[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by Sam_M550i

I am on the fence currently and leaning towards BM3. Shop I go to (Eurotech in Natick, MA) highly recommends the tune.

Does BM3 have a Valet Mode ? The JB4 has it and I consider that awesome!
I dont know the HP/TQ rating of BM3, but the JB4 can add up to 100 HP and 140 Torque to the wheels. That's nuts to me. I consider 523HP and 553 TQ already mindblowing.

[NGT2]

Thanks to all for the input and advice. I've sent a message to Mike about bm3 and also sent an inquiry to Carbahn. I had not looked much at Dinan since Steve Dinan now owns Carbahn, but I will do my homework on that also. There a couple of Indy shops in town that have been highly recommended. Maybe I can get some input from them, also.

[PPMKING]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

All very true, even the "conservative" Map 1 BM3 I think adds ~100HP vs. ~60+HP for Dinan. It is a risk we take I guess with any tune. What is "too much" varies from engine to engine. I think if I could do it again, I would have gone with Map 1 BM3. I did my tune the first month of ownership and I was overly obsessed with Dinan after many years of being an enthusiasts who never tunes. Dinan just seemed to be approval stamped by BMW since many dealers install it. I have learned a lot about tunes since.

I agree with your sentiment. In fact I'm mostly likely going bm3 after my cpo runs out next year. Just giving him info to understand what he's getting into. The bm3 Facebook forum is a great place to get user feedback.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bootmod3/?ref=share

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by PPMKING

I agree with your sentiment. In fact I'm mostly likely going bm3 after my cpo runs out next year. Just giving him info to understand what he's getting into. The bm3 Facebook forum is a great place to get user feedback.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bootmod3/?ref=share

Understood, the more information the better. I'm probably going to add two more years to my CPO, so I'm probably sticking with the V2. I know BM3 offers a flash back to stock, but all the history is saved in the DME.

[ezaircon4jc]

From what I've been reading all these tunes require 93+ octane, yes? Should that be the case, then there's no benefit for those of us restricted to 91 octane to get a tune, yes?

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

From what I've been reading all these tunes require 93+ octane, yes? Should that be the case, then there's no benefit for those of us restricted to 91 octane to get a tune, yes?

From what I've looked at this morning, there are some for 91 octane gas also.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

From what I've been reading all these tunes require 93+ octane, yes? Should that be the case, then there's no benefit for those of us restricted to 91 octane to get a tune, yes?

None of the piggy backs require 93 Octane. In fact I emailed Dinan after I got mine installed about whether 100 Octane would make a difference and they said no, 91 octane will achieve the same results. BM3's base map requires 91 which is widely available, Map 2 requires 93. Shell, Mobil are both 93 octane and have been widely available in my area for a while. We used to have 94 for a while but have not seen that in a while in MA and New England.

Here are the tunes for the N63TU2

https://www.bm3tuning.com/g30/bootmod3-n63t2

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

None of the piggy backs require 93 Octane. In fact I emailed Dinan after I got mine installed about whether 100 Octane would make a difference and they said no, 91 octane will achieve the same results. BM3's base map requires 91 which is widely available, Map 2 requires 93. Shell, Mobil are both 93 octane and have been widely available in my area for a while. We used to have 94 for a while but have not seen that in a while in MA and New England.

Here are the tunes for the N63TU2

https://www.bm3tuning.com/g30/bootmod3-n63t2

So what exactly is the difference between, for example, a Dinan "piggyback" and something like a bm3 tune?

Harder than it should be to figure this out via google.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by NGT2

So what exactly is the difference between, for example, a Dinan "piggyback" and something like a bm3 tune?

Harder than it should be to figure this out via google.

I think the BM3 is a flash tune, where it overwrites the ECU, while the Racechip and JB4 and even the new Dinan plug into the front of your engine ports and 'trick' the computer to add more boost. The racechip only adds about 3psi, where the JB4 can go up to 6psi.

Supposedly the piggyback cannot be discovered by dealerships if you have any issues, but they can if you reflash........that's the rumors at least. I guess if you flashed the ECU back to stock it would be the same as removing the piggyback.

[PPMKING]

It would be a lot to explain.

Piggyback are hardware that plugs into a few sensors and alter/tricks the car's computer (ecu/dme) to get more hp. However the factory ecu parameters are not changed.

Bm3 is a software that reprograms the ecu to increase hp. Flash tune reprogram ecu - timing, boost, fuel etc).

There's tons of info on this forum and google on this subject. I would highly suggest you do some research and have a basic understanding of the 2 before diving in.

[PPMKING]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

I think the BM3 is a flash tune, where it overwrites the ECU, while the Racechip and JB4 and even the new Dinan plug into the front of your engine ports and 'trick' the computer to add more boost. The racechip only adds about 3psi, where the JB4 can go up to 6psi.

