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      01-13-2017, 06:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Agni View Post
Technological progress won't stop for you, either get with it or you will be left behind.
And if you are so in love with a v8 M3. Guess what buy a e92 M3 now and keep it forever.

My plan is to get an M2 or a slightly used e92 M3 and keep it forever as it will be one of the last great drivers cars.
I don't think any of us intend to get left behind - we will embrace whatever the future brings because we will have no choice. And who knows... maybe we will come to love the electric M cars, or maybe we won't.

The point is we will miss not having the option of having a gas-powered M-car, or a gas-powered car period, and this is a normal reaction. And before that day comes, the manual transmission will disappear, and many of us will understandably be upset about that, but we will pull ourselves together and move on.

Bu we will always think back and reminisce about the good old days, and I think you will probably do the same, as from your comment about buying an M2 or slightly used E92 M3 and keeping it forever, you clearly get just how irreplaceable cars like this will be.

In the end we are all car guys here, and seeing something you love about to become a thing of the past is never easy.
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      01-13-2017, 06:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
You forget that BMW deals with the world and the U.S. isn't the center of it. Trump removing every EPA law we have won't change the strict CO2 limits that much of the world has in place or are being pushed. Then, the article is talking about somewhere in the future, not tomorrow, next year or even in 5 years.
I mentioned in the text it is the whole world finally waking up to this socialist sham, not just here. Finally.
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      01-13-2017, 06:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by addm View Post
Gas is not some God sent wonder fuel. An electric motor is the basis of modern industry. They are everywhere in a modern industrial world. Your diesel locomotive also have electric motor which do the pulling and the diesel engine generate electricity at its narrow efficient rpm band
You should watch video of Rimac one vs Porsche spyder. It is Porsche Spyder which not only got overheated after repeated pulls of drag racing but also lost the race.
And finally Trump is not a God either
First paragraph i totally agree with. I'm not biased for gas, against electric. I'm stating the currrent technology statis. Electric is inferior now and will be for decades. Its main selling feature for now was save money vs gas.

As for trump being god, no way. Obama however is treated like the annointed one and has been for 8 yrs. Where's trumps obligatory nobel peace prize?
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      01-13-2017, 06:20 PM   #48
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You are comparing electric car technology of the past to what is coming in the near future. Its like comparing an iPhone to an iPhone 7, are you claiming there won't be any progress in battery cost/technology? Look at the gigafactory....

Additionally, electric cars are at a point where they won't need subsidies in the future, so there is nothing gov't can do about it. These cars are becoming more and more economically viable. Local Energy Storage + Electric cars are going to be a game changing technology in 10-20yrs.

And FYI Tesla is designed AND built in America, unlike a lot of BMWs and other companies' cars. This is a huge boost to American economy and jobs, Trump is going to support this 100%. Why do you think Elon Musk is on his manufacturing jobs advisory council?
So push it in 20 yrs. Not now. Gas cars are going forward just as fast as electrics are. Compare a 2017 bmw to a 1997. Same car? No. Huge strides. Electrics don't need to advance past today's xars to be viable. They have to advance twice as fast to pass tomorrow's cars. And without economic incentive driving that forward, I don't see that happening for decades. I wouldn't care if this was in a bubble, but it isn't. Every dollar spent on research for this by bmw is less research money spent on the things that are and do sell. And as a result, the rest of the lineup loses. Less advanced and or more expensive than necessary. That equals lower overall sales too if you're keeping score.
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      01-13-2017, 06:54 PM   #49
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People are complaining about hybrid Ms, but frankly I see it as an opportunity. They've moved to forced induction because of emissions purposes right? Hybrid tech could be an alternative way to meet emissions regulations. Instead of the TTV8 currently found in the M5, we could see a naturally aspirated V8 (or even V10) making 400-500hp, assisted by a couple of electric motors (maybe putting out 200hp) in the front. You get the noise and characteristics of a NA engine, with the instant torque of an electric motor to give it a boost low in the rev range, as well as AWD when you need it and even torque vectoring.

