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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum 2017+ BMW 5 Series (G30) General Discussions 530e vs 540i, decisions!

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      08-18-2019, 05:12 PM   #23
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g30 driving dynamics changed from the f10 - the newer car is more "sporty" being a bit lighter (not so for the 530e) faster steering, and stiffer suspension. It feels like a smaller car, especially compared to the pre-LCI f10. This along with the narrower seat in the standard g30 give it a smaller car feel.

When I had a 530e loaner, it also had superior brake performance which I took to be from the added regenerative braking. Without using any charging, it only got around 32 mpg which isn't bad (except premium is more expensive than diesel lately) with the same driving I get 36 mpg in the 535d.

Turning on the AC before entering an otherwise hot car would be a nice deal maker for me.

As far as diesel vs gasoline goes, the world market and price of fuel is tied to diesel demand, so gasoline is an added distillation product and therefore priced less. So pushing for diesel only makes sense if you also really need the gasoline produced, making diesel not so important to limit CO2 emissions at the production volumes that exist today.

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 08-18-2019 at 05:19 PM..
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      08-18-2019, 06:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
Exactly my hesitation and I cannot say anything before a test drive. Cannot find one in Msport anywhere to test out how it handles with the added weight of the battery packs, and the M suspension.

Not being a driver's car in your opinion pretty much gives a good summary.

Worth considering 530i perhaps for a balance?

I drive a family member's 4GC 428i once in a while and feel I could still use it as a DD, and I guess the weight on 530i is pretty similar though its a much bigger car with higher CoGravity.
The M-Sport package does not include the M-Sport suspension on the 530e, so it will drive the same as a 530e without the M-Sport package, which is to say smooth and refined but extremely heavy and floaty.

I’ve had the 530e as a loaner and it’s a nice relaxing luxury car, but my 530i with M-Sport is much more agile and the suspension is firmer but definitely not harsh. The 704 M-Sport suspension is such a great balance between sport and luxury, and I’m very glad I got it. It still is a very smooth refined luxurious ride, but the M-Sport reduces body roll and just makes the car feel more stable and more sophisticated.

Aside from the inability to get the 704 suspension on the 530e, the extra weight really destroys the handling. If you’re just driving through the city it’s fine, but if you’re on country roads, you feel the weight sifting around and it’s a bit of a handful to manage. You’re also getting a smaller trunk and not all that much electric only range.

I’d keep my focus on the 530i and 540i
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      08-19-2019, 01:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssquared View Post
The M-Sport package does not include the M-Sport suspension on the 530e, so it will drive the same as a 530e without the M-Sport package, which is to say smooth and refined but extremely heavy and floaty.

I’ve had the 530e as a loaner and it’s a nice relaxing luxury car, but my 530i with M-Sport is much more agile and the suspension is firmer but definitely not harsh. The 704 M-Sport suspension is such a great balance between sport and luxury, and I’m very glad I got it. It still is a very smooth refined luxurious ride, but the M-Sport reduces body roll and just makes the car feel more stable and more sophisticated.

Aside from the inability to get the 704 suspension on the 530e, the extra weight really destroys the handling. If you’re just driving through the city it’s fine, but if you’re on country roads, you feel the weight sifting around and it’s a bit of a handful to manage. You’re also getting a smaller trunk and not all that much electric only range.

I’d keep my focus on the 530i and 540i
In the U.K., the updated 530e has a greater electric range without an increase in battery size / reduction in boot capacity. I have been told that adding VDC will improve the ride in both comfort and Sport ! I hope so as it cost £ 1,000
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      08-20-2019, 03:45 PM   #26
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I keep hearing about electric only range. The car was not designed to have a long electric range. It's a hybrid. The configuration keeps cost and weight to a minimum while getting you through your daily commute at 50 mpg. I suggest a test drive. Don't get caught up in the electric hype - just drive it like a BMW to see if you like it. Make sure you experience driving it with a depleted battery. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.
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      08-20-2019, 04:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krash7172 View Post
I keep hearing about electric only range. The car was not designed to have a long electric range. It's a hybrid. The configuration keeps cost and weight to a minimum while getting you through your daily commute at 50 mpg. I suggest a test drive. Don't get caught up in the electric hype - just drive it like a BMW to see if you like it. Make sure you experience driving it with a depleted battery. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.
+1.