Supposedly the piggyback cannot be discovered by dealerships if you have any issues, but they can if you reflash........that's the rumors at least. I guess if you flashed the ECU back to stock it would be the same as removing the piggyback.

The dealer knows if you have a flash tune regardless if you flash back to stock. In fact now when you even just go in for routine service and your car is hooked up, car will be flagged for potential dme changes if you have a tune. They didn't do that in the past.

Piggyback is a little bit different since it doesn't overwrite the dme and supposedly doesn't leave a trace. Most users that I've read that get caught with a piggyback were the ones who left it hooked up.

Can they determine that you had a piggyback? If they want to. Modern cars are mini computers that log everything (more boost than stock, increase timing etc). But would they go to that length? Probably depends on what the repair is. Injectors, sensors, fuel pump? Probably be fixed no issues. Engine replacement? You better believe it's going to bmw regional where they'll pull logs and analyze the data.

[TacticalGunnarM550]

Originally Posted by PPMKING

The dealer knows if you have a flash tune regardless if you flash back to stock. In fact now when you even just go in for routine service and your car is hooked up, car will be flagged for potential dme changes if you have a tune. They didn't do that in the past.

Piggyback is a little bit different since it doesn't overwrite the dme and supposedly doesn't leave a trace. Most users that I've read that get caught with a piggyback were the ones who left it hooked up.

Can they determine that you had a piggyback? If they want to. Modern cars are mini computers that log everything (more boost than stock, increase timing etc). But would they go to that length? Probably depends on what the repair is. Injectors, sensors, fuel pump? Probably be fixed no issues. Engine replacement? You better believe it's going to bmw regional where they'll pull logs and analyze the data.

i'd go piggyback if there was a way to remove a CEL from a downpipe

[NGT2]

@PPMKING HerkHealer

Thanks for the explanations. I did read some of that today but I was confused because I think I had the Dinan (piggyback, apparently) mixed up with the Carbahn flash tune that I read about earlier.

So of the ones I read about earlier, Carbahn and bm3 are flash tunes while Dinan and Racechip are "piggybacks".

I have likes and dislikes for both, so far. The Carbahn product says that they are especially conservative and keep everything safely within the engines parameters. According the them, by actually resetting the computer and dictating the new parameters, it is safer for the engine than the piggyback systems that "trick" the existing program.

On the other hand, I like the idea of being able to basically just unplug it if I want to for some reason, or if I'm going in for service. I'd just need to get more comfortable with the "safety" aspect for the engine.

Also, it seems like the piggy back would be much easier since I'm in a smaller market and it sounds like I can install the piggyback option myself. Is that correct?

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by NGT2

@PPMKING HerkHealer

Thanks for the explanations. I did read some of that today but I was confused because I think I had the Dinan (piggyback, apparently) mixed up with the Carbahn flash tune that I read about earlier.

So of the ones I read about earlier, Carbahn and bm3 are flash tunes while Dinan and Racechip are "piggybacks".

I have likes and dislikes for both, so far. The Carbahn product says that they are especially conservative and keep everything safely within the engines parameters. According the them, by actually resetting the computer and dictating the new parameters, it is safer for the engine than the piggyback systems that "trick" the existing program.

On the other hand, I like the idea of being able to basically just unplug it if I want to for some reason, or if I'm going in for service. I'd just need to get more comfortable with the "safety" aspect for the engine.

Also, it seems like the piggy back would be much easier since I'm in a smaller market and it sounds like I can install the piggyback option myself. Is that correct?

Dinan actually has a flash tune and piggyback (recently released).
The Dinan and Racechip piggybacks are almost identical and offer modest gains of IIRC about 40hp to the wheels. The JB4 piggyback goes up to 100hp/140tq on a M550, and it also has a "Valet" mode to keep those crazy car parkers in check. I really like that on the JB4.

Its up to you, but for me I would not flash my car since M550 motors cost roughly $30k and if anything were to ever happen, i dont want them to know about it.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by TacticalGunnarM550

i'd go piggyback if there was a way to remove a CEL from a downpipe

I thought there was a spacer you can add to where it doesnt throw a code ?

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

Dinan actually has a flash tune and piggyback (recently released).
The Dinan and Racechip piggybacks are almost identical and offer modest gains of IIRC about 40hp to the wheels. The JB4 piggyback goes up to 100hp/140tq on a M550, and it also has a "Valet" mode to keep those crazy car parkers in check. I really like that on the JB4.

Its up to you, but for me I would not flash my car since M550 motors cost roughly $30k and if anything were to ever happen, i dont want them to know about it.

