[stormchaser]

I have always been a Quattro fan with almost every legacy Audi in my fleet at some point (Coupe Quattro- 1991, S6, 200, 90). I bought a BMW 530 X Drive after renting one in Germany (I love the tech and beauty of the G30). I also drive more snow miles than almost anyone (500 inches per season). I have Blizzak snow tires on all of my cars.

Surprisingly, the BMW Xdrive on my 530 has performed very well. The balance of this car seems very good. The stopping distance is better than my Audi A6. Driving aggressively in the snow outshined the Audi with the electronics a bit quicker to chime in than the Audi. The Audi allows you to do more without intervention, however the BMW seems safer (Intervenes quicker). Overall driving the BMW in the snow gave me a very high confidence!

For deep snow (1-2 feet) from a stop going uphill, the Audi did better with less intervention. I did turn off the ESP on both cars to make the test fair. I always disengage when going uphill or tackling deep situations.

I considered the G60 but think with the increased weight stopping distance would be longer.

Overall I am very impressed with the BMW. I also like the ease of buttons to switch to Sport Mode when in the snow. This allows you to quickly hit the menu and change them. I like sport mode in the snow since it seems to offer you faster gear changing (Paddle holds higher RPMs or better efficiency,

Chime in with feedback or if you own different systems.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

I have always been a Quattro fan with almost every legacy Audi in my fleet at some point (Coupe Quattro- 1991, S6, 200, 90). I bought a BMW 530 X Drive after renting one in Germany (I love the tech and beauty of the G30). I also drive more snow miles than almost anyone (500 inches per season). I have Blizzak snow tires on all of my cars.

Surprisingly, the BMW Xdrive on my 530 has performed very well. The balance of this car seems very good. The stopping distance is better than my Audi A6. Driving aggressively in the snow outshined the Audi with the electronics a bit quicker to chime in than the Audi. The Audi allows you to do more without intervention, however the BMW seems safer (Intervenes quicker). Overall driving the BMW in the snow gave me a very high confidence!

For deep snow (1-2 feet) from a stop going uphill, the Audi did better with less intervention. I did turn off the ESP on both cars to make the test fair. I always disengage when going uphill or tackling deep situations.

I considered the G60 but think with the increased weight stopping distance would be longer.

Overall I am very impressed with the BMW. I also like the ease of buttons to switch to Sport Mode when in the snow. This allows you to quickly hit the menu and change them. I like sport mode in the snow since it seems to offer you faster gear changing (Paddle holds higher RPMs or better efficiency,

Chime in with feedback or if you own different systems.

Quattro was created as a band-aid to make Audi vehicles perform somewhat on par with upmarket rivals. The Torsen system is inherently nose heavy, and the Haldex implemented in the opposite manner one would want for a performance car.

This is one of the best articles you will ever read on Audi's engineering failures. It generated much hate during its time (as the truth often does), and Audi even banned this dude from new model testing, etc.

Article is in German, but you can probably copy it into a translator for a rough translation:

https://motor-kritik.de/classic/common/10121501.htm

There is no more comprehensive take-down of the Audi approach, marketing, and Quattro systems (from a performance-vehicle perspective).

[CMK]

The traditional Quattro setup has always been a bit of an engineering head-scratcher, and Audi as a company (incl. parent Volkswagen) has always been a stickler for convention and the status quo.

Consider this a tertiary effect of the company's strong ties to Porsche, personified in Ferdinand Piëch. Porsche, as is very well-known, has obsessively stuck by the strange rear-engine layout for the 911, even as their own efforts in the mid-rear engine layout have produced some of the world's greatest sports cars. Credit where it's due: The 911 is an amazing car. Perhaps this continued success in the face of engineering weirdness has encouraged Audi to press on with the odd longitudinal front-engine FWD-based AWD system that nobody else (save Subaru) would ever use.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by CMK

The traditional Quattro setup has always been a bit of an engineering head-scratcher, and Audi as a company (incl. parent Volkswagen) has always been a stickler for convention and the status quo.