It's going to happen. It needs to happen if these cars are even going to survive future regulations, or compete with future electric performance cars. So why not use it to eliminate one of the main criticisms with modern Ms (turbocharging) and enhance performance?
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      01-13-2017, 07:11 PM   #50
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For the life of me I still cannot understand why some people are so vehemently anti EV. I personally have no desire to own one myself, but the outright disdain some people show towards these vehicles really surprises me.

If you don't want an EV car, then don't get one. Technological advancement doesn't stop. and ICEs have been around for well over a hundred years now. We're way overdue for a replacement, one that is both more efficient, cheaper to maintain, more reliable, and better for the environment.

I just don't understand the hatred. I'll drive an ICE powered car until it either becomes too prohibitive to run, or laws are enacted against their use etc., but I'll never fault the technology or hope we all go back to gas guzzling V8s. It makes no sense.

If you're a motor head like me, you should cheer the advancement of EVs. More EVs means less gas is going to be used up, which is going to drive the price of gasoline down. Where is the downside in any of this?
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      01-13-2017, 07:33 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Meatball View Post
People are complaining about hybrid Ms, but frankly I see it as an opportunity. They've moved to forced induction because of emissions purposes right? Hybrid tech could be an alternative way to meet emissions regulations. Instead of the TTV8 currently found in the M5, we could see a naturally aspirated V8 (or even V10) making 400-500hp, assisted by a couple of electric motors (maybe putting out 200hp) in the front. You get the noise and characteristics of a NA engine, with the instant torque of an electric motor to give it a boost low in the rev range, as well as AWD when you need it and even torque vectoring.

It's going to happen. It needs to happen if these cars are even going to survive future regulations, or compete with future electric performance cars. So why not use it to eliminate one of the main criticisms with modern Ms (turbocharging) and enhance performance?
I would be very surprised if they went back to NA.

But we can dream
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      01-13-2017, 07:40 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Meatball View Post
People are complaining about hybrid Ms, but frankly I see it as an opportunity. They've moved to forced induction because of emissions purposes right? Hybrid tech could be an alternative way to meet emissions regulations. Instead of the TTV8 currently found in the M5, we could see a naturally aspirated V8 (or even V10) making 400-500hp, assisted by a couple of electric motors (maybe putting out 200hp) in the front. You get the noise and characteristics of a NA engine, with the instant torque of an electric motor to give it a boost low in the rev range, as well as AWD when you need it and even torque vectoring.

It's going to happen. It needs to happen if these cars are even going to survive future regulations, or compete with future electric performance cars. So why not use it to eliminate one of the main criticisms with modern Ms (turbocharging) and enhance performance?
This^

I would welcome a hybrid option if it did it for performance and not for tree hugging like the hybrid supercars. Ive said for a while BMW should think about an awd M car. That's the future. If doing the front wheels with a pair of electrics for launch andthen to supplement a nice N/A V8+ could be done I'd be first in line. Some things are done for tradition. The 6 series has a soft top convertible for tradition. Don't personally like that one. I prefer a stick for tradition . But not doing awd is going to leave the M cars behind.
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      01-13-2017, 08:33 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
First paragraph i totally agree with. I'm not biased for gas, against electric. I'm stating the currrent technology statis. Electric is inferior now and will be for decades. Its main selling feature for now was save money vs gas.

