[beanbaguk]

I took part in a thread discussing car security. Since buying my G30, I've upped my game. The car now has a proper alarm, my garage is alarmed and has CCTV, plus it also have active security and a zero-vision smoke machine if triggered. There are also two large gates to get through.

In short, it's pretty safe. However somebody mentioned the use of a faraday bag to defeat the comfort access hack crooks use these days. It made sense to me so I purchased some bags from Amazon.

3 x Genuine jaula de Faraday... https://www.amazon.es/dp/B074VBCYC6?...p_mob_ap_share

They did not work at all and are nothing but a con.

I've demonstrated this in the video below:

I've asked Amazon to remove the item as it's very misleading but we'll see. In the meantime, I'll get my money back.

So my question. Do faraday bags really work or is it all marketing bull?

[Warp Ten]

Interesting. Have you ever tried the same test with the key fob wrapped in aluminum foil? That is often recommended say if you want to carry a second key in the car and don't want it to be the dominant key for your settings, or if you want to keep a key from interacting with the car nearby. I found I had to wrap the fob in several layers of foil to get it to not interact with the car. From a standpoint of working with the BMW keys, the bags you bought obviously don't. You sound like a very electronics-savvy person, so I am sure you understand that Faraday cages or shields have a variety of variables that affect how effective they are; my guess is that the BMW frequencies are simply not attenuated by the bags you bought through Amazon.

I used to have a friend whose business was constructing Faraday cages for U.S. Government installations like Embassies. I had forgotten how complicated Faraday cages can be. Forgive me for being a bit nerdy, but I found that Wikipedia has a fairly thorough write up and related links and it was interesting to me to read. Here is their introduction:

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure used to block electromagnetic fields. A Faraday shield may be formed by a continuous covering of conductive material, or in the case of a Faraday cage, by a mesh of such materials. Faraday cages are named after the English scientist Michael Faraday, who invented them in 1836.[1]

A Faraday cage operates because an external electrical field causes the electric charges within the cage's conducting material to be distributed so that they cancel the field's effect in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used to protect sensitive electronic equipment from external radio frequency interference (RFI). Faraday cages are also used to enclose devices that produce RFI, such as radio transmitters, to prevent their radio waves from interfering with other nearby equipment. They are also used to protect people and equipment against actual electric currents such as lightning strikes and electrostatic discharges, since the enclosing cage conducts current around the outside of the enclosed space and none passes through the interior.

Faraday cages cannot block stable or slowly varying magnetic fields, such as the Earth's magnetic field (a compass will still work inside). To a large degree, though, they shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. For example, certain computer forensic test procedures of electronic systems that require an environment free of electromagnetic interference can be carried out within a screened room. These rooms are spaces that are completely enclosed by one or more layers of a fine metal mesh or perforated sheet metal. The metal layers are grounded to dissipate any electric currents generated from external or internal electromagnetic fields, and thus they block a large amount of the electromagnetic interference. See also electromagnetic shielding. They provide less attenuation of outgoing transmissions than incoming: they can block EMP waves from natural phenomena very effectively, but a tracking device, especially in upper frequencies, may be able to penetrate from within the cage (e.g., some cell phones operate at various radio frequencies so while one cell phone may not work, another one will).

A common misconception is that a Faraday cage provides full blockage or attenuation; this is not true. The reception or transmission of radio waves, a form of electromagnetic radiation, to or from an antenna within a Faraday cage is heavily attenuated or blocked by the cage; however, a Faraday cage has varied attenuation depending on wave form, frequency or distance from receiver/transmitter, and receiver/transmitter power. Near-field high-powered frequency transmissions like HF RFID are more likely to penetrate. Solid cages generally attenuate fields over a broader range of frequencies than mesh cages.

