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      01-11-2020, 08:26 PM   #1
SXY550
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M550i downpipe installation

Hi guys I just got an ARM motorsport's G30 downpipe for my car. I'm wondering how long it should take to install it? Someone here tried to charge me $800cad for 6 hrs of labour.... also if you are in Vancouver BC area lmk where is your trusted tune shop!!! Thx in advance!!!
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      01-11-2020, 08:40 PM   #2
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I was quoted downpipe installation as a 5 hour job. Could be as short as 4 hours depending on the skill of the tech.
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      01-11-2020, 08:49 PM   #3
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I got ARM downpipes installed for 300 US
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      01-11-2020, 10:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MoeMo87 View Post
I got ARM downpipes installed for 300 US
Ya that's what my budget is but shops around my area seems to want to charge me the M tax😑
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      01-13-2020, 01:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SXY550 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoeMo87 View Post
I got ARM downpipes installed for 300 US
Ya that's what my budget is but shops around my area seems to want to charge me the M tax😑
Most shops want to charge based on book time. If it says 6 hours of labor they want to charge that even if it takes 2-3 hours. It's BS. Has that fight with BMW before.

Downpipe installation on my M5 F10 was around $400
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      01-13-2020, 01:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXY550 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoeMo87 View Post
I got ARM downpipes installed for 300 US
Ya that's what my budget is but shops around my area seems to want to charge me the M tax😑
Most shops want to charge based on book time. If it says 6 hours of labor they want to charge that even if it takes 2-3 hours. It's BS. Has that fight with BMW before.

Downpipe installation on my M5 F10 was around $400
In all honesty they are more difficult on this car than the f10, and do take more time . I had a shop quote me 4 hours and they had to honor that , although it took them closer to 7.5 hours .
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      01-14-2020, 09:37 AM   #7
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I have done 3 installation on M550. It took me about 6-7 hours.
It is not as easy as it seems.
F90 M5 is much easier. Maybe because it consists of 2 pieces instead of 1 piece per side.
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      02-17-2020, 10:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SXY550 View Post
Hi guys I just got an ARM motorsport's G30 downpipe for my car. I'm wondering how long it should take to install it? Someone here tried to charge me $800cad for 6 hrs of labour.... also if you are in Vancouver BC area lmk where is your trusted tune shop!!! Thx in advance!!!
Did you end up getting it installed? Were there any issues?

I decided to install the ARM downpipes myself because I haven't worked on cars in a while and it's something I used to do a lot. That was a mistake. The lower heat shield on the drivers side took many hours to remove. Overall it was a lot harder than the online guides for previous versions of the N63 engine.

None of the mounting points on the ARM downpipes fit the original mounting points so the exhaust is pretty much hanging off the turbos which I'm not too happy about.
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      03-23-2020, 12:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navinsiri View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXY550 View Post
Hi guys I just got an ARM motorsport's G30 downpipe for my car. I'm wondering how long it should take to install it? Someone here tried to charge me $800cad for 6 hrs of labour.... also if you are in Vancouver BC area lmk where is your trusted tune shop!!! Thx in advance!!!
Did you end up getting it installed? Were there any issues?

I decided to install the ARM downpipes myself because I haven't worked on cars in a while and it's something I used to do a lot. That was a mistake. The lower heat shield on the drivers side took many hours to remove. Overall it was a lot harder than the online guides for previous versions of the N63 engine.

None of the mounting points on the ARM downpipes fit the original mounting points so the exhaust is pretty much hanging off the turbos which I'm not too happy about.
I had someone else installed it for me haha. Ya I get what you mean for the exhaust hanging low because right now I can hear my exhaust squeaking (like a tin can shaking sound) when it is idle.... but I'm not too worried about it since the sound goes away once I put my foot on the pedal
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      03-23-2020, 03:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SXY550 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by navinsiri View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXY550 View Post
Hi guys I just got an ARM motorsport's G30 downpipe for my car. I'm wondering how long it should take to install it? Someone here tried to charge me $800cad for 6 hrs of labour.... also if you are in Vancouver BC area lmk where is your trusted tune shop!!! Thx in advance!!!
Did you end up getting it installed? Were there any issues?

I decided to install the ARM downpipes myself because I haven't worked on cars in a while and it's something I used to do a lot. That was a mistake. The lower heat shield on the drivers side took many hours to remove. Overall it was a lot harder than the online guides for previous versions of the N63 engine.

None of the mounting points on the ARM downpipes fit the original mounting points so the exhaust is pretty much hanging off the turbos which I'm not too happy about.
I had someone else installed it for me haha. Ya I get what you mean for the exhaust hanging low because right now I can hear my exhaust squeaking (like a tin can shaking sound) when it is idle.... but I'm not too worried about it since the sound goes away once I put my foot on the pedal
I have them installed on my car.
You shouldn't hear that noise
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      02-28-2021, 09:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Most shops want to charge based on book time. If it says 6 hours of labor they want to charge that even if it takes 2-3 hours. It's BS.
Out of curiosity, you’re saying skilled technicians that can work faster than book time should only get paid what it takes them? If book was 6 hours and it took them 8, would you pay more because a less experienced tech was slower, or only if it works in your favor?
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      02-28-2021, 06:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Most shops want to charge based on book time. If it says 6 hours of labor they want to charge that even if it takes 2-3 hours. It's BS.
Out of curiosity, you’re saying skilled technicians that can work faster than book time should only get paid what it takes them? If book was 6 hours and it took them 8, would you pay more because a less experienced tech was slower, or only if it works in your favor?
Most shops I've interacted with use book time to provide labor times / estimates. If they are able to complete it sooner than quoted, they charged the customer actual time which is an honest way of doing business and will create loyalty and customer satisfaction.