As for trump being god, no way. Obama however is treated like the annointed one and has been for 8 yrs. Where's trumps obligatory nobel peace prize?
Fundguy, you never change
Every time there is a conversation about anything electric or climate, you always have to fight against it
One day (not in too distant future) you wake up and realize that gas cars are just antiquated pieces of metal
Things evolve, you know, it's not up to you to decide what they want their children to see in the future. Hopefully their future is clean and green (and quiet)

Last edited by AndreyATC; 01-13-2017 at 09:03 PM..
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      01-13-2017, 09:19 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Fundguy, you never change
Every time there is a conversation about anything electric or climate, you always have to fight against it
One day (not in too distant future) you wake up and realize that gas cars are just antiquated pieces of metal
Things evolve, you know, it's not up to you to decide what they want their children to see in the future. Hopefully their future is clean and green (and quiet)
Hmmm
The electric I see is a dead brown wastland created by lithium battery manufacturing, where people get run over 100 times more frequently because they cant hear the "golf cart" coming for them. Cold passionless cars designed for transportation. Not even being driven by people. It becomes a personal public bus. Fun. Don't worry. We're 6 1/2 days away from saving humanity from 1984.
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      01-13-2017, 09:24 PM   #55
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Thank you for the entertaining post!
Got a good laugh out of it
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      01-13-2017, 09:30 PM   #56
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...musk-powerwall
http://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f2...steland-11994/
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      01-13-2017, 09:42 PM   #57
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Maybe you should educate yourself on how Gigafactory will produce and recycle it's batteries
And the operation as a whole
Unfortunately, Toyota is not doing it properly, but they still have old tech batteries, non-lithium
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      01-13-2017, 09:47 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Maybe you should educate yourself on how Gigafactory will produce and recycle it's batteries
And the operation as a whole
Unfortunately, Toyota is not doing it properly, but they still have old tech batteries, non-lithium
Lithium batteries utilize nickel. That's what causes the devastation. And the first article is specifically about the gigafactory.
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      01-13-2017, 10:01 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Lithium batteries utilize nickel. That's what causes the devastation. And the first article is specifically about the gigafactory.
The article is almost 2 years old and they have no idea what they were taking about back then
Modern batteries will last decades and after that they could be utilized elsewhere
Factory will completely recycle them if they ever get there
And frankly, even crashed (totaled) cars modules are getting snatched like hot cakes for number of applications
I personally got 3 modules for my golf cart
Awesome stuff, light years better than Lead-acid crap

And yes, i did order Powerwall 2. Good bargain compared to Generac + installation cost + maintenance

P.S. I got a good read for you:
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borow...sistant-humans
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      01-13-2017, 11:37 PM   #60
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I took my m6gc for a ride this morning, and man , I never get used to those Apro m performance exhaust sound. I better make a clip for future generations, They will not see these things ever again!
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      01-14-2017, 01:14 AM   #61
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As long as BMW finally offers M xDrive on all M models as an option, sounds good.

Time to move off fossil fuels!
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      01-14-2017, 02:12 AM   #62
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quite easy to spot the oldies on this thread i am not exactly a high school kid myself, and though I am certainly going to miss the sound of an engine; lets be honest here, we will run out of fossil fuel. Electric cars are the way forward, unless something else comes along, but nothing will have the sound of an IC engine. I'll always keep an IC car, but will happily embrace an electric M. just because I am old fashioned and like horses, doesnt mean I'll ride a horse to work. Sure I might go horse riding once in a while, but if its impractical then thats that. Cant really understand all the fuss.
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      01-14-2017, 02:41 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by ritzzzzzwik View Post
quite easy to spot the oldies on this thread i am not exactly a high school kid myself, and though I am certainly going to miss the sound of an engine; lets be honest here, we will run out of fossil fuel. Electric cars are the way forward, unless something else comes along, but nothing will have the sound of an IC engine. I'll always keep an IC car, but will happily embrace an electric M. just because I am old fashioned and like horses, doesnt mean I'll ride a horse to work. Sure I might go horse riding once in a while, but if its impractical then thats that. Cant really understand all the fuss.
I'm 23 and I'll keep buying gas cars until I feel I've had enough of them. I really don't like the feel of electric cars and the lack of sound is unnerving. Good thing I've had the chance to own at least 12 gas cars of a wide variety in the span of 6 years and will continue buying them until there aren't any left. By the time gas cars are gone and I am 40+ I wouldn't mind riding in the back seat of my electric chauffeur driven or autonomous whatever S class or 7 series.

