[lemetier]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

No one knows why BMW isn't offering laser lights as an option on the G30 like you can in Canada and elsewhere. It is just another head scratcher on the decisions made by BMWNA.

Laser lights are offered on the 3-Series, X5, and other cars in the US. So it isn't like they aren't offering laser lights in the US at all. Unusual I'd imagine that you can get a "better" option on the 3-Series than you can on the 5-Series...

G3x LCI Laser Lights have 3 independent forward lighting elements per side which is not compliant with FMVSS 108 (maximum of 2 per side allowed).

F90 CS is the only 5er that gets them in the US due to the extremely low volume which allowed an exemption for Non-Conformity to be approved.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

G3x LCI Laser Lights have 3 independent forward lighting elements per side which is not compliant with FMVSS 108 (maximum of 2 per side allowed).

F90 CS is the only 5er that gets them in the US due to the extremely low volume which allowed an exemption for Non-Conformity to be approved.

What do you mean exactly?

The G30 has had laser lights outside the US pre-LCI and LCI. The LCI laser light has less independent lights than the pre-LCI Full Adaptive LED headlights.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

What do you mean exactly?

The G30 has had laser lights outside the US pre-LCI and LCI. The LCI laser light has less independent lights than the pre-LCI Full Adaptive LED headlights.

LCI Laser has MORE independent forward light emitting units, with the Multi-Function Laser Module housed between the inboard LED projector and cornering lamp.

Pre-LCI Laserlight is an extremely rare bird on US 5er that didn't go to Canada specifically because they didn't provide any benefit over the Icon Adaptive LED when FMVSS restrictions were applied.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

LCI Laser has MORE independent forward light emitting units, with the Multi-Function Laser Module housed between the inboard LED projector and cornering lamp.

Pre-LCI Laserlight is an extremely rare bird on US 5er that didn't go to Canada specifically because they didn't provide any benefit over the Icon Adaptive LED when FMVSS restrictions were applied.

I doubt that matters. The Adaptive Full LED headlights from the pre-LCI had 4 independent light emitting units and Mercedes and many other cars have many more than 2.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I doubt that matters. The Adaptive Full LED headlights from the pre-LCI had 4 independent light emitting units and Mercedes and many other cars have many more than 2.

Attachment 2714315

Attachment 2714316

Solid State Chip Sets and Light Emitting Units are not the same thing.

Pre-LCI Icon Adaptive LED and Pre-LCI Laserlight both have 2 LEU Per Side under FMVSS. That MB image you posted also only has 2.

If you really want your mind blown, this is considered 1 LEU.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Solid State Chip Sets and Light Emitting Units are not the same thing.

Pre-LCI Icon Adaptive LED and Pre-LCI Laserlight both have 2 LEU Per Side under FMVSS. That MB image you posted also only has 2.

If you really want your mind blown, this is considered 1 LEU.

I won’t claim to understand the federal regulation here. But I am not sure how that Mercedes headlight or the one you posted could count as 1 light emitting source, but the BMW laser light as 3. Nor do I get how the pre-LCI is 2.

But BMW could have created a light that was US compatible on the LCI as they did for the 3-Series and the X5. They chose not to. Whatever their reasons.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I won't claim to understand the federal regulation here. But I am not sure how that Mercedes headlight or the one you posted could count as 1 light emitting source, but the BMW laser light as 3. Nor do I get how the pre-LCI is 2.

But BMW could have created a light that was US compatible on the LCI as they did for the 3-Series and the X5. They chose not to. Whatever their reasons.

Fortunately there is someone here who does understand the regulations; myself. Like all bureaucratic issues, it's confusing at best.

BMW doesn't make the headlamps or the modular components within them. On G3x/F90 LCI, the Laser Light Module is too large to combine it within the Matrix Module. Because it is also a 4th Gen Laser Light system, the functions have been greatly expanded, requiring it's separate placement. It is no longer just a Supplemental High Beam light.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Fortunately there is someone here who does understand the regulations; myself. Like all bureaucratic issues, it's confusing at best.

BMW doesn't make the headlamps or the modular components within them. On G3x/F90 LCI, the Laser Light Module is too large to combine it within the Matrix Module. Because it is also a 4th Gen Laser Light system, the functions have been greatly expanded, requiring it's separate placement. It is no longer just a Supplemental High Beam light.