Also, many folks distrust the BMW oil change cycle thinking that the annual/10K schedule will keep the car okay through the four year OEM warranty but, who knows later.

With my 530e, I am probably putting only half my miles on the gas motor. That means that effectively I am changing my oil once a year after only about 5K miles.

There is no doubt in my mind that a 530i will handle better than a 530e. It is simply physics. In the same way, a 230i will handle a lot better than a 530i; again physics.

But one has to decide what one wants from a car and then match those desires with the various vehicles out there.
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      08-20-2019, 05:07 PM   #28
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There are other differences between the cars and they may or may not make a difference to a particular buyer.

For example, on a 540i, one can only turn on ventilation in the car with the phone app; with my 530e I can turn on the AC remotely. In North Dakota, that might not matter. But I golf a lot and here in greater Phoenix during the summer the temperature goes higher than 100 degrees fahrenheit. After sitting in the sun in the parking lot for five hours, the car will be hot; but with my 530e, I finish the 17th hole, take out my phone, and turn on the AC. By the time I get to my car, it is comfortable. A great feature, for me.

On the other hand, a 540i can have integral active steering and a 530e cannot. If that is important to someone, then it is an important difference.

And, of course, the 5,000 pound elephant in the room, a change to the sweet BMW inline 6 cylinder engine in the 540i.

So to quote a Tammany Hall politician from around the turn of the 20th century, "you pays your money and youse takes your chances".
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      08-20-2019, 07:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
+1.

Also, many folks distrust the BMW oil change cycle thinking that the annual/10K schedule will keep the car okay through the four year OEM warranty but, who knows later.

With my 530e, I am probably putting only half my miles on the gas motor. That means that effectively I am changing my oil once a year after only about 5K miles.

There is no doubt in my mind that a 530i will handle better than a 530e. It is simply physics. In the same way, a 230i will handle a lot better than a 530i; again physics.

But one has to decide what one wants from a car and then match those desires with the various vehicles out there.
Yeah I saw the same complaint when I picked up my '14 C300 all those years ago. I've always done my oil changes on MB schedule of 10K miles and I have zero issues at 90K miles. I purchased the car CPO and it has another 1.5 years of unlimited mileage CPO coverage. If I weren't trading it in for the BMW I would likely have exceeded 110K miles or more before that warranty expired. I purchased it with less than 10K miles on the clock.

People suggest changing the oil every 5K miles because they somehow know better than the MB engineers (or BMW in this case) who designed and tested the car. But they don't have any answers to why 5K is a magic number. Why not 9K or 2K miles? To me this is just a waste of time, money, and the environment (oil waste is a major source of water pollution). In addition, CPO programs are now offering unlimited mile warranties (and they'll certify a car up to 6 years old and up to 75K miles on the clock) that can easily push a covered car well over 100K miles for an average mileage driver.

If manufacturers setup their service intervals to cover themselves for their limited 4 year warranties only their CPO programs would be bankrupting them. They are able to offer these programs (and still stay solvent) because they have tons of data backing up their service intervals.
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      08-20-2019, 07:52 PM   #30
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Well there isn't really downside to change oil more often (to the engine) other than inconvenience and yes environmental, money is minimal issue considering how much you pay for the car...
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      08-20-2019, 08:11 PM   #31
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The oil change intervals on my 530i are 12 months or 6500 miles whichever occurs first.
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      08-20-2019, 09:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Well there isn't really downside to change oil more often (to the engine) other than inconvenience and yes environmental, money is minimal issue considering how much you pay for the car...
Expert opinion?

