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      03-31-2020, 09:53 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
You're right the real problem in the end is communism, and our support and dependance on cheap chinese goods. I sleep well knowing for the past 20 years I've conscious efforts and put my money where my mouth is by always looking for a non china alternative when making a purchase.
you and I frequently disagree on political discussions - but you are 100% dead on in this post.

There is a two-way street here. I don't think anyone would disagree that the Chinese Communist Politburo is corrupt, evil and immoral - but we also need to look inside our own borders as well and realize that we are creating the demand for the low cost products being produced there and increasing the overall quality of life for many low income households.

In the long run, there should be some sort of compromise with the general public in that we accept slightly higher prices for goods in exchange for less exposure to global market shock such as this one.

Only the consumer can make that choice - and unfortunately, I don't have high hopes of that choice being made to any real metric.
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      03-31-2020, 11:36 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
You're right the real problem in the end is communism, and our support and dependance on cheap chinese goods. I sleep well knowing for the past 20 years I've conscious efforts and put my money where my mouth is by always looking for a non china alternative when making a purchase.
I agree. I wish I could say I've made as conscious an effort to avoid buying products from China but I'd be lying. But people can change and improve.

I'm still keeping my iPhone. When it dies I'll make a decision what to get and hope Apple is making them elsewhere by then.
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      03-31-2020, 11:47 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
you and I frequently disagree on political discussions - but you are 100% dead on in this post.

There is a two-way street here. I don't think anyone would disagree that the Chinese Communist Politburo is corrupt, evil and immoral - but we also need to look inside our own borders as well and realize that we are creating the demand for the low cost products being produced there and increasing the overall quality of life for many low income households.

In the long run, there should be some sort of compromise with the general public in that we accept slightly higher prices for goods in exchange for less exposure to global market shock such as this one.

Only the consumer can make that choice - and unfortunately, I don't have high hopes of that choice being made to any real metric.
I believe it occuring, I've talk to several workers who rarely discuss economic or geopolitics and they are saying they are going to refuse buying Chinese products moving forward
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      03-31-2020, 12:23 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I believe it occuring, I've talk to several workers who rarely discuss economic or geopolitics and they are saying they are going to refuse buying Chinese products moving forward
Agreed - but I assume you associate with folks in general that align with your socioeconomic grouping.

The problem is that the majority of Chinese product purchases are made by those on the lower income scales - and this area is where we will have a hard time adjusting purchasing mindsets.
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      03-31-2020, 12:47 PM   #159
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I have always tried to buy "Made in America". When that isn't an option, I look for anywhere but China.

In the past I didn't think about it as much. But once contaminated Pet products started showing up (even though I didn't buy those either).....that just cemented the deal for me.
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      03-31-2020, 12:57 PM   #160
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For a long time we blamed manufacturing to Japan (cars, TV's, VCR's, toasters, etc), at some point it was Mexico, then China, likely will be the SE Asian countries and India next and I think the final frontier will be Africa. I purposely don't buy Chinese goods when possible but don't believe they are the main cause of our problems. This idea that we imports from China will bring these jobs back to the U.S. is far fetched. If you are leaving China you are headed to some other low wage country like Vietnam,Thailand, Cambodia.
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      03-31-2020, 02:17 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
For a long time we blamed manufacturing to Japan (cars, TV's, VCR's, toasters, etc), at some point it was Mexico, then China, likely will be the SE Asian countries and India next and I think the final frontier will be Africa. I purposely don't buy Chinese goods when possible but don't believe they are the main cause of our problems. This idea that we imports from China will bring these jobs back to the U.S. is far fetched. If you are leaving China you are headed to some other low wage country like Vietnam,Thailand, Cambodia.
You're missing the point. They're not talking about simply returning manufacturing to the US. The CCP declared war on the West decades ago and some are just waking up to that fact now. From IP theft to building bases in the Spratly Islands to their current attempt to cover up the coronavirus and instead contributing to its spread globally. Anything that hurts/punishes the CCP is a good thing. If manufacturing moves from China to Vietnam that's great. Less income for a government that has millions in concentration camps.
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      03-31-2020, 02:22 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriphill View Post
You're missing the point. They're not talking about simply returning manufacturing to the US. The CCP declared war on the West decades ago and some are just waking up to that fact now. From IP theft to building bases in the Spratly Islands to their current attempt to cover up the coronavirus and instead contributing to its spread globally. Anything that hurts/punishes the CCP is a good thing. If manufacturing moves from China to Vietnam that's great. Less income for a government that has millions in concentration camps.
If more than financial reasons then I can see your point. Vietnam is also Communist, just better than China?
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      03-31-2020, 02:59 PM   #163
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I'm going to give some very honest feedback about my experience in my quest to buy product not made in china. I had an idea to start an amazon like site that only had product not made in china, or even give the buyer the ability to select which country they want to filter in their search when looking for a product. i.e. search for bed linen and only select the US as country of origin etc.

Here are some learns.

1.) You'll never get it to 100%. Someone gave the example of an iphone. Some things are unavoidable to not buy from China (today at least).

2.) It costs more. You need to put your money where your mouth is. You often find alternatives, but it costs more.

3.) It takes more time to find find something not made in china.

4.) It's scary to see the kinds of things that come from China when you look. Food for example. Both pet food and human food.

5.) You don't get to buy as much because it costs more.

Benefits:

1.) piece of mind you arn't supporting a corrupt government which is the biggest threat and abuser in the world today.

2.) you end up finding products you never knew existed, and you end up finding more local (like in your backyard) suppliers.