I’m even more confused now. If BMW doesn’t make the headlamps or the modular components within them who does? That’s not a trick question. I get BMW will outsource the actual manufacturing to a supplier, but BMW designs the headlight and leverages their own technology in doing so.

Just like how BMW’s Adaptive Headlight LED matrix isn’t the same as the Audi or Mercedes implementation they design the headlights they use.

BMW absolutely decided to design and use a headlamp that wouldn’t be compatible with the US market as you state. The reasons though is anyone’s guess still though. As they had BMW Laser Lights for the 5-Series pre-LCI around the world which looked like the Adaptive Full LED with the extra Laser piece. Those were not sold in the US while sold on the 3-Series and X5.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I'm even more confused now. If BMW doesn't make the headlamps or the modular components within them who does? That's not a trick question. I get BMW will outsource the actual manufacturing to a supplier, but BMW designs the headlight and leverages their own technology in doing so.

Just like how BMW's Adaptive Headlight LED matrix isn't the same as the Audi or Mercedes implementation they design the headlights they use.

BMW absolutely decided to design and use a headlamp that wouldn't be compatible with the US market as you state. The reasons though is anyone's guess still though. As they had BMW Laser Lights for the 5-Series pre-LCI around the world which looked like the Adaptive Full LED with the extra Laser piece. Those were not sold in the US while sold on the 3-Series and X5.

[IMG]https://static.schmiedmann.dk/Produc...270709_big.jpg[/IMG]

Hella is the supplier for the G3x/F90 LCI. The Matrix Module and Laser Module used in this application can be found in many other vehicles including models from MB and Audi. No Vehicle Manufacturer develops their own lighting components beyond the aesthetics and work with lighting suppliers to develop and incorporate components. Sometimes these agreements include time based exclusivity agreements for new technologies.

The Pre-LCI G30 M550/F90 M5 Icon with the GEN 2 Laser Light option wasn't "officially" available in the US because as I noted earlier, they didn't provide any improvement in lighting performance. TBH, they were actually worse than the regular Icon Adaptive LED. Canada had changed their regulations by this point, so the decision was made to limit them to that Market.

The other models you mention (3/4er, LCI 7er, 8er, X5/6/7) use a Gen 3 Laser system which is different than the GEN 2 Pre-LCI 5er/7er and has slightly more functionality then Gen 2, but it is still incorporated within the existing outboard Combination LEU.

Had FMVSS 108 been deregulated by Oct of last year after a decade of battle to do so, this wouldn't be an issue of discussion.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Hella is the supplier for the G3x/F90 LCI. The Matrix Module and Laser Module used in this application can be found in many other vehicles including models from MB and Audi. No Vehicle Manufacturer develops their own lighting components beyond the aesthetics and work with lighting suppliers to develop and incorporate components. Sometimes these agreements include time based exclusivity agreements for new technologies.

The Pre-LCI G30 M550/F90 M5 Icon with the GEN 2 Laser Light option wasn't "officially" available in the US because as I noted earlier, they didn't provide any improvement in lighting performance. TBH, they were actually worse than the regular Icon Adaptive LED. Canada had changed their regulations by this point, so the decision was made to limit them to that Market.

The other models you mention (3/4er, LCI 7er, 8er, X5/6/7) use a Gen 3 Laser system which is different than the GEN 2 Pre-LCI 5er/7er and has slightly more functionality then Gen 2, but it is still incorporated within the existing outboard Combination LEU.

Had FMVSS 108 been deregulated by Oct of last year after a decade of battle to do so, this wouldn't be an issue of discussion.

I won't say I understand it with this level of depth. Thanks for the deeper insight.

My only point is that BMW could offer the 5-Series with Laserlight, but they've chosen to do otherwise and they have their reasons. We just have no idea what those reasons truly are.

I really would love to see our headlight regulations updated though so we could get the headlight improvements we're seeing across the world and are "decoded" on our cars. I have no idea why this is still MIA other than the government dragging their feet as usual.

[kennyzm]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Fortunately there is someone here who does understand the regulations; myself. Like all bureaucratic issues, it's confusing at best.

BMW doesn't make the headlamps or the modular components within them. On G3x/F90 LCI, the Laser Light Module is too large to combine it within the Matrix Module. Because it is also a 4th Gen Laser Light system, the functions have been greatly expanded, requiring it's separate placement. It is no longer just a Supplemental High Beam light.

