behind how every manufacturer of intake /exhausts can post amazing gains that are never achieved by buyers in the real world)
-at the end of the day if you have two cars with two piggy back boost controllers (that's what jb4 and racechip are, they're not "tunes" given they're so simple and unidimensional) both operating with the same additive boost in the same conditions, both are going to perform equally, the reason to orchard one (jb4) vs the other (racechip) is that the jb4 has more safety / functionality / logging / capabilities to go farther than racechip.

People can get whatever they want, it's a free country, but people should be properly informed about their purchases. This isn't about Amy likes these sets of wheels more than Bob because this is predominantly subjective aesthetic choice with little objective differences between the products... . Racechip v JB4 is fundamentally a comparison between performance products where comparisons should be largely based on objective measures.

Racechip does have some advantages to the jb4 but I for one can't imagine they would be material enough to convince anyone to go for it over a jb4.

Cost is where racechip wins (its like 200 usd cheaper?)
Ease of installation (you have one or two less cables to plug in, neither of which are particularly hard to do)

... If you think these two advantages is worth going for the objectively inferior product then ok I got nothing to say, you do you buddy

And both of them will void your warranty…. Bummer because otherwise I want one

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

And both of them will void your warranty…. Bummer because otherwise I want one

Jury is out on this one

If you uninstall both before taking it back to service they shouldn't "know"

There's those "tuner codes" people talk about but if push comes to shove its very difficult to prove that you did anything if this is the ONLY device you have on your car.

If on the other hand you have a body kit and aftermarket brakes and aftermarket suspension and an obnoxious exhaust and giant rims etc. It would be far easier for the dealer /manufacturer to be like... Yes you definitely did something to the engine

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

And both of them will void your warranty…. Bummer because otherwise I want one

Hundreds of thousands of BMW have been tuned since 2008; I am not aware of any data showing warranties being voided. If i were to guess, I would say the chances of the warranty being voided is very close to 0%

[Brucelinc]

I have tuned every car I have owned since 2010 and never had a warranty issue.

[Boosted_8]

Kriz2fer despite all of the childish ranting on this thread, I'm still wishing you good results and looking forward to some dragy data.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Brucelinc

I have tuned every car I have owned since 2010 and never had a warranty issue.

Is that because you've never had AN issue ? or never had a warranty claim blocked because of your tuning ?

Those are very different claims.

I've never had an engine issue due to my tuning or otherwise (thank god) but I'm not going to claim I've never had warranty issues despite my tuning.

I know for a fact there are dealers who will find any excuse in the book while there are other dealers who are really cool about modifications.

It's very dependent on who that person at the dealership is.

[Brucelinc]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

Is that because you've never had AN issue ? or never had a warranty claim blocked because of your tuning ?

Those are very different claims.

Never an issue that would be caused by the tune or that would raise suspicions. If I had a car towed to the dealership with a rod hanging out of the block, things could and should have been different.....especially if there were other obvious clues like bolt-on mods.

I agree that not all dealers are the same. I had a nice chat with the service manager of my dealer about mods and warranty work. He said, "I do not pay my techs to look for reasons to deny warranty work and piss off customers."

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Brucelinc

Never an issue that would be caused by the tune or that would raise suspicions. If I had a car towed to the dealership with a rod hanging out of the block, things could and should have been different.....especially if there were other obvious clues like bolt-on mods.

I agree that not all dealers are the same. I had a nice chat with the service manager of my dealer about mods and warranty work. He said, "I do not pay my techs to look for reasons to deny warranty work and piss off customers."

that's a good dealership to deal with

if only they were all that understanding

[Kriz2fer]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

This is retarded

If you're only going after the same level of boost as racechip, jb4 is equally "set and forget" (use map 1)

The difference being, jb4 allows for more headroom in the future


Also if you're concerned about running into ignition /knock limits, racechip is still a terrible idea because again, it has no idea when your engine is running into issues because it isn't hooked up to the dme to "see" any of these variables.

The only argument for using race chip is that it is slightly cheaper and installation is mildly easier due to the fact you DON'T have to feed the obd2 cable. While this is "a reason". It is a pretty terrible reason.

Does the jb4 work with 2022 m550i?

[Boosted_8]

Originally Posted by Kriz2fer

Does the jb4 work with 2022 m550i?

The wastegate plugs don't fit, only the boost plugs and Obd are applicable.

[Kriz2fer]

Originally Posted by Boosted_8

The wastegate plugs don't fit, only the boost plugs and Obd are applicable.

Is there any plan for updated version?

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Boosted_8

The wastegate plugs don't fit, only the boost plugs and Obd are applicable.

Do the n63 jb4 even have an EWG harness? I thought only the B48/B58 does

[Kriz2fer]

Originally Posted by Boosted_8

The wastegate plugs don't fit, only the boost plugs and Obd are applicable.

So with jb4 are the only options map 1? From reading your other thread is seems this isn’t designed for the newer engine? How did you achieve a 10 second pass?

[Boosted_8]

The JB4 N63 'out of the box maps' were created for the F series 550i, they haven't done any development work on the N63 TOP (523hp) variant. (Despite any claim to the contrary... they don't even have a fitting guide).
How did I get it working right and running 10's? I had to log and correlate to dragy over a period of weeks to figure out map one was pulling timing on pump fuel and map 2 was just plain slower than map 1!
Re EWG, the waste gate plugs are the same connector on the M550i just in a different orientation, so the ones Burger supplies on the harness can't fit on.