[pgviper]

Originally Posted by GraphiteBrawler

As a Born and Bred New Yorker (66th and 2nd, the Manhattan House) I'd personally appreciate it if we can just keep the rumor mill off this post. How it happened, or why it happend, honestly don't matter to many of us that live there anymore. Just that it DID happen. I prefer to remember the people I knew, and think of what we stood for, than why it happened.

I'm certainly no Admin or Moderator, it's just a personal request from someone who lost friends that day. Feel free to ignore.

I remember I was 2 blocks away on Park Place, and less than a week after it all went down, the Outdoor shop I was working at was open, and the Boxing Gym was back at it. No Internet, no Electricity. That's my New York. The tourists can have Times Square and Nobu.

Perseverance of the human spirit. Its the candle that can brighten the darkest of times.

Originally Posted by P1et

I agree with you on that one. Good point.

Gracias!

[CANGRKE70]

I remember the day vividly. Watching the 2nd plane crash into the tower with my mom before going to class. One of the saddest days of my life. Not as New Yorker, but as a human being for the atrocities we do to each other. Blessings to the families who lost loved ones and to the brave first responders who unselfishly risked their lives and died saving their fellow man. If we can treat each other just a bit better today their sacrifice wasn't in vain.

[NickyC]

We'll never forget because nobody will allow you to forget. I see 9/11 as the tragedy that just continues. Thousands upon thousands of our brave men and women killed and maimed in foreign lands, trillions of dollars wasted fighting BS wars, an economy wrecked since that day and has never fully recovered, on and on.

The terror of that day has been greatly multiplied and expanded by our dear leaders for the past 14 years. Think of all the nonsense you have to go through now because of the TSA, the Patriot Act, the NSA, the loss of privacy, the loss of freedoms, etc.

All that has been lost and wasted, all for the mooselim boogeyman who hasn't even attacked us in the fourteen years since. The most ridiculous thing is we didn't even go after who caused it, and you and I both know it was the Saudis.

What a racket, what a scam pulled on all the American people.

[CANGRKE70]

Originally Posted by NickyC

We'll never forget because nobody will allow you to forget. I see 9/11 as the tragedy that just continues. Thousands upon thousands of our brave men and women killed and maimed in foreign lands, trillions of dollars wasted fighting BS wars, an economy wrecked since that day and has never fully recovered, on and on.

The terror of that day has been greatly multiplied and expanded by our dear leaders for the past 14 years. Think of all the nonsense you have to go through now because of the TSA, the Patriot Act, the NSA, the loss of privacy, the loss of freedoms, etc.

All that has been lost and wasted, all for the mooselim boogeyman who hasn't even attacked us in the fourteen years since. The most ridiculous thing is we didn't even go after who caused it, and you and I both know it was the Saudis.

What a racket, what a scam pulled on all the American people.

not the time and place.

[Kwando]

Intense documentary with realtime radio messages

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by CANGRKE70

not the time and place.

Roll your eyes all you want drone, believe the fairy tale.

[CANGRKE70]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Roll your eyes all you want drone, believe the fairy tale.

Thanks Tips!

[charlie fairmont]

Maybe a day late posting, but I was across the street from the Pentagon when it happened. You don't know me to trust me, but I promise it happened. I picked up the pieces of the plane and everything else that was inside. We were the cleanup crew--3rd US Inf (TOG). It happened.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by C5driver

2,996 people died that day.

2,606 civilians in the WTC.
246 passengers and crew from UA93.
343 firefighters.
71 law enforcement.
125 at the Pentagon.
19 terrorists.

The biggest loss was our nation's innocence.

My prayers for all the poor souls , may their souls rest in peace .
Exept for the ones in "RED" I really hope they burn alive in hell !

[Jashley73]

I'm kind of surprised to hear people's sympathetic reactions, from outside the USA. I guess I never realized how far reaching those events really were...

I bet many of you don't remember, but on 9/10/11 I believe, the Iraqi military shot down a U.S. drone, and I remember hearing about in on the radio on my way to school. I was talking about it in 1st period chemistry class with my teacher, (I was a high school sophomore,) and she commented that one of the custodians just told her about some plane flying into a building. I didn't think too much of it - after all, this was small talk, and it hadn't made any headlines... Then the principle came over the P.A. system and told us that a plane had flown in to a building in New York. I will admit, I barely knew what the WTC even was.

And then we went to 2nd period, and saw on live T.V, in real time, the plane hit the 2nd tower...