SAE 2007-01-4133: The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear

Quote:
Engine oils are subjected to a series of industry standard engine dynamometer tests to measure their wear protection capability, sludge and varnish formation tendencies, and fuel efficiency among several other performance attributes before they are approved for use in customer engines. However, these performance attributes are measured at the end of tests and therefore, do not provide any information on how the properties have changed during the tests. In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered.
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      08-20-2019, 09:42 PM   #33
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One other interesting thing to consider about the ICE running only a fraction of the time is break-in.
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      08-21-2019, 08:26 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Krash7172 View Post
One other interesting thing to consider about the ICE running only a fraction of the time is break-in.
And one more is are we putting too much stress on the ICE as it often has to rev up high when one steps on the accelerator past the kick point? Often the ICE is not warmed up at all when that happens.
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      10-19-2020, 12:27 PM   #35
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It's an old thread but thought will add my experience with the 530e. I bought it primarily for 2 reasons, saving the environment and carpool lane stickers. I got the M-Sport package but I did realize that it doesn't come with the M suspension, so got the Adaptive Dampers, an absolute must for 530e and very good on other cars if folks want to save their backs, especially on the nice california pavement. I drove the 530e without ADC and with and without M-Sport and it felt a little weird, the M-sport suspension was probably better than the default standard suspension it comes with, as the latter is tuned to dampen any shocks to the battery.

Overall loving the car. The tax breaks and incentives reduce the cost of the car substantially and the HOV stickers were priceless during the non-coved times. I am getting 45mpg combined lately, probably filled up gas 3 times this year after my last road trip to SoCal earlier in the year, definitely meeting the objective of saving the environment. The road trip was fantastic, the car has amazing driving characteristics, the combined power delivery of electric + gas is fantastic and the upgrade options with JB4 and bigger intake can easily put it past the 540i. Looking forward to doing that sometime down the line.
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      10-19-2020, 12:52 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Some of you guys need to proofread before clicking "post".

I wonder how much money you'll really save in the real world between the "e" and the "i". We're talking about a $60K+ car, and you're worried about saving $3 a week in gas? If that's the case, buy a Chevy that runs on regular.

And yes, I suspect that any rebate or incentive goes to the buyer, which in the case of a lease, is the leasing company.
I bought two 530e's (2020). For real-world data: Both my wife and I drive mostly in the city on R/T trips of less that 25 mi. Electricity cost is about $20/car/month. I still have over 1/2 tank of petrol in both cars after 9 months of use.

Correct, a person leasing a PHEV does not get the TC and BMW has ceased giving you a partial credit for this.

Look for a 2020 530e--very little difference to the 2021 LCI and MSRP is several thousand dollars less because until the 2021 model year, BMW priced the 530 and 530e identically.
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      10-19-2020, 03:09 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by wknddrivr View Post
The M-Sport package does not include the M-Sport suspension on the 530e, so it will drive the same as a 530e without the M-Sport package, which is to say smooth and refined but extremely heavy and floaty.

I’ve had the 530e as a loaner and it’s a nice relaxing luxury car, but my 530i with M-Sport is much more agile and the suspension is firmer but definitely not harsh. The 704 M-Sport suspension is such a great balance between sport and luxury, and I’m very glad I got it. It still is a very smooth refined luxurious ride, but the M-Sport reduces body roll and just makes the car feel more stable and more sophisticated.

Aside from the inability to get the 704 suspension on the 530e, the extra weight really destroys the handling. If you’re just driving through the city it’s fine, but if you’re on country roads, you feel the weight sifting around and it’s a bit of a handful to manage. You’re also getting a smaller trunk and not all that much electric only range.

I’d keep my focus on the 530i and 540i
I have driven country roads many times in my 530e and it handles very well (I do have the adaptive suspension). I have had to pass cars pulling trailers on a very steep uphill stretch at speeds I won't say and it handled extremely capably.