I suppose it would be interesting to discover what frequencies the BMW key fobs operate on (I haven't done so) and see if one can figure out what type of Faraday shield might work with them. --Bob

[bctz123]

I have just ordered this one / MONOJOY Keyless Go Schutz Autoschlüssel, Strahlenschutz Tasche für Wagen Schlüssel [ Harris Tweed ] RFID Strahlenschutz Tasche für Keyless Schlüssel, autoschlüssel Safe (Grau) https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07881YB1W/..._7ZoTCbH6M2XY1

Will let you know if it works soon.

[beanbaguk]

Originally Posted by Warp Ten

Interesting. Have you ever tried the same test with the key fob wrapped in aluminum foil? That is often recommended say if you want to carry a second key in the car and don't want it to be the dominant key for your settings, or if you want to keep a key from interacting with the car nearby. I found I had to wrap the fob in several layers of foil to get it to not interact with the car. From a standpoint of working with the BMW keys, the bags you bought obviously don't. You sound like a very electronics-savvy person, so I am sure you understand that Faraday cages or shields have a variety of variables that affect how effective they are; my guess is that the BMW frequencies are simply not attenuated by the bags you bought through Amazon.

I used to have a friend whose business was constructing Faraday cages for U.S. Government installations like Embassies. I had forgotten how complicated Faraday cages can be. Forgive me for being a bit nerdy, but I found that Wikipedia has a fairly thorough write up and related links and it was interesting to me to read. Here is their introduction:

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure used to block electromagnetic fields. A Faraday shield may be formed by a continuous covering of conductive material, or in the case of a Faraday cage, by a mesh of such materials. Faraday cages are named after the English scientist Michael Faraday, who invented them in 1836.[1]

A Faraday cage operates because an external electrical field causes the electric charges within the cage's conducting material to be distributed so that they cancel the field's effect in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used to protect sensitive electronic equipment from external radio frequency interference (RFI). Faraday cages are also used to enclose devices that produce RFI, such as radio transmitters, to prevent their radio waves from interfering with other nearby equipment. They are also used to protect people and equipment against actual electric currents such as lightning strikes and electrostatic discharges, since the enclosing cage conducts current around the outside of the enclosed space and none passes through the interior.

Faraday cages cannot block stable or slowly varying magnetic fields, such as the Earth's magnetic field (a compass will still work inside). To a large degree, though, they shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. For example, certain computer forensic test procedures of electronic systems that require an environment free of electromagnetic interference can be carried out within a screened room. These rooms are spaces that are completely enclosed by one or more layers of a fine metal mesh or perforated sheet metal. The metal layers are grounded to dissipate any electric currents generated from external or internal electromagnetic fields, and thus they block a large amount of the electromagnetic interference. See also electromagnetic shielding. They provide less attenuation of outgoing transmissions than incoming: they can block EMP waves from natural phenomena very effectively, but a tracking device, especially in upper frequencies, may be able to penetrate from within the cage (e.g., some cell phones operate at various radio frequencies so while one cell phone may not work, another one will).

A common misconception is that a Faraday cage provides full blockage or attenuation; this is not true. The reception or transmission of radio waves, a form of electromagnetic radiation, to or from an antenna within a Faraday cage is heavily attenuated or blocked by the cage; however, a Faraday cage has varied attenuation depending on wave form, frequency or distance from receiver/transmitter, and receiver/transmitter power. Near-field high-powered frequency transmissions like HF RFID are more likely to penetrate. Solid cages generally attenuate fields over a broader range of frequencies than mesh cages.

I suppose it would be interesting to discover what frequencies the BMW key fobs operate on (I haven't done so) and see if one can figure out what type of Faraday shield might work with them. --Bob

I'm flattered you call me savvy with electronics! But in all seriousness, I have a basic knowledge and I like to learn new things so this is also fairly interesting for me.

I'll try to experiment a little when I get some time using aluminium foil. I may even give it a go creating my own bag and see where I get.

Following your post, I would guess the frequency BMW use with their keys is simply not compatible with that of the bag. Having said that, I still find their advertising very misleading and have asked Amazon to force them to update their description. What's interesting however, is a Citroen owner posted a positive review. I'd like to find out what frequency Citroen use in their keys....