While I don't get emotional, and certainly none of us in that high school classroom were, I do remember feeling this slightly scary feeling of, "WTF is going on, is the world about to end?!" But what was the most shocking to me, was seeing the buildings collapse, and then the ash clouds just totally consume the city. I remember seeing the ash clouds erupting from the buildings, and a wave of people racing to outrun them. There was one clip of someone running inside a storefront, then looking thru the front windows as the ash cloud swept by and turned the place pitch-black. Out of everything that we watched that day, for some reason, that to me was the most chilling. Probably because it was so easy for me to imagine being on the sidewalk trying to outrun some unstoppable force of carnage...

I can't imagine how you New Yorker's felt that day...

Living under the flight lines of Louisville International Airport, which contains probably one of the largest UPS air-hubs in the country, I remember the dis-belief of how quite the skys were that day. A totally surreal, unpleasant reminder of the reality of what had just happened in New York.

God Bless...

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by charlie fairmont

Maybe a day late posting, but I was across the street from the Pentagon when it happened. You don't know me to trust me, but I promise it happened. I picked up the pieces of the plane and everything else that was inside. We were the cleanup crew--3rd US Inf (TOG). It happened.

I saw on a documentary that the plane hitting the Pentagon did so at 530mph and Flight 93 went down in that field at 580mph.

The difference between a plane crashing at landing speed (~130mph) and nearly 550mph is just staggering.

[MiddleAgedAl]

I think the comments about losing innocence really hit the nail on the head.

When it happened, it was 6am in the time zone where I was at the time, and I had been awakened by by the clock radio blaring some song, and was about to mindlessly stumble into the shower in my usual half-comatose state. I'm not a morning person at all, so when the DJ said a commercial airliner just flew into a tower at the WTC, my initial thought was that I was so tired, I didnt hear that right in my half-asleep stupor.

It didn's seem plausible. That can't be what happened. There HAD to be some mistake. I thought: I'll have a nice hot shower, wake up properly, then listen to what the story REALLY was when I'm able to process it, because that COULDN'T have been it. I didnt consider myself a naive, sheltered person, but that scenario would be unreal if true.

Obviously, when I turned on the TV after my shower, fully awake, well I was permanently recalibrated that day. Now, if I were to hear some unbelievably horrible thing happened tomorrow, my initial response will be "oh shit not again", instead of, "that can't be right, that possibility is surely off the table".

[UncleWede]

I will never forget.

But seriously folks, how long do we hold onto the hate, to the fear, to the mistrust of anyone "different" than our self?

Or was the ground zero monument made, like that in Nagasaki, to remind us of the horror with the hope that it will never be repeated again?

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I will never forget.

But seriously folks, how long do we hold onto the hate, to the fear, to the mistrust of anyone "different" than our self?

Or was the ground zero monument made, like that in Nagasaki, to remind us of the horror with the hope that it will never be repeated again?

Depends on who you ask. There are certainly people who will hate and those who are reflective.

It would be far reaching to assume "we" hold onto the hate, fear, and mistrust because of this event.

[UncleWede]

Many of the comments above contain a large dose of hate

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I will never forget.

But seriously folks, how long do we hold onto the hate, to the fear, to the mistrust of anyone "different" than our self?

Or was the ground zero monument made, like that in Nagasaki, to remind us of the horror with the hope that it will never be repeated again?

Your first question is better suited in the politics sub forum.

On your second question, the use of monument to me is incorrect. Ground zero is a grave site of which the two water falls and the museum serve as markers to tell the story of those that died there. To call it a monument condones the behavior I found totally distasteful in my first post in this thread. This goes for the other two crash sites at the Pentagon and Shanksville.

A friend of mine recounted his experience when he visited Pearl Harbor and the boat ride out to the Arizona. He was riding with a bunch of foreign tourists. At the site they were carrying on, laughing, talking loudly...just plain disrepectful of the sailors that died there. He couldn't hold back any longer and told them to shut up.

This is the reason why I don't think many people will really comprehend the meaning behind "never forget" and 9/11.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Many of the comments above contain a large dose of hate

Wow. Surprised to hear you say that; I thought that overall (stripping out the conspiracy theorist stuff), the comments were generally quite devoid of "hate" compared to how they could have been written, considering what happened.

It's interesting to see compare the way people perceive events, depending on where they are from. Due to geographical isolation, North America has been largely spared by the ongoing continuous violent nonsense that has been a part of regular daily business in places like the middle east since... well, forever. That certainly influences how many of us react to things, compared to how someone from elsewhere may react. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, it just is.

I worked with a person from Egypt, who was a Coptic Christian persecuted by the Islamic Brotherhood for years in his country, had their church literally burned to the ground, and finally escaped to somewhere he could practice his faith in relative peace. VERY enlightening to hear his take on stuff like 9/11, ie: being saddened but not shocked, and recognizing it as a wakeup call for the western world. This is what they had been dealing with for generations, and it had finally spread across the pond. "Now you will start to see what we have been aware of for a long time, do not squander this opportunity." he said. "You are lucky the damage wasn't worse, now you have a chance to protect what you still have left while things are still good".