If you have a tech that's exceeding the estimated book time, it's on the shop to figure it whether the additional time spent on job is justified to pass through to the customer. If the tech is just slow, I don't see that as a qualified pass through and I hope the shop finds a way to train the tech or find someone else to do the job.

I feel in the end, it needs to be a balanced approach. With BMW, their quote times are almost always 50% higher than their actual time which I do not feel is well balanced nor close to actual.
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      02-28-2021, 08:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Most shops I've interacted with use book time to provide labor times / estimates. If they are able to complete it sooner than quoted, they charged the customer actual time which is an honest way of doing business and will create loyalty and customer satisfaction.

If you have a tech that's exceeding the estimated book time, it's on the shop to figure it whether the additional time spent on job is justified to pass through to the customer. If the tech is just slow, I don't see that as a qualified pass through and I hope the shop finds a way to train the tech or find someone else to do the job.

I feel in the end, it needs to be a balanced approach. With BMW, their quote times are almost always 50% higher than their actual time which I do not feel is well balanced nor close to actual.
As a previous shop owner, mechanic, etc, I dont know a single shop that would do that. The whole purpose of book time is to create a fair common rate for labor across the board. If a tech does it faster, you dont charge less, you pat the tech on the back for being more experienced. The majority of techs get paid by flag hour, meaning each hour of labor they flag pays them an hour of labor. Most decent techs will flag 10-12+ hours in an 8 hour day, which is beneficial in getting work done in a timely manor (while not paying for having to redo things, which prevents hacking jobs to get them done) and achieving a living wage. Its not about honesty, its the way shops work. If someone had come into my shop and told me "it only takes 3 hours to do that job, not the 6 youre trying to charge", id just say fine, go do it yourself then. If a tech is taking longer for a legitimate reason, generally the shop will compensate them, but they dont pass it on to the customer unless the reason is the vehicle or another issue causing the delay (rusted parts, broken bolts, aftermarket parts etc).

If you dont like what a shop charges, learn the task yourself and buy your own tools, but its insulting to tell a technician to do it for less when you aren't capable or interested in doing it yourself. By the way, BMW doesn't write the labor books, 3rd parties do, and they do so for all dealerships based on fair marketing practices. Its the length of time a common technician would take to do the work, not just a certified and trained BMW tech that does the same job multiple times per week. Again, paying the techs less takes away from the techs pocketbook.
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      03-01-2021, 09:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Most shops I've interacted with use book time to provide labor times / estimates. If they are able to complete it sooner than quoted, they charged the customer actual time which is an honest way of doing business and will create loyalty and customer satisfaction.

If you have a tech that's exceeding the estimated book time, it's on the shop to figure it whether the additional time spent on job is justified to pass through to the customer. If the tech is just slow, I don't see that as a qualified pass through and I hope the shop finds a way to train the tech or find someone else to do the job.

I feel in the end, it needs to be a balanced approach. With BMW, their quote times are almost always 50% higher than their actual time which I do not feel is well balanced nor close to actual.
As a previous shop owner, mechanic, etc, I dont know a single shop that would do that. The whole purpose of book time is to create a fair common rate for labor across the board. If a tech does it faster, you dont charge less, you pat the tech on the back for being more experienced. The majority of techs get paid by flag hour, meaning each hour of labor they flag pays them an hour of labor. Most decent techs will flag 10-12+ hours in an 8 hour day, which is beneficial in getting work done in a timely manor (while not paying for having to redo things, which prevents hacking jobs to get them done) and achieving a living wage. Its not about honesty, its the way shops work. If someone had come into my shop and told me "it only takes 3 hours to do that job, not the 6 youre trying to charge", id just say fine, go do it yourself then. If a tech is taking longer for a legitimate reason, generally the shop will compensate them, but they dont pass it on to the customer unless the reason is the vehicle or another issue causing the delay (rusted parts, broken bolts, aftermarket parts etc).

If you dont like what a shop charges, learn the task yourself and buy your own tools, but its insulting to tell a technician to do it for less when you aren't capable or interested in doing it yourself. By the way, BMW doesn't write the labor books, 3rd parties do, and they do so for all dealerships based on fair marketing practices. Its the length of time a common technician would take to do the work, not just a certified and trained BMW tech that does the same job multiple times per week. Again, paying the techs less takes away from the techs pocketbook.
I can refer you to several shops that do ... and I've owned many different brand high end cars.

In the end, you're entitled to your opinion based on your experiences. I appreciate that you took the time to explain yours. My experiences have been different and in my current business, we operate much differently.

Thanks
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      03-01-2021, 10:06 AM   #15
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I would not pay more than 3 hours of labor
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      03-02-2021, 07:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
I would not pay more than 3 hours of labor
I dont know what book time is, I was just using the numbers he stated.
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      03-02-2021, 10:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
I dont know what book time is, I was just using the numbers he stated.
I'm not responding to your post, I'm not getting involved between you two

I was just responding to the OP's post about paying for 6 hours of labor
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