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      07-06-2015, 06:30 PM   #67
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Weight won't get reduced.... at least not substantially.... with more and more safety requirements, plus technology, more and more weight will be added... just look at Tesla.
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      07-06-2015, 06:36 PM   #68
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My 2 cents: next generation M cars will have the option for a manual transmission. However, That will be the last generation of manual M cars (except possible special editions but I wouldn't hold my breath on that)

regardless, by 2025 this is a foregone conclusion. With the CAFE standards to hit 54.5 MPG, you can't realistically expect the Manual to survive that. And it's only 9.5 years away.

Also there's a bigger issue here. Don't just mourn the manual. Be prepared to mourn the death of the ICE. Natural Aspiration is nearly dead, and by 2025 hybrid/electric technology will dominate the new vehicle market.

Hate to say it but the M vehicles as we know them will most likely only be available in the used market. They will also be dead, sooner then you may think.

Mourn the manual, (I know I will) but be prepared to mourn so much more in the next 10 years.
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      07-06-2015, 06:38 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Yes, but the question is when they will be able to afford to lose those customers because of the savings they'll realize on the development, engineering, and manufacturing of their cars when they only offer one transmission. It will be a sad day, but I'm sure it's coming (6MT take rate dropped from 50% on the E46 M3 to 25% on the E9x), and at that point it will depend on whether the purists will be able to overpower the bean counters. Porsche has managed thus far, though that was achieved largely by creating the Panamera and Cayenne, though you'd think that BMW's current model range covering every possible niche would allow them to make some decisions that prioritize brand image and purism over frugality.
Yes. BMW is a business and when the day comes when they stop developing manual transmissions, it's because they would have done the math and come to the conclusion that it's cheaper to lose a vocal but increasingly-smaller minority of buyers who demand a manual transmission than it is to continue engineering the same car with two different drivetrains.
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      07-06-2015, 06:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfox335i View Post

Also there's a bigger issue here. Don't just mourn the manual. Be prepared to mourn the death of the ICE. Natural Aspiration is nearly dead, and by 2025 hybrid/electric technology will dominate the new vehicle market.

Hate to say it but the M vehicles as we know them will most likely only be available in the used market. They will also be dead, sooner then you may think.
I think your are on point. NA is all but dead except in a handful of sports cars. Pure turbos will live on for another two decades or so. After that point, the only engines you'll see will be hybrid-electrics or pure electrics.
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      07-06-2015, 06:42 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Once again, BMW sell these cars globally not just North America and their appeal and cost effective development means they are easy to conceive and sell at high profit which is why you will be seeing a 5er Gran Turismo replacement as well as new MINI's.
You can't blame "federalizing" or US crash testing then. Those extremely niche vehicles are sold in the US too and BMW pays for testing to sell them here. We don't get the multitude of manual transmission models other folks get. It's a lame excuse that does not pass muster.
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      07-06-2015, 06:43 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Peertwelve View Post
Agree with the 600 hp Limit. Tough to get traction without awd. They won't kill manual transmission here in U.S. I hope!
Not if they do an M sports car. Something along the lines of the AMG's SLS and GT. Like that will happen (or being green lighted for production).
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      07-06-2015, 06:46 PM   #73
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anything over 400hp and traction becomes an issue. i respect the 600hp limit. They better not stop making manuals though! for the M5/M6 sure. but the M2/3/4..no way! Manual makes the car. sure its a touch slower but so much more fun to drive. looks like i'll be keeping my 6mt F80 for a long time if thats the case.
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      07-06-2015, 06:46 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
Plenty of cars out there, take your pick. Your problem is not wanting choice. Your problem is wanting German engineering, best of its class, but refusing to accept technological progress. These are two conflicting goals.
Some of that technological progress completely numbs the driving experience for me. Don't get me wrong, I understand the DCT is superior in terms of speed and efficiency. The thing is, I don't care. I prefer the enjoyment and involvement of rowing my own gears.
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      07-06-2015, 06:52 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xaappx View Post
Weight won't get reduced.... at least not substantially.... with more and more safety requirements, plus technology, more and more weight will be added... just look at Tesla.
I think BMWs primary focus for its cars going forward will be weight reduction. It HAS to be if they want to get really serious about fuel economy, and they really don't have a choice when it comes to becoming more fuel efficient. I think anyone at BMW would tell you that this is a top priority right now in Munich.

