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      07-06-2015, 07:36 PM   #89
Demon23
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With all due respect guys, you have to know that you are a dying breed.
The future M3 / M5 / M6 customers are kids in their 20's now how had at some point groing up, Playstations or Xboxes with controllers and paddles... they are use to that, they like it, and very few of them will ever develop a taste for the manual box.

Everything today is about specs, numbers, everything is quantified, and this is why the manual box will die.
There are too few customers for manual cars left, and as many of you already pointed out before me, meeting emission and fuel restrictions ... is becoming, slowly but surely, impossible while using a manual box...

BMW already made a great step twards you NA guys, with the manual M5 and M6 ... which to my knowledge, has not been offered on any other market but yours... aaaaaaaaaaand.. it's not great... why ? because the car was designed for a DCT... and does not work that great with a manual.. and with that aside, as BMW is a company looking to make money from its products, i'm not even sure that the number of M5/M6's that were sold as manuals in NA, will cover the cost of the developement for that particular version of the car...

With that aside ... automatic is the future, and we might still have 10 years of really awesome manuals before us... just imagine an M2 CSL manual.. running with 400 HP and a 3000-ish pound body on it... i don't know about you but i wouldn't need anything more than that for pure driving pleasure using a stick... and who knows.. maybe we will have one..

On another front, capping the power to 600 is normal, i just wish to God that they would actually cut 4-500 pounds of the M5's weight by using a carbon tub. That would be a dream M5 as well, even RWD only, auto or stick, really doesn't matter.. just get rid of that weight !!!!

I find it so funny when i hear the same story oooooover... and ooooover... and ooooover again... every time they launch a new M3... " X part is Y% lighter than the previous generation.. the V8 is lighter than the inline 6 that it comes to replace it... bla ... bla bla... ", and still the cars are heavier and heavier... and still, in the last 20 years at least, the lightest car (by far i might add), was the absolutely sublime 2004 M3 CSL .. Sure they tried to copy it later on... but put the E92 GTS on a scale and ... well.. we all know the story...

Last edited by Demon23; 07-07-2015 at 07:02 AM.. Reason: -
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      07-06-2015, 07:38 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
I don't think it will be anytime soon as they will lose the "enthusiasts"business for sure but the trend towards dct/auto is real and strong.
But losses will result from a decision such as this,especially if alternatives are out there to fill this need as you pointed out.
Next thing you know there will be a Save the manual protests happening in a city near you.
Its being phased-out because MT is such a small % of vehicles sold. The cost of losing a small % of enthusiast may pale in comparison to the savings of not building and supporting MT.
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      07-06-2015, 07:42 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest M235i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
I don't think it will be anytime soon as they will lose the "enthusiasts"business for sure but the trend towards dct/auto is real and strong.
But losses will result from a decision such as this,especially if alternatives are out there to fill this need as you pointed out.
Next thing you know there will be a Save the manual protests happening in a city near you.
Its being phased-out because MT is such a small % of vehicles sold. The cost of losing a small % of enthusiast may pale in comparison to the savings of not building and supporting MT.
I just don't get where the loss comes from for the MT.

Especially when it's a 0 dollar cost option.

Maybe if they keep the option how they have it now for the m5/m6 (meaning dealerships don't order them unless it's specifically built for a customer)

When I submitted my order for my 2016 m6- I had to sign a waiver stating that if I for any reason decided not to take the car (it's individual ext and int with a 6 spd MT) my deposit would be refundable but only after the car has been sold.

This seemed like a fair trade off.
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      07-06-2015, 07:43 PM   #92
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Screw the manuals and show me the FWD mini vans...

Said no one ever.

I like how scott justifies the niche vehicles bmw sells here by mentioning the different markets they're offered yet we can't get a 328i wagon with a stick here. Come on man.
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      07-06-2015, 07:55 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
M3 was supposed to be the everyday motorsport oriented commuter car.

What is it now? Not really that IMO. They're on the upper cusp on what is usable on a daily basis.
+1

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      07-06-2015, 07:59 PM   #94
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      07-06-2015, 08:02 PM   #95
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M cars to top out at 600 HP?
Until AMG-RS-V rock above 600hp then?
Heck, Dodge/Mustangs are rocking above that these days.

BMW is talking out the side of there mouths
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      07-06-2015, 08:04 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
My conspiracy theory here is that automakers make doublespeak comments like this as a trial balloon to gauge customer reaction in order to help inform their decisions. Still, given that Porsche is rumored to be bringing the manual BACK to the GT3 at least as an option and introducing a brand new 911 GT car optimized for driver involvement over raw speed after the reaction to the PDK-only GT3, I'm surprised to see BMW potentially poised to make the same mistake that Porsche is already working to correct.
Amen. I immediately thought of this new 911 GT car as I read this and I could not agree more. As cars get more and more detached and tech heavy, there will be a wave of momentum for automakers to offer "driver involvement over raw speed" as you say, as a new lure for customers. That's what I think and what I hope at least. Porsche, if it is the canary, seems to agree with that for sure (think cayman GT4 as well).
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      07-06-2015, 08:06 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwando View Post
Realistically, the general population of buyers probably don't need more than 400hp to drive to work and push it on the weekends. Heck, even that might be pushing it. I rather BMW focus on reducing weight and continuing to advance carbon fibre technology.
Ive never felt at a lack for power in my stock N54. Hell, I drive an i3 to work every day.