Ultimately it's a shame BMW don't allow customers to disable comfort access from the vehicle settings as the likelihood is I probably would disable the feature. It's no great effort for me to hit a button on my remote. I don't even use the display key and would much rather stick to a traditional key that I don't have to charge so that gadget is relegated to a drawer.

[W500]

Hi I bought this 2 pack and can confirm they absolutely do work for my g30 keys.

2 x Car Key Signal Blocking Pouch by Cloakmate | Faraday Bag Protector for Keyless Fobs | RFID Blocker for Car Keys https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DN2D4..._3gqTCbGARD76B

[saporitj]

So Faraday cages and Faraday bags perform same function but are different. Cage sends signals to ground bag can't. The federal govt uses Faraday bags for cell phones in secure areas. Put your phone in bag and no more cell reception. A good Faraday bag should block ALL electric signals in and out. A cheap one well it just looks pretty. lol

[saporitj]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

I took part in a thread discussing car security. Since buying my G30, I've upped my game. The car now has a proper alarm, my garage is alarmed and has CCTV, plus it also have active security and a zero-vision smoke machine if triggered. There are also two large gates to get through.

In short, it's pretty safe. However somebody mentioned the use of a faraday bag to defeat the comfort access hack crooks use these days. It made sense to me so I purchased some bags from Amazon.

3 x Genuine jaula de Faraday... https://www.amazon.es/dp/B074VBCYC6?...p_mob_ap_share

They did not work at all and are nothing but a con.

I've demonstrated this in the video below:

I've asked Amazon to remove the item as it's very misleading but we'll see. In the meantime, I'll get my money back.

So my question. Do faraday bags really work or is it all marketing bull?

Fortunately I don't need all that stuff in the states. My BMW is in garage (to keep it clean) but my sons Mazda is always in the driveway unlocked 1/2 the time. I am curious what you mean by upgraded car alarm to proper alarm. What exactly did they replace. Did you add a steering wheel lock bar. Lol
In the states the police boot your car if you have unpaid tickets. It's a big yellow disc that attaches to one of your wheels and won't come off. Maybe there is a market for it as a security device 🤔

[beanbaguk]

Originally Posted by saporitj

Fortunately I don't need all that stuff in the states. My BMW is in garage (to keep it clean) but my sons Mazda is always in the driveway unlocked 1/2 the time. I am curious what you mean by upgraded car alarm to proper alarm. What exactly did they replace. Did you add a steering wheel lock bar. Lol
In the states the police boot your car if you have unpaid tickets. It's a big yellow disc that attaches to one of your wheels and won't come off. Maybe there is a market for it as a security device 🤔

My F31 just had an immobiliser whereas my G30 has both an audible alarm, internal sensors and a tracker which is not from BMW that sends a notification to me if the car has been disturbed. I even have front and rear dash cams which record instantly if anyone bumps into the car even while it's parked.

Sadly there are a lot of thefts of my type of car in the area due to my proximity to Africa (cars are stolen, loaded onto containers and they disappear from Europe), and people have little respect for other cars frequently bashing them while parked and driving off. It happened twice in my F31 and I had no dash cam. I'm not taking any chances any longer.

I paid for my G30 outright so as it's 100% mine, I try hard to take care of my pride and joy!

I've just ordered a carbon M Performance spoiler and I'm in two minds if I should return it or not as I'm worried some low-life thief tw@t may rip it off.... 😢 I also wanted to add the rear carbon diffuser, side skirt blades, front splitter and carbon wing mirrors covers over time but I'm probably going to avoid that as the car will stand out too much.

[beanbaguk]

I have to admit I check this often too but I really wish I had the surround view option. Unfortunately my G30 didn't come with that one fitted.

[mobilejo]

I have a few of these - I have 2 of the version in your video; they worked when I bought them in 2017 but no longer work, although they do both have a small tear in the top.