Tesla is light years ahead of everyone when it comes to EVs. A P85D goes 0-60 about as fast as a liter bike and pulls nearly identical skidpad numbers as a Panamera GTS, even with all that weight. This coming from a car manufacturer that released its first model less than 8 years ago. So yes, if I'm in the $100K car market (M5, M6, Panamera, etc) I'm DEFINITELY looking at Tesla.
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      07-06-2015, 06:56 PM   #76
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What will be will be folks.......however things go I will always have my manual shift bicycle that I can skid wherever I choose,and I think most motorcycles still manually shift so screw the executives that actually ban the manual BMW....I will shed no tear,just move on to bigger and better things.
Live well my friends....live well.
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      07-06-2015, 07:02 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz
What will be will be folks.......however things go I will always have my manual shift bicycle that I can skid wherever I choose,and I think most motorcycles still manually shift so screw the executives that actually ban the manual BMW....I will shed no tear,just move on to bigger and better things.
Live well my friends....live well.
If they do go away with the MT for the m5/m6- the positive is I've always wanted a lambo time to start saving now!
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      07-06-2015, 07:08 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz
What will be will be folks.......however things go I will always have my manual shift bicycle that I can skid wherever I choose,and I think most motorcycles still manually shift so screw the executives that actually ban the manual BMW....I will shed no tear,just move on to bigger and better things.
Live well my friends....live well.
If they do go away with the MT for the m5/m6- the positive is I've always wanted a lambo time to start saving now!
Now that would be sticking it to them.....hit them where it hurts lol.
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      07-06-2015, 07:10 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwando View Post
Realistically, the general population of buyers probably don't need more than 400hp to drive to work and push it on the weekends. Heck, even that might be pushing it. I rather BMW focus on reducing weight and continuing to advance carbon fibre technology.
Ive never felt at a lack for power in my stock N54. Hell, I drive an i3 to work every day.

The power that these cars are producing is a bit insane.
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      07-06-2015, 07:12 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz
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Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls
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Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz
What will be will be folks.......however things go I will always have my manual shift bicycle that I can skid wherever I choose,and I think most motorcycles still manually shift so screw the executives that actually ban the manual BMW....I will shed no tear,just move on to bigger and better things.
Live well my friends....live well.
If they do go away with the MT for the m5/m6- the positive is I've always wanted a lambo time to start saving now!
Now that would be sticking it to them.....hit them where it hurts lol.
I know I'm not speaking for much of the f13/m6 community- but the biggest reason I didn't go to MB and picked up an AMG GTS or a huracan is because of the MT.

If we start comparing DCT between the more expensive M cars and lambos- I'm pretty certain most would chose the latter so I truly hope they reconsider
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      07-06-2015, 07:19 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I think your are on point. NA is all but dead except in a handful of sports cars. Pure turbos will live on for another two decades or so. After that point, the only engines you'll see will be hybrid-electrics or pure electrics.
The cars you admire are great representatives of their era. As a retired pilot, automation management becomes a high order task for your job. Proven technical advances push the driving envelope without huge understanding in the underlying tech. While pushing throttles up seems to be a primary responsibility, having auto throttles do the same thing frees you up to concentrate on more critical threats. Your division of desired tasks vs those you should be focusing on spells the Nirvana of driving. Automation is simply a tool. Do I think manuals are important--hell yes, because it is a skill that needs to be learned if you travel. Same in planes, if you can't fly manually with all automation turned off, then you shouldn't fly. You obviously haven't grasped or maintained the necessary fundamentals.
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      07-06-2015, 07:21 PM   #82
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I don't see it going away for the next gen M2/3/4 yet. But I don't care, by then, my car collection will be almost complete with an F87 M2, E36 M3 and E92 M3 in the garage. Guess what, they will all be MTs. The only car I'd be missing would be a 997 GT3 or GT4, but that is in the distant future.

I have much respect for DCT, but it's just not for me (driven countless M cars with them). If only some of these idiotic members would recognize that it's a personal choice, we'd be way better off
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      07-06-2015, 07:25 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey
Glad I have a 6MT on the way
my 6mt m3 finished production today... it'll be a keeper!
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      07-06-2015, 07:26 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz
What will be will be folks.......however things go I will always have my manual shift bicycle that I can skid wherever I choose,and I think most motorcycles still manually shift so screw the executives that actually ban the manual BMW....I will shed no tear,just move on to bigger and better things.
Live well my friends....live well.
If they do go away with the MT for the m5/m6- the positive is I've always wanted a lambo time to start saving now!
Now that would be sticking it to them.....hit them where it hurts lol.
I know I'm not speaking for much of the f13/m6 community- but the biggest reason I didn't go to MB and picked up an AMG GTS or a huracan is because of the MT.

If we start comparing DCT between the more expensive M cars and lambos- I'm pretty certain most would chose the latter so I truly hope they reconsider
I don't think it will be anytime soon as they will lose the "enthusiasts"business for sure but the trend towards dct/auto is real and strong.
But losses will result from a decision such as this,especially if alternatives are out there to fill this need as you pointed out.
Next thing you know there will be a Save the manual protests happening in a city near you.
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      07-06-2015, 07:27 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padfan9 View Post
I definitely don't want them to stop increasing power levels. I would like to see at least the M3/M4 go up 5-15hp/tq every few years with added weight savings and better exterior/interior options (IE CF, no more chrome, better wheels, and even better exhaust, etc)
M3 was supposed to be the everyday motorsport oriented commuter car.

What is it now? Not really that IMO. They're on the upper cusp on what is usable on a daily basis.
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      07-06-2015, 07:30 PM   #86
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If ///M ever dumps RWD completely, it's seriously time to move to Porsche
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      07-06-2015, 07:30 PM   #87
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So much win for the consumer here...
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      07-06-2015, 07:33 PM   #88
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Meeting more stringent regulations tomorrow will mean goodbye to not only the MT, but many other attributes we enjoy today.

As a result, cars 10 years from now will be significantly different than today.

Hopefully not in a 1970's neutering way either.
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