I just wish I was born a few decades earlier.
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      01-14-2017, 02:58 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ritzzzzzwik View Post
quite easy to spot the oldies on this thread i am not exactly a high school kid myself, and though I am certainly going to miss the sound of an engine; lets be honest here, we will run out of fossil fuel. Electric cars are the way forward, unless something else comes along, but nothing will have the sound of an IC engine. I'll always keep an IC car, but will happily embrace an electric M. just because I am old fashioned and like horses, doesnt mean I'll ride a horse to work. Sure I might go horse riding once in a while, but if its impractical then thats that. Cant really understand all the fuss.
I'm 23 and I'll keep buying gas cars until I feel I've had enough of them. I really don't like the feel of electric cars and the lack of sound is unnerving. Good thing I've had the chance to own at least 12 gas cars of a wide variety in the span of 6 years and will continue buying them until there aren't any left. By the time gas cars are gone and I am 40+ I wouldn't mind riding in the back seat of my electric chauffeur driven or autonomous whatever S class or 7 series.

I just wish I was born a few decades earlier.
youre an old soul lol, but I see your point. I mean i have no desire to own any all electric cars available today, but cars like P1, 918, i8 show where they can be. look at Tesla now from where they were 8 years ago, its a massive jump. IC engines have remained the same more or less, but the advancements in battery/electric technology has been tremendous. As they get lighter, smaller, more capable, it will become foolish to ignore them. problem is cars like Prius have left a bad taste. i am not sure I'll be able to resist an M that looks like an i8, is lighter, faster, with immediate throttle response. If its packadged right, I dont think Ill miss my IC engines that much.
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      01-14-2017, 05:39 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritzzzzzwik View Post
quite easy to spot the oldies on this thread i am not exactly a high school kid myself, and though I am certainly going to miss the sound of an engine; lets be honest here, we will run out of fossil fuel. Electric cars are the way forward, unless something else comes along, but nothing will have the sound of an IC engine. I'll always keep an IC car, but will happily embrace an electric M. just because I am old fashioned and like horses, doesnt mean I'll ride a horse to work. Sure I might go horse riding once in a while, but if its impractical then thats that. Cant really understand all the fuss.
We have centuries of fossil fuel left if we do nothing. Supplementing it with corn, etc, no we will never run out. We can make it synthetically. Electric cars may be the future. But not outselling ic for 20+, probably more. Theres just too many unsolveable problems at this point. Recharging and storage capacity top of the list. Next environmental impact, which is 1000 times worse, and overheating. Sure, they will progress incrementally, but there's no huge leap coming anytime soon. Batteries were developed initially for the navy for subs decades ago. That tech is almost maxed out and won't get us to the charge it in 5 min necessay. Charge stations everywhere like gas stations ain't happening anytime soon. Etc.

Until they get these things fixed, its a novelty and not a viable option.

The spin out there put out by the liberal left is;
1. Its superior. Its not. Just different.
2. Its good for the environment. Actually the exact opposite.
3. Its inevitable. No. Not at all. I'd guess corn oil powered, or hydrogen powered fuel cells will be the tech of the future.
4. Cost effective. Not without taking my money and using it to buy someone else's car irs not. As in tax subsidies. And those are going to be gone in short order.

People think its superior because its different. Its electronic like my phone so it must be better. What a joke. They can't even make an electric lawn mower better than a gas one yet. Its got one trick. 0-60. It does 60+ terrible, range terrible, fueling terrible, environment terrible, no sound which prevents accidents, etc. Waiting for a law requirong cars running on electric to emit noise for safety purposes.

Sorry. I'll take my awd ic 600hp anyday.
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      01-14-2017, 07:48 AM   #66
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With huge EV subsidies (approx $1B) from the German Government is anyone surprised?
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