But I also have 2 of a different type - they still work. These ones:

[mobilejo]

So I would say its the same situation we see with everything - a genuine version is introduced and its popularity soars. Charlatans see this and flood the market with cheaply made, low quality knockoffs to get a piece of the pie. You just need to buy wisely.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

I took part in a thread discussing car security. Since buying my G30, I've upped my game. The car now has a proper alarm, my garage is alarmed and has CCTV, plus it also have active security and a zero-vision smoke machine if triggered. There are also two large gates to get through.

In short, it's pretty safe. However somebody mentioned the use of a faraday bag to defeat the comfort access hack crooks use these days. It made sense to me so I purchased some bags from Amazon.

3 x Genuine jaula de Faraday... https://www.amazon.es/dp/B074VBCYC6?...p_mob_ap_share

They did not work at all and are nothing but a con.

I've demonstrated this in the video below:

I've asked Amazon to remove the item as it's very misleading but we'll see. In the meantime, I'll get my money back.

So my question. Do faraday bags really work or is it all marketing bull?

Well I have two of these and they work PERFECT, you need to put the keys in the INSIDE lined pocket.

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5

you need to put the keys in the INSIDE lined pocket.

Oh yeah - I missed that. He put the key in the wrong part. Definitely won't work there I have made that mistake before.

The key HAS to be inside of the lined part, not in outer pocket.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

Oh yeah - I missed that. He put the key in the wrong part. Definitely won't work there I have made that mistake before.

The key HAS to be inside of the lined part, not in outer pocket.

Easy done M8.

[beanbaguk]

Ok, I'm missing something or I'm totally lost.

There is only one pocket to place the key into.....unless of course you're referring to the video start image? :

[Pale0Blue0Eyes]

The Signal Blocker pouch most definitely does work.
There are 2 pockets. Key must be in pocket lined with metallic looking fabric - opening is part of the flap.

[Bibbles]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Ok, I'm missing something or I'm totally lost.

There is only one pocket to place the key into.....unless of course you're referring to the video start image? :

Yep they work, you've just put the key in the wrong place.

[Qsilver7]

[saporitj]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

My F31 just had an immobiliser whereas my G30 has both an audible alarm, internal sensors and a tracker which is not from BMW that sends a notification to me if the car has been disturbed. I even have front and rear dash cams which record instantly if anyone bumps into the car even while it's parked.

Sadly there are a lot of thefts of my type of car in the area due to my proximity to Africa (cars are stolen, loaded onto containers and they disappear from Europe), and people have little respect for other cars frequently bashing them while parked and driving off. It happened twice in my F31 and I had no dash cam. I'm not taking any chances any longer.

I paid for my G30 outright so as it's 100% mine, I try hard to take care of my pride and joy!

I've just ordered a carbon M Performance spoiler and I'm in two minds if I should return it or not as I'm worried some low-life thief tw@t may rip it off.... 😢 I also wanted to add the rear carbon diffuser, side skirt blades, front splitter and carbon wing mirrors covers over time but I'm probably going to avoid that as the car will stand out too much.

While I don't worry as much about the car being stolen, we have the exact same problem with people that don't respect others property. Because they don't care or think it's silly to worry about a car they bash their doors into yours and think nothing of it.

Wish I had 3D cameras but I didn't realize it was moved from premium package to parking package in US. Only package I didn't add and dealerships said they couldn't add it only 3 days after order was placed. Said because f IND seats ;(

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Ok, I'm missing something or I'm totally lost.

There is only one pocket to place the key into.....unless of course you're referring to the video start image? :

You'll see that you put the key 'in front' of that gold/metallic looking layer. You need to put it 'behind' that layer.

[AP]

I hate people aswell that don't care about others property and when parking I also do my best to park far away from where others will park.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Ok, I'm missing something or I'm totally lost.

There is only one pocket to place the key into.....unless of course you're referring to the video start image? :

Prohaps your forum name should read bag of marbles.