My real preference would be for a 545e but the company won't sell that in the USA.
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      10-19-2020, 08:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Some of you guys need to proofread before clicking "post".

I wonder how much money you'll really save in the real world between the "e" and the "i". We're talking about a $60K+ car, and you're worried about saving $3 a week in gas? If that's the case, buy a Chevy that runs on regular.

And yes, I suspect that any rebate or incentive goes to the buyer, which in the case of a lease, is the leasing company.
For MY2020 you'd start with a savings of $5836 in Federal Tax rebates for choosing the 530e over the 530i. Since BMW priced them identically from MY2017-MY2020. I wouldn't call a roughly $6K discount on a $60K car small or insignificant.

Additionally, you can save quite a lot in the long run as well depending on how much you charge and where you drive. For me, charging my 530e from flat to full costs less than $1. That gets me ~20 miles of pure EV driving which is a massive savings in city stop and go driving which can easily end up around 10MPG fuel economy numbers in a city like Philly where a city block is only around 400-500 feet on average (or almost 11 stops and starts per mile!). Driving on pure EV will save me at LEAST a gallon of gas which is ~$3/g in Philly. In reality, I get more range in the city thanks to regen so it is even higher.

But you also get the other nice things that help PHEVs be cheaper over their lifetime. Like the drive train being started on electric when cold and allowed to have a much smoother start. Battery being charged from the HV battery to prolong its life, etc. Interestingly enough a CR study showed that PHEVs are the cheapest cars to maintain over 100K miles (even when compared to BEVs). If you're aiming to own the car for 100K miles or more the data suggests the PHEV is the hands down winner (for instance, you'll likely have your brakes last you 70K, 100K, or longer since regen handles braking until you're under 10MPH).

I got my car as a gateway to BEV, but it was a fantastic value at the time in its vehicle class. With price negotiation + IRS rebate I was able to take a $70K custom build down to around $50K. Then the PHEV opened up a discount on insurance pulling my car insurance from $250/m on my previous car (MB C300) to under $150/m since LibMu offers a PHEV discount. That's a hard to argue with value.

Obviously, a BMW will never be a car you buy for its "cheapness" or its "value retention" or "value" alone, but it is hard to argue the 530e was a bad buy. Unless you had very specific needs the 530e was almost always a better buy than the 530i until the LCI arrived where BMW clawed back a lot of that value by adding almost $4K to the 530e price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted99 View Post
I bought two 530e's (2020). For real-world data: Both my wife and I drive mostly in the city on R/T trips of less that 25 mi. Electricity cost is about $20/car/month. I still have over 1/2 tank of petrol in both cars after 9 months of use.

Correct, a person leasing a PHEV does not get the TC and BMW has ceased giving you a partial credit for this.

Look for a 2020 530e--very little difference to the 2021 LCI and MSRP is several thousand dollars less because until the 2021 model year, BMW priced the 530 and 530e identically.
Yeah, losing that credit due to leasing would be a major loss. It is just under $6K for a 530e for MY2020-2021.
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      10-20-2020, 09:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Interestingly enough a CR study showed that PHEVs are the cheapest cars to maintain over 100K miles (even when compared to BEVs).
That story claims that EV vehicles are cheaper, not PHEVs. At a 20 mile range, most of us are going to need to use that ICE. That diminishes many of the cost savings.

I think the big thing that they (and many) are leaving out, ignoring or just not aware of, is that batteries:

a) wear out after a certain number of charge/discharge cycles
b) fail, break, leak, ignite, explode or otherwise cause annoyance
c) are extremely expensive to replace
d) can be an environmental nightmare to recycle

BMW is not Honda, but I've heard a lot of stories of Honda hybrids needing to have the battery replaced at less than 100K miles or after about 5-6 years, Toyota as well. Often the battery replacement is nearly the value of the car at that point.