The engineering is the polar opposite of status quo. They have spent decades trying to make shopping carts handle like vehicles built with an understanding of basic physics. It is the entire reason Quattro became a mainstay at the company. There was no other way to compete with BMW or Merc where performance and the drive are concerned.

The article above covers this in detail.

[G30M]

not all are transverse, my previous Audi S4 has it mounted length wise and RWD biased, but still understeers a lot

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by g21

not all are transverse, my previous Audi S4 has it mounted length wise and RWD biased, but still understeers a lot

I thought they were all longitudinal. That's why they're nose-heavy; the engine is forward of the front axle.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I thought they were all longitudinal. That's why they're nose-heavy; the engine is forward of the front axle.

you mean you thought they all transverse mounted, the cheaper cars are transverse mounted, the expensive ones are longitudinal mounted (like BMW), RWD biased

but all are nose heavy and forward of the front axle

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by g21

you mean you thought they all transverse mounted, the cheaper cars are transverse mounted, the expensive ones are longitudinal mounted (like BMW), RWD biased

but all are nose heavy and forward of the front axle

They have to be, as even the expensive longi. cars are FWD in base form. The Torsen diff is also a giant clunker.

As much as Haldex gets slagged off, it is actually quite good as a concept--it is just mounted the wrong way 'round in the cheaper Audis.

[CMK]

Originally Posted by Neusser

The engineering is the polar opposite of status quo. They have spent decades trying to make shopping carts handle like vehicles built with an understanding of basic physics. It is the entire reason Quattro became a mainstay at the company. There was no other way to compete with BMW or Merc where performance and the drive are concerned.

The article above covers this in detail.

I mean "status quo" in terms of "how they've always done it" at Audi, not in the broader automotive industry.

[stormchaser]

Will the new X1 being FWD-biased impact anything from a snow standpoint (Only front wheel biased in the lineup)

My statement at the top praised X Drive as a comparison to many other cars, however my 3 VWs (Haldex) and A6 (Torsion) all perform well (Less electronics). I would sum things up as on open road high-speed snow driving, the BMW would be my pick, but in a deep storm where I am stopped or need to pursue getting out of a plow drift, the Audi might perform better. Even with traction control off on my 530, I perceive I still can't get the full grunt of all wheels without some intervention from electronics vs my A6.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

Will the new X1 being FWD-biased impact anything from a snow standpoint (Only front wheel biased in the lineup)

My statement at the top praised X Drive as a comparison to many other cars, however my 3 VWs (Haldex) and A6 (Torsion) all perform well (Less electronics). I would sum things up as on open road high-speed snow driving, the BMW would be my pick, but in a deep storm where I am stopped or need to pursue getting out of a plow drift, the Audi might perform better. Even with traction control off on my 530, I perceive I still can't get the full grunt of all wheels without some intervention from electronics vs my A6.

the expensive AUdis have a mechanical center diff, 4WD is permanent (cheap ones is FWD with part time 4WD)

the BMWs have a multiplate clutch in the transfer case, 4WD depends on the clutch actuation and cannot be permanent (will stop when the multiplate clutches overheat)

so you might be right

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by g21

you mean you thought they all transverse mounted, the cheaper cars are transverse mounted, the expensive ones are longitudinal mounted (like BMW), RWD biased

but all are nose heavy and forward of the front axle

Looks longitudinal (front to rear) to me...

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by g21

the expensive AUdis have a mechanical center diff, 4WD is permanent (cheap ones is FWD with part time 4WD)

the BMWs have a multiplate clutch in the transfer case, 4WD depends on the clutch actuation and cannot be permanent (will stop when the multiplate clutches overheat)

so you might be right

They are all permanent. Haldex isn't on/off.

The Torsen system is a heavy clunker. It is superior (within the Audi range) only in the sense that it can offer a rear-wheel bias to inherently FWD platforms, but this still doesn't negate the poor weight distribution.

Haldex is similar to the BMW system, but since BMW bases its proper cars off of a RWD platform, the Haldex-style system is superior, as it is lighter, always rear-biased, and a simpler solution.