[SenorRoadRage]

Originally Posted by F30ZHP

Why do some people call it a Zupra?

Because it's a BMW Z4 with Toyota badging and styling.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by SenorRoadRage

Because it's a BMW Z4 with Toyota badging and styling.

Zupra was already taken for vanity plates in NY, but Zupr4 was available last I checked.

[apex_prd8r]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

C/D's 10 Best hasn't been making sense for years. This year is even worse, especially with putting the SUV's and Trucks with the Cars. Sometimes I think their bias is a little too obvious, especially with the Honda Accord.

The GT350 is an amazing car, and has beat out the M2, Supra and Cayman in a comparison, as well as the Supra in a separate comparison. Yet the 10 Best are revealed and the Cayman and Supra both of which lost, receive a spot, and the GT350, a car that has received universal acclaim - and it deserves it - from C/D and others, is no where to be found on the list.

Same thing happened years ago when the Mazda 6 beat out the Accord and Camry in a comparison, and was claimed as the best driving and overall mid-size sedan, yet the Accord was still featured alongside the Mazda in the 10 Best.

Sometimes I really agree with what they do and write, but other times, I don't understand their choices.

C&D 10-Best is about the 10-best "all-arounders" in their respective classes. In the case of the Accord vs. Mazda6 and Camry... If you read those individual comparison tests, they are usually seeking out the best (insert specific task here) in the category. It could be the "sporties mid-sizer for someone who can't afford a seperate sports car in the garage" (i.e. Mazda6 in that case), or the "best easy to live with for someone who just wants comfort and low maintenance" (Camry)... but for 10-best, C&D is looking for the best all, around package.

Same thing for the 350. It is an outstanding track car, but for a liveable, daily driver sports car; the Cayman and Supra are going to eat it alive.

Just my two-cents.
Mike

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

I haven't heard of ANY dealers that are allowing test drives. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, as said it is a 50k Toyota, not a 911 or even a M8.

This is the same stupid shit that killed of the Focus RS.

A few years ago before I reigned in the budget and just bought a used 135i. I went to test drive a Focus RS, SS 1LE, and an STi. I took my helmet with me to see if I'd fit, as the plan was to occasionally take my DD for HPDE.

No dealer would let me drive the Focus RS. They all basically said, "Let's get the paperwork done and you can drive it around the block, and then if you don't like it, we can tear up the paperwork."

Sorry, not gonna happen.


The Chevy and Subaru dealers had no problem letting me take them out. The Chevy guy didn't like when I walked the SS up the onramp a bit sideways.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

This is the same stupid shit that killed of the Focus RS.

A few years ago before I reigned in the budget and just bought a used 135i. I went to test drive a Focus RS, SS 1LE, and an STi. I took my helmet with me to see if I'd fit, as the plan was to occasionally take my DD for HPDE.

No dealer would let me drive the Focus RS. They all basically said, "Let's get the paperwork done and you can drive it around the block, and then if you don't like it, we can tear up the paperwork."

Sorry, not gonna happen.


The Chevy and Subaru dealers had no problem letting me take them out. The Chevy guy didn't like when I walked the SS up the onramp a bit sideways.

Never understood this mentality from a dealership. The single best way to get someone to buy a car like that is to have them drive it and love it.

[zx10guy]

In the motorcycle world (at least for sport bikes), dealers saying no to test rides are actually normal. The times where you can test ride bikes tend to be when the manufacturer is sponsoring an event.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

In the motorcycle world (at least for sport bikes), dealers saying no to test rides are actually normal. The times where you can test ride bikes tend to be when the manufacturer is sponsoring an event.

I test rode my exact bike before I purchased... I've never had any problems test driving anything (used 2015 Jeep GC, new 2019 Ducati, new 2019 Mazda 3, new 2020 M2C). As long as the dealer knows you are a serious buyer, they usually don't have a problem with it.

Hell, when I got my bike, I didn't even have my endorsement, just a permit. He told me they weren't supposed to let me take it out, but they did anyways. And guess what, I bought the damn thing as soon as we got back from the test ride.

[Meeni]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

This is the same stupid shit that killed of the Focus RS.

No dealer would let me drive the Focus RS. They all basically said, "Let's get the paperwork done and you can drive it around the block, and then if you don't like it, we can tear up the paperwork."

The only reason I could see them doing that is that insuring sport cars for test drives is too expensive? When they have the 'paperwork' you are the insurer of the car and you get the hit on insurance premium if you crash the car? In any case, no test drive = no sale.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Meeni

The only reason I could see them doing that is that insuring sport cars for test drives is too expensive? When they have the 'paperwork' you are the insurer of the car and you get the hit on insurance premium if you crash the car? In any case, no test drive = no sale.

