[Dackelone]

I saw this video the other day and it made me think back to this (popular)thread...


The Tale Of Tatra - XCAR...

[bzzzp]

It's very expensive to buy a foreign brand cars in China. The copy-cats go out to steal these designs for their own products for sale domestically at a reduced cost, capitalizing heavily on style from larger international makers.

I wonder how much the large brands really care about this?

Do knock-off cars really compromising sales of the original product since buyers of these cars can't afford it to begin with? I suppose brand dilution is a big concern if the quality of these cars are good enough to pass as a the real thing?

Anyone ever sit (or better, drive) in a good knock-off?

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Industrial espionage is the covert and sometimes illegal practice of investigating competitors to gain a business advantage. The target of investigation might be a trade secret such as a proprietary product specification or formula, or information about business plans.

industrial espionage
n
1. (Commerce) attempting to obtain trade secrets by dishonest means, as by telephone- or computer-tapping, infiltration of a competitor's workforce, etc



Earlier this week while at the press days at the Frankfurt Auto Show(IAA) I was really astounded by how brazen and openly to corporate spies were operating at every manufacture's booth/display! I've seen it before in past years at the IAA... but this year it seemed like the flood gates were open. It was really amazing how many "spies" were out and about.

Most of the German car makers just turned a blind eye to it. But I remember at Ford(and at some other booths) the staff would ask to see your press credentials and IF you could not provide them... you could not look at their cars or sit inside of them. I remember talking to a few sales people from the different manufacturers... and I was like... this is a PRESS DAY... so how do these people get in here? They said that ANY manufacturer can put people they want on a List... and that is how they get into the show.

I even saw some people with really young kids on the Press Days at the IAA. That really blew my mind. So unprofessional IF you ask me.

Here are a few pics of the kinds of spies I saw. This is just a few. I think at almost every car maker's display area... I saw "spies" taking pics. Closeups or pics with small rulers for scale. It was just unreal.


Dackel




Attachment 1284630

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That's just China...look out for more of THESE:

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by bzzzp

It's very expensive to buy a foreign brand cars in China. The copy-cats go out to steal these designs for their own products for sale domestically at a reduced cost, capitalizing heavily on style from larger international makers.

I wonder how much the large brands really care about this?

Do knock-off cars really compromising sales of the original product since buyers of these cars can't afford it to begin with? I suppose brand dilution is a big concern if the quality of these cars are good enough to pass as a the real thing?

Anyone ever sit (or better, drive) in a good knock-off?

There was a company in Italy that imported these Chinese knock off X5's into Europe. I think they imported about a 100 of them before BMW was able to get the EU to put a stop to it. Here is a video of one of those cars after just a few years use. The engineering and durability was an absolute horror!!

Click on CC and then Settings to auto translate into English. (well sort of English)


At the end of the show they blew up this copy-cat X5...

[bailyhill]

Next years Kia or Hyundai.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by bailyhill

Next years Kia or Hyundai.

Actually... my "friends" over at BMW say that Hyundai, is the one automaker in the East to keep an eye on. They have really made some inroads with design/packaging/content in their car lines. Kia, not so much so.

[sygazelle]

At the very end of the source where you got your definition of industrial espionage is the following sentence: Industrial espionage is distinct from competitive intelligence (CI), which is confined to the gathering of publicly available information.

What is happening in the photos you are showing in your post is competitive intelligence. CI is alive and well in every trade show on the planet in every industry. When I sent my team to trade shows, our job was to learn what we can about the competition as long as it is legal. Our job also was to vet anyone coming into our booth to learn about what what we were doing and to be careful what we share. This is just business. Any company who is not gleaning legal, public information about its competition is not doing their job, period.

The cars are available on public display in a public forum. If a car company doesn't what to bring a car to be picked over by the competition then they should leave it home.

A car show could make rules about photographs, time in car, rulers, etc. My guess is no car company would agree because they want their teams to be able to do the same thing.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Looks like I am not the only one not to like all the "spies" at the major auto shows...


Auto Shows Are Filled With Car Companies Spying On Their Rivals
http://jalopnik.com/auto-shows-are-f...=1452720093183

I get why you don't like the spies at car shows, but there is nothing illegal about what you showed in your post or what is discussed in the jalopnik article. This is merely competitive intelligence. Maybe distasteful to you, but not illegal. The author of the Jalopnik article you referenced called it spying. These guys are openly photographing, measuring, and taking notes in a public place of products on public display. That is not spying. You are referencing an article that finds the practice distasteful, but no where in the article does the author claim the activity is illegal.

[DDD31]

My step-son and I noticed the same thing at this years NAIA with mostly Asian guys doing the same thing as mentioned in this thread. One guy must of spent 10 minutes photographing and intently staring at something in the engine bay of a Mazda Miata. For a little fun I stood right next to him and stared at the engine bay for a good 2 minutes. Finally I asked him if he was looking for the dipstick. He just gave me a funny look and continued studying something in the engine. It amazed both of us how much studying, photographing, and measuring these guys did of the most minute details like how wide the rear wiper was on a VW.

[TSM330i]

I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/bmw-lose...ine-1461086049

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by DDD31

My step-son and I noticed the same thing at this years NAIA with mostly Asian guys doing the same thing as mentioned in this thread. One guy must of spent 10 minutes photographing and intently staring at something in the engine bay of a Mazda Miata. For a little fun I stood right next to him and stared at the engine bay for a good 2 minutes. Finally I asked him if he was looking for the dipstick. He just gave me a funny look and continued studying something in the engine. It amazed both of us how much studying, photographing, and measuring these guys did of the most minute details like how wide the rear wiper was on a VW.

I saw the same thing at Frankfurt. Guys with small measuring rulers to photograph parts with. Sometimes they even had micrometers with them.

But there was this one Asian guy at the Audi stand who had a note book and small camera videoing Audi's new in dash Nav system. Menus and functions and all. That was too much. He must have spent 45 minutes in that cockpit mockup of the new TT with the new Nvidia powered instrument panel/gauges.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Actually... my "friends" over at BMW say that Hyundai, is the one automaker in the East to keep an eye on. They have really made some inroads with design/packaging/content in their car lines. Kia, not so much so.

Hyundai and Kia are the same company... they just develop different product lines for each brand. The current head designers for Hyundai and Kia are originally head designers from Audi. That's why they have European style designs.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Z K

Hyundai and Kia are the same company... they just develop different product lines for each brand. The current head designers for Hyundai and Kia are originally head designers from Audi. That's why they have European style designs.

Also why Audi just keeps rehashing their old designs with 0.5% change.

[Mingwan]

This shouldn't be shocking. After all, it is an open show where products are on display where you can interact with them.

I think it is a bit overboard when the guys are filming and documenting specs on a car, measuring every detail, likely in an effort to plagiarize from the data they gain.

[NFiftyWon]

Dont you think corperate espionage is a bit of a reach? Every corporation in every idustry does something similar..