He didnt buy into the "if you change things in response the terrorists have won", but then his experience of terrorists "winning" is dramatically more violent than someone being "unfairly profiled" at the airport due to them wearing some religious headgear.

Obviously his opinions were greatly shaped by some horrible experiences he had growing up, but I could appreciate that his position was not irrational considering what he had seen.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Your first question is better suited in the politics sub forum.

On your second question, the use of monument to me is incorrect. Ground zero is a grave site of which the two water falls and the museum serve as markers to tell the story of those that died there. To call it a monument condones the behavior I found totally distasteful in my first post in this thread. This goes for the other two crash sites at the Pentagon and Shanksville.

A friend of mine recounted his experience when he visited Pearl Harbor and the boat ride out to the Arizona. He was riding with a bunch of foreign tourists. At the site they were carrying on, laughing, talking loudly...just plain disrepectful of the sailors that died there. He couldn't hold back any longer and told them to shut up.

This is the reason why I don't think many people will really comprehend the meaning behind "never forget" and 9/11.

When i visited the 9/11 memorial you could hear every drop of water and nothing else. No talking, no laughing, etc... It was solemn for sure.

For me, it was a lot to take in, i didn't know anything about the memorial before visiting. My family entered and almost immediately split up without a word. I spent at least the next 30 min slowly walking down two sides of the memorial reading names and trying to wrap my head around what actually happened there.

After a while, i felt like i was coming to grips with the enormity of the event. As i continued to walk, i soon realized i had only experience on half site and there was a whole other memorial of equal size and magnitude holding the same meaning; also representing another huge list of innocent people who lost their lives, because of hate.

[P1]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I will never forget.

But seriously folks, how long do we hold onto the hate, to the fear, to the mistrust of anyone "different" than our self?

Or was the ground zero monument made, like that in Nagasaki, to remind us of the horror with the hope that it will never be repeated again?

Who are you referring to in your first sentence? Are you referring to the Western world, or the terrorist organizations?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

When i visited the 9/11 memorial you could hear every drop of water and nothing else. No talking, no laughing, etc... It was solemn for sure.

For me, it was a lot to take in, i didn't know anything about the memorial before visiting. My family entered and almost immediately split up without a word. I spent at least the next 30 min slowly walking down two sides of the memorial reading names and trying to wrap my head around what actually happened there.

After a while, i felt like i was coming to grips with the enormity of the event. As i continued to walk, i soon realized i had only experience on half site and there was a whole other memorial of equal size and magnitude holding the same meaning; also representing another huge list of innocent people who lost their lives, because of hate.

Then the people you were with that day had their heads screwed on straight. I went through the completed grounds twice and once when the majority of the debris was cleaned up but they still had the beams that resemble a cross there. All three times I had encounters with disrespectful idiots. The two times on the completed grounds were this year. I didn't have to look too hard to find a bunch of idiots doing selfie shots and carrying on like they were at the beach. As I said in my initial post, people were very respectful in the museum but I don't know if the visitors were behaving or forced to behave by the monitors stationed throughout.

Again, as I mentioned in my first post, the visit after the debris had been cleared I ran into plenty of low life scum that had set up kiosks hocking their counterfeit/unauthorized 9/11 related products. I was beside myself how these dirt bags had converted that section of ground zero into some sleazy third world market bizarre.

[P1]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Then the people you were with that day had their heads screwed on straight. I went through the completed grounds twice and once when the majority of the debris was cleaned up but they still had the beams that resemble a cross there. All three times I had encounters with disrespectful idiots. The two times on the completed grounds were this year. I didn't have to look too hard to find a bunch of idiots doing selfie shots and carrying on like they were at the beach. As I said in my initial post, people were very respectful in the museum but I don't know if the visitors were behaving or forced to behave by the monitors stationed throughout.

Again, as I mentioned in my first post, the visit after the debris had been cleared I ran into plenty of low life scum that had set up kiosks hocking their counterfeit/unauthorized 9/11 related products. I was beside myself how these dirt bags had converted that section of ground zero into some sleazy third world market bizarre.

I'm actually surprised the NYPD wouldn't just tell those people to fuck off...

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm actually surprised the NYPD wouldn't just tell those people to fuck off...

If you're talking about the vendors, yes, I was very surprised that they were allowed to be there. They had set up shop along the street next to the "cross". I wanted to tell them to F' off. But I was in uniform representing my Rescue Squad.