If only they didn't sell a curb hopping, rwd Cars & Coffee vessel of mass destruction at the same dealerships.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I test rode my exact bike before I purchased... I've never had any problems test driving anything (used 2015 Jeep GC, new 2019 Ducati, new 2019 Mazda 3, new 2020 M2C). As long as the dealer knows you are a serious buyer, they usually don't have a problem with it.

Hell, when I got my bike, I didn't even have my endorsement, just a permit. He told me they weren't supposed to let me take it out, but they did anyways. And guess what, I bought the damn thing as soon as we got back from the test ride.

I guess it’s a Japanese sportbike dealer thing, they don’t allow test rides too often. I used to come for parts to some dealer which had BMW and Japanese bikes, and every time I would stop by near any BMW bike they would ask me if I’d like to test ride it. If I stopped by a Honda - it was like I didn’t exist)
Yeah, no test drive or test ride- no sale

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If only they didn't sell a curb hopping, rwd Cars & Coffee vessel of mass destruction at the same dealerships.

This. When I ordered my Mustang GT back in late 2012, they had no problem letting me take a GT out and drive it around and have a little fun.

Then when I special ordered it the dealer made it super easy as well. I basically called them and said, "I want a white, base, track pack, 6 spd. Call me back with a price good enough I don't feel the need to call anyone else, and I'll be there 15 minutes later with the deposit."

At the time I think MSRP was around $34.5k or so? Sold it to me for $30k.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I assume dealers are reluctant to provide test drives for the same reason we're reluctant to buy a car used to provide test drives.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I assume dealers are reluctant to provide test drives for the same reason we're reluctant to buy a car used to provide test drives.

That's why demo cars are sold at a discount. Good dealerships typically have several cars specifically for test drives. Cost of doing business.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by fastboatster

That's why demo cars are sold at a discount. Good dealerships typically have several cars specifically for test drives. Cost of doing business.

The discount you mention is exactly why a dealer may be reluctant. A test drive or two could be unnecessarily expensive. It's a judgement call that's not so difficult to make when the vehicle has limited availability and/or high demand.

Question: would you accept less of a discount from a dealer whom let you test drive a car before you special order a fresh one for yourself? Or would you test drive the car, then shop around for the lowest possible price? I'd bet the vast majority would do the later and show zero appreciation to the dealer that provided a test drive.

[fastboatster]

Don't worry too much about the dealer, they are in this business and know how to make profits with or without testdrives. New cars don't come with 0 miles on the odometer, so if you add several miles during the testdrive, nobody will notice.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by fastboatster

Don't worry too much about the dealer, they are in this business and know how to make profits with or without testdrives. New cars don't come with 0 miles on the odometer, so if you add several miles during the testdrive, nobody will notice.

I'm not worried about the dealers nor the people whining about them. Just trying to help people gain some perspective.

[supra93]

[Alfisti]

Gee based on that the winner is the M2. Legit back seats, more flexible for day to day driving and it laps within a bees dick of the Supra.

[N54Yankee]

The title is Best Drivers Cars -Track Battle, not how comfortable someone is in the back seat, how it is for commuting, fuel mileage or how many bags of groceries fit in the trunk.

[Alfisti]

meh, 0.3 of a second or whatever, basically a dead heat.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

meh, 0.3 of a second or whatever, basically a dead heat.

M2 Competition. The cream of the crop. Bespoke “S” engine with Motorsports magic sauce in suspension tuning. The ULTIMATE driving machine, the pinnacle 2 series from the ultimate driving machine, is slower on track than a car based on a run-of-the-mill convertible that they shared with Toyota.

Meh indeed, when Toyota can out duel BMW using BMW’s chassis. This is the same company that gave us the Camry, up against the company that gave the world the WINNINGEST touring car ever.

If there ever was sign of the impending apocalypse, this is it.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

The discount you mention is exactly why a dealer may be reluctant. A test drive or two could be unnecessarily expensive. It's a judgement call that's not so difficult to make when the vehicle has limited availability and/or high demand.

Question: would you accept less of a discount from a dealer whom let you test drive a car before you special order a fresh one for yourself? Or would you test drive the car, then shop around for the lowest possible price? I'd bet the vast majority would do the later and show zero appreciation to the dealer that provided a test drive.

Why are these dealers supposed to supposed to get a cookie for doing their job? Part of why they are there is for us to test drive these things before we buy. Then we don't buy from them? Well, then THAT dealer should have been more competitive. It's a business, not a popularity contest.