The power that these cars are producing is a bit insane.
Yes indeed !
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      07-06-2015, 08:10 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by left123 View Post
Amen. I immediately thought of this new 911 GT car as I read this and I could not agree more. As cars get more and more detached and tech heavy, there will be a wave of momentum for automakers to offer "driver involvement over raw speed" as you say, as a new lure for customers. That's what I think and what I hope at least. Porsche, if it is the canary, seems to agree with that for sure (think cayman GT4 as well).
Oh, I am. There's a November build slot with my name on it if I want it, and it's looking increasingly like I will. Until the GT4 was announced, I fully expected to keep my E92 long-term since there was nothing on the market now or expected in the future that I would rather have this side of a 458, which is out of the question for me. If I were buying a new car today in a GT4-less world, I would probably get an F8x M3 or M4, but given that I already own an E92, I just don't see my car plus ~$40K in value there to justify the upgrade -- in fact I'm not even sure I'd consider it an upgrade in all aspects.
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      07-06-2015, 08:12 PM   #99
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Fast forward to a future where self-driving cars are ubiquitous; the manual versus DCT debate will probably be irrelevant.
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      07-06-2015, 08:14 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest M235i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
I don't think it will be anytime soon as they will lose the "enthusiasts"business for sure but the trend towards dct/auto is real and strong.
But losses will result from a decision such as this,especially if alternatives are out there to fill this need as you pointed out.
Next thing you know there will be a Save the manual protests happening in a city near you.
Its being phased-out because MT is such a small % of vehicles sold. The cost of losing a small % of enthusiast may pale in comparison to the savings of not building and supporting MT.
Yes the bean counters will have their say and the metrics are in place and once the cost/benefit analysis is swayed one side or the other that's when the axe comes chopping downward for/against the mighty MT.......IMO
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      07-06-2015, 08:23 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest M235i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
I don't think it will be anytime soon as they will lose the "enthusiasts"business for sure but the trend towards dct/auto is real and strong.
But losses will result from a decision such as this,especially if alternatives are out there to fill this need as you pointed out.
Next thing you know there will be a Save the manual protests happening in a city near you.
Its being phased-out because MT is such a small % of vehicles sold. The cost of losing a small % of enthusiast may pale in comparison to the savings of not building and supporting MT.
I just don't get where the loss comes from for the MT.

Especially when it's a 0 dollar cost option.

Maybe if they keep the option how they have it now for the m5/m6 (meaning dealerships don't order them unless it's specifically built for a customer)

When I submitted my order for my 2016 m6- I had to sign a waiver stating that if I for any reason decided not to take the car (it's individual ext and int with a 6 spd MT) my deposit would be refundable but only after the car has been sold.

This seemed like a fair trade off.
My guess is they just don't want to develop two separate trannys for a vehicle and just draft and design one per car model,thus saving money by streamlining production/development and other processes.
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      07-06-2015, 08:29 PM   #102
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No MT = Will buy Porsche next time. Simple as that.
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      07-06-2015, 08:29 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antych View Post
About time. No point wasting resources to cater for few dinosaurs.
Most of my favorite cars are the classics for several reasons. Unique character, beauty and even a tad bit of imperfection being some of them. A car shouldn't be just about numbers and whether it can park or brake itself. It should inspire a certain emotion and connection, which is lacking in modern cars.

I'm guessing you've seen some Petrolicious videos on YouTube, but if you haven't, here are some that might make you appreciate the classics. And FYI, I'm in my 30s.



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      07-06-2015, 08:32 PM   #104
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Keep the manual transmission. It is so not about 0-60 times or saving 1 rated MPG. Its about Joy, BMW of all companies should know that.
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      07-06-2015, 08:43 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing
Keep the manual transmission. It is so not about 0-60 times or saving 1 rated MPG. Its about Joy, BMW of all companies should know that.
BMW knows about "joy" alright......and its all $$$ $igns all day long and nothing else.
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      07-06-2015, 08:47 PM   #106
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Honestly, for me it was a hard decision between the DCT and 6MT. The price gap is what made the choice easier. I thought, if I get the DCT and regret it, I'll be 2,900 poorer. If I get the 6MT and regret it, I'll be 2,900 richer. I choose to be richer, lol.
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      07-06-2015, 08:48 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Who knows. Maybe I will have to drive used cars from now on.

Or just keep the 1'er forever as a weekend classic car, and daily drive a full electric. Going to be one of those guys driving an old classic car all weekend.

I am actually in the process of trying to find a winter car right now, very hard to find a BMW with a stick, much, much easier to find an Audi. Don't really want to do it, but may have to, and their AWD system is much better.
This is what I'm planning in a few years. Manual lightweight shit ton of hp shit ton of suspension shit ton of brakes shit ton of rubber priced at m4 levels (but then again might not be comfy for some):

http://www.teambgb.com/Engine-Conversion-s/115.htm
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      07-06-2015, 08:59 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Only if we let it.

If we buy them, they will still make them.

Personally, I will never buy a BMW without a clutch pedal. If they do not offer it, I will absolutely NOT buy one.
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      07-06-2015, 09:00 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Some of us don't buy our cars strictly for the numbers.

That is like going to a fine restaurant and ordering based on the most calories/$.
EXACTLY! And that's why you bought a 135. It's enough for you. You know your limits. Like going to the best restaurant in town, and ordering house wine by the glass.
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      07-06-2015, 09:06 PM   #110
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No manual, holds Boost through the shift, as well as M-DCT!

The End.

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