I see. I was just reading about that, too. It looks like the Dinan piggyback does also have a valet mode that you can control via an app, along with the other settings. I need to read or inquire more about the difference between Dinantronic Sport and X. The X is twice cost but they say is more refined. Both are controllable via Bluetooth.

The flash tune sounds cool. Both Dinan and Carbahn explain with confidence how they will be sure it doesn't affect the long term reliability of the engine. But I don't know if I have the stones to install something like that on a daily driving car that I need to function.

This is all interesting the learn about. Having this car has really become a hobby all of its own, which is right up my alley. Very cool. And this forum makes it all much easier to learn.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

I thought there was a spacer you can add to where it doesnt throw a code ?

I thought I read that somewhere, also.

[Joe-BMW33]

Good explanations here. Let me try to dumb it down. Think about the ECU as the cars brain that tells the other parts and engine what to do, such as fuel mix. The ECU is a computer programmed with BMW's settings for telling the engine and components how to run. An ECU flash tune over writes BMWs settings with settings that are more aggressive and increase performance. The history of how the car runs from that point are stored in the DME and ECU, so BMW knows they were altered.

A piggy back has its own "computer" and setting that alters the commands outputted by the ECU after it sends the instructions. It's plugged into various modules and changes the instructions for the modules. It's so downstream, nothing is logged.

[TacticalGunnarM550]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I thought I read that somewhere, also.

not on the m550 that actually works

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by PPMKING

The dealer knows if you have a flash tune regardless if you flash back to stock. In fact now when you even just go in for routine service and your car is hooked up, car will be flagged for potential dme changes if you have a tune. They didn't do that in the past.

Piggyback is a little bit different since it doesn't overwrite the dme and supposedly doesn't leave a trace. Most users that I've read that get caught with a piggyback were the ones who left it hooked up.

Can they determine that you had a piggyback? If they want to. Modern cars are mini computers that log everything (more boost than stock, increase timing etc). But would they go to that length? Probably depends on what the repair is. Injectors, sensors, fuel pump? Probably be fixed no issues. Engine replacement? You better believe it's going to bmw regional where they'll pull logs and analyze the data.

Sounds like you've done extensive research on this. And thank you for clearing things up. I'd imagine an instant flashed/warranty violation vs something they "maybe" can find at a Dealership is encouraging to me. At least in my car. I'm considering putting a JB4 on, and I know the 2020's and up have extensive engine upgrades to encourage more power, but I still dont want to pay the $30k bill for a new engine.........if that should ever happen.

[430Scud]

Originally Posted by PPMKING

The dealer knows if you have a flash tune regardless if you flash back to stock. In fact now when you even just go in for routine service and your car is hooked up, car will be flagged for potential dme changes if you have a tune. They didn't do that in the past.

Piggyback is a little bit different since it doesn't overwrite the dme and supposedly doesn't leave a trace. Most users that I've read that get caught with a piggyback were the ones who left it hooked up.

Can they determine that you had a piggyback? If they want to. Modern cars are mini computers that log everything (more boost than stock, increase timing etc). But would they go to that length? Probably depends on what the repair is. Injectors, sensors, fuel pump? Probably be fixed no issues. Engine replacement? You better believe it's going to bmw regional where they'll pull logs and analyze the data.

I don't think dealers will find the tune unless they are specifically looking for it. (I am not aware they routinely search your engine ECU for modifications to the software) I had my car into the dealer a couple times and never an issue or mention. In fact the second time (April 2021), I lost the tune, as they unexpectedly did a software "update" to my car. No big, I just went back to the tuner, and he copied the new software, added his tune to it, and flashed it back. I will likely be getting another "update" during my fourth and final "free" maintenance service this week and the dealer already told me there is another software update they will apply to my car. My tuner said to bring it back to him after, as he would like a copy of that software version as well. Again, he will add his tune and reflash it back to my car.

[PPMKING]

Originally Posted by 430Scud

I don't think dealers will find the tune unless they are specifically looking for it. (I am not aware they routinely search your engine ECU for modifications to the software) I had my car into the dealer a couple times and never an issue or mention. In fact the second time (April 2021), I lost the tune, as they unexpectedly did a software "update" to my car. No big, I just went back to the tuner, and he copied the new software, added his tune to it, and flashed it back. I will likely be getting another "update" during my fourth and final "free" maintenance service this week and the dealer already told me there is another software update they will apply to my car. My tuner said to bring it back to him after, as he would like a copy of that software version as well. Again, he will add his tune and reflash it back to my car.

In the past dealers had to go looking for it. Now they're removed from the process. ISTA does it now. When your car shows up at the dealer for service it's hooked up to ISTA which runs a scan for faults/errors. You can easily verify what I'm saying by asking any service advisor. Plus it's very easy for them to know by your dme flash count, that's logged.