Are the g3x laser lights different from the g2x?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

My only point is that BMW could offer the 5-Series with Laserlight, but they've chosen to do otherwise and they have their reasons. We just have no idea what those reasons truly are.

No they could not. I've explained the reasons why but it's up to the reader to accept the truth. As you stated you don't understand this subject in depth, stop fabricating bullshit.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by kennyzm

Are the g3x laser lights different from the g2x?

Completely different in architecture, design, and functions.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

No they could not. I've explained the reasons why but it's up to the reader to accept the truth. As you stated you don't understand this subject in depth, stop fabricating bullshit.

That escalated quickly…

I am not even sure what BS you think I am fabricating. If it is my assertion that BMW chose not to offer the Laser Light option in the US because they chose not to. I can’t see how that is a fabrication of anything… No BMW supplier is dictating what parts BMW absolutely has to use in their cars.

But I guess that is BS.

[kennyzm]

[QUOTE=lemetier;28121371][QUOTE=kennyzm;28120834][QUOTE=lemetier;28119790][QUOTE=LogicalApex;28119737]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Completely different in architecture, design, and functions.

The latest tech in the g3x and older tech in g2x? Claimed range of laser lights is 650 meters for the g3x and 530 meters for the g2x. (BMW.no)

[scsfll]

What's even sadder is corprorate states that they are not sold any more when in fact they are but with less functionality.

[en1gma]

There are a few things to differentiate here…

1). The lights swivelling with the wheel, to follow corners. So, is that now gone in the LCI and does that affect all markets/countries? Yes, there are cars (other brands, usually cheaper ones) which just illuminate another light when cornering at low/city speeds- but I want the ones which follow the wheel. Is that no longer the case???

2). Different legislation. There is a decent video on WSJ or Bloomberg website - can't remember which, but it's on YouTube (for free) talking about rapid increase in headlight tech. It also details the legal/legislation rules in the US and why they have not been able to implement innovations seen in other countries.

3). The microchip shortage and companies de-speccing cars/changing their offering. A whole other game!


Personally, I want confirmation about point 1!

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by en1gma

There are a few things to differentiate here…

1). The lights swivelling with the wheel, to follow corners. So, is that now gone in the LCI and does that affect all markets/countries? Yes, there are cars (other brands, usually cheaper ones) which just illuminate another light when cornering at low/city speeds- but I want the ones which follow the wheel. Is that no longer the case???

2). Different legislation. There is a decent video on WSJ or Bloomberg website - can't remember which, but it's on YouTube (for free) talking about rapid increase in headlight tech. It also details the legal/legislation rules in the US and why they have not been able to implement innovations seen in other countries.

3). The microchip shortage and companies de-speccing cars/changing their offering. A whole other game!


Personally, I want confirmation about point 1!

On point 1:

Starting with G3x, G01/2 LCI, and coming to future models, mechanical stepper motors have been eliminated and adaptive lighting is now fully digital. The Matrix LED module provides software driven beam shaping but this is inhibited in the US (not applicable to other markets).

On models equipped with the Laser Light option, the Laser Module provides additional dynamic lighting in ALL modes; no longer just as a supplemental high beam used in previous applications.

[r1cero]

Citroen introduced swiveling headligths in 1967, bmw cancelling it in 2021

[MikeElmendorf]

Lemetier - So are you saying that, with it being fully digital, the LCI 5 series with the LED headlights could in theory be coded to be adaptive like the pre-LCI LEDs were able to be coded to have the tunneling?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by MikeElmendorf

Lemetier - So are you saying that, with it being fully digital, the LCI 5 series with the LED headlights could in theory be coded to be adaptive like the pre-LCI LEDs were able to be coded to have the tunneling?

Yes but with a couple of caveats.

After FMVSS 108 deregulation is finally published, the functions can be enabled officially from BMW via an OTA update so there is an incentive to wait for that.

The unofficial coding currently used isn't great; I call it marginal at best. Just to give one example, with HBA active, the adaptive bend lighting logic for the matrix module ceases to function. While it doesn't create an unsafe situation for other drivers, the shaded area(s) can be excessively large unless the target is directly in front of you.

[LogicalApex]

Here is a link to the proposed rule update to allow the technology in the US that was closed for comment in 2018 and we’re all still awaiting final rule approval. The unknown is how the rule will address cars already on the road that have the technology, but have had it turned off by the car manufacturer (probably more than half the new cars on the road). Hopefully it allows manufacturers to activate this technology in those cars as well.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...ated-equipment