Heck, I just read an article in the WSJ about many EV and PHEV cars catching on fire, including BMW.
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      10-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
That story claims that EV vehicles are cheaper, not PHEVs. At a 20 mile range, most of us are going to need to use that ICE. That diminishes many of the cost savings.

I think the big thing that they (and many) are leaving out, ignoring or just not aware of, is that batteries:

a) wear out after a certain number of charge/discharge cycles
b) fail, break, leak, ignite, explode or otherwise cause annoyance
c) are extremely expensive to replace
d) can be an environmental nightmare to recycle

BMW is not Honda, but I've heard a lot of stories of Honda hybrids needing to have the battery replaced at less than 100K miles or after about 5-6 years, Toyota as well. Often the battery replacement is nearly the value of the car at that point.

Heck, I just read an article in the WSJ about many EV and PHEV cars catching on fire, including BMW.
Here is what Consumer Reports said:

:Survey results involving hundreds of thousands of CR members show that EV and plug-in hybrid drivers pay half as much to repair and maintain their vehicles. Consumers who purchase an electric car can expect to save an average of $4,600 in repair and maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle compared with a gasoline-powered car, CR’s study shows."

Note that it specifically included phevs in the cost savings.
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      10-20-2020, 11:27 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
That story claims that EV vehicles are cheaper, not PHEVs. At a 20 mile range, most of us are going to need to use that ICE. That diminishes many of the cost savings.

I think the big thing that they (and many) are leaving out, ignoring or just not aware of, is that batteries:

a) wear out after a certain number of charge/discharge cycles
b) fail, break, leak, ignite, explode or otherwise cause annoyance
c) are extremely expensive to replace
d) can be an environmental nightmare to recycle

BMW is not Honda, but I've heard a lot of stories of Honda hybrids needing to have the battery replaced at less than 100K miles or after about 5-6 years, Toyota as well. Often the battery replacement is nearly the value of the car at that point.

Heck, I just read an article in the WSJ about many EV and PHEV cars catching on fire, including BMW.
A PHEV is an EV...

I have included their chart for your reference. Also keep in mind this is Consumer Report owner survey data so this is real people not speculation.

Name:  Screen Shot 2020-10-20 at 12.24.50 PM.jpg
Views: 1732
Size:  80.5 KB

All of the flaws you cited are accounted for in this report as this covers owners who are reporting on their ownership costs over the lifespan of their vehicles...
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      10-20-2020, 11:40 AM   #42
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Sorta like mask wearing. You know what you know.

Last edited by ted99; 10-21-2020 at 09:55 AM..
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      10-20-2020, 03:01 PM   #43
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Heck, I just read an article in the WSJ about many EV and PHEV cars catching on fire, including BMW

I posted a thread last week about BMW recalling worldwide 28,000 plug-in hybrids (all models) manufactured from Jan until Sept this year. The recall is due to the risk of fire !
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      10-20-2020, 03:26 PM   #44
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Heck, I just read an article in the WSJ about many EV and PHEV cars catching on fire, including BMW

I posted a thread last week about BMW recalling worldwide 28,000 plug-in hybrids (all models) manufactured from Jan until Sept this year. The recall is due to the risk of fire !
I'm not sure I follow the train of thought here.

ICE cars have engine fire risks and there have been engine fire risk recalls. Including one from Kia where they note owners shouldn't park these gas powered cars in their garages or the just under 1M vehicles BMW recalled for engine fire risk.

Obviously, manufacturers should recall vehicles that pose a safety risk and I'm glad to see they are doing so irrespective of the power plant. But there is always a risk with all vehicles in this area. My understanding is they still require by law that cars are equipped with fire extinguishers in the EU due to car fire safety laws. That doesn't mean we shouldn't drive gas cars or that one power plant option is inherently safer than others.

Keep in mind that there are almost 200K vehicle engine fires on the highway annually in the US. That's a lot of vehicle fires!
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