3.) I've proven time and time again that stuff made in china (typically) doesnt last. It's a stereotype that's true. I know many manufactures like to say its just as good, but its simple not (in my experience) Companies who manufacture in China have to watch the manufacturing LIKE A HAWK because the chinese will cut corners where they can to save a penny and the businesses don't even know and it makes it to market. The bottom line is I replace thing less that don't come from China. It's better for the environment and better financially long term or at least a wash.

4.) You'll appreciate your possessions more because you paid more for them, and put more effort to finding them. I frankly take better care of my stuff.

I really hope this pandemic wakes people up to view China for what it is. Communism is poison. Their people are oppressed and the government suppresses communication and lies to the world. Even if our governments lie (which they do) they don't suppress people from talking about the truth.

this runs true with my M3 as well. One of the reasons I appreciate it is because it wasn't made in China. If many of you with nice watches knew how few have all their components not from china you'd be sick with your multi thousand dollar purchase. Take TAG for example. Basically every watch case they make comes from China.
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      03-31-2020, 03:00 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
If more than financial reasons then I can see your point. Vietnam is also Communist, just better than China?
not better, just smaller and makes less of an impact. If Vietnam had a billion people it would be on the radar as well.
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      03-31-2020, 03:14 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
If more than financial reasons then I can see your point. Vietnam is also Communist, just better than China?
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

Vietnam has 3 no's: "no military alliances, no foreign troops stationed on Vietnamese soil, and no partnering with a foreign power to combat another."

We have good relations with Vietnam. The U.S.S. Carl Vinson (Carrier) visited Vietnam. Symbolic to show China we support them. They also dispute China Claims to artificial islands.
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      03-31-2020, 03:14 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
If more than financial reasons then I can see your point. Vietnam is also Communist, just better than China?
Vietnam is not a geo-political rival. China wants to dominate the globe financially and militarily with the added bonus that they are evil as f...
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      03-31-2020, 03:51 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Eriphill View Post
Vietnam is not a geo-political rival. China wants to dominate the globe financially and militarily with the added bonus that they are evil as f...
True this.
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      03-31-2020, 04:11 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
You're right the real problem in the end is communism, and our support and dependance on cheap chinese goods. I sleep well knowing for the past 20 years I've conscious efforts and put my money where my mouth is by always looking for a non china alternative when making a purchase.
My husband is the same way. When we go to look for items he is constantly looking to see where it's made. He will happily pay more to know he is buying a product made in the USA. If he can't find one he looks for the lesser of the 2 evils.

A lot of people just want more for less to get a deal. It comes in all forms from products to services.
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      03-31-2020, 04:19 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Eriphill View Post
Vietnam is not a geo-political rival. China wants to dominate the globe financially and militarily with the added bonus that they are evil as f...
I don't think Vietnam has concentration camps for it's citizens, etc.
I think VN would rather be like S.Korea than like China.

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      03-31-2020, 04:28 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I believe it occuring, I've talk to several workers who rarely discuss economic or geopolitics and they are saying they are going to refuse buying Chinese products moving forward
Agreed - but I assume you associate with folks in general that align with your socioeconomic grouping.

The problem is that the majority of Chinese product purchases are made by those on the lower income scales - and this area is where we will have a hard time adjusting purchasing mindsets.
+1

I'm fortunate enough (just like a lot of us on here) that I can decide to purchase higher quality more expensive items over cheaper ones just because of where it is manufactured. Many people cannot make that choice and have to go with the cheapest option just to survive.
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      03-31-2020, 04:45 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Agreed - but I assume you associate with folks in general that align with your socioeconomic grouping.

The problem is that the majority of Chinese product purchases are made by those on the lower income scales - and this area is where we will have a hard time adjusting purchasing mindsets.
Not really I'm Conservatice in a super blue state, Live in a poor/blue collar city but make high income. In the work place I'm the upper management that all the workers are comfortable approaching to have a conversation about anything and I experience the same out in the field so I generally get a pretty good metric of what going on.

So the individuals I recently spoke with can't afford american but they will prefer india oe Vietnam
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      03-31-2020, 04:52 PM   #172
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Do I understand correctly that the insidious Chinese government ate bats and infected about 80 thousand Chinese people so that the whole world would get covid-19?

p.s. In any case, this is a very funny and interesting thread - thanks, I will subscribe.
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      03-31-2020, 05:46 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis S View Post
Do I understand correctly that the insidious Chinese government ate bats and infected about 80 thousand Chinese people so that the whole world would get covid-19?

p.s. In any case, this is a very funny and interesting thread - thanks, I will subscribe.
Everything pointing to a bio leak via

A. An employee getting infected

Or

B. An employee sold lab animals at the meat market.
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      03-31-2020, 06:10 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis S View Post
Do I understand correctly that the insidious Chinese government ate bats and infected about 80 thousand Chinese people so that the whole world would get covid-19?

p.s. In any case, this is a very funny and interesting thread - thanks, I will subscribe.
The Chinese government has been starving their people forcing them to eat anything with a shadow. A lot of people don't understand just how bad communism can be.
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      03-31-2020, 06:51 PM   #175
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Quote:
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The Chinese government has been starving their people forcing them to eat anything with a shadow. A lot of people don't understand just how bad communism can be.
Really China is a third world country. What do you expect.
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      03-31-2020, 07:41 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Really China is a third world country. What do you expect.
Actually, not to be pedantic (well a little bit) the term 3rd world is usually misapplied. It came about back in the cold war. The first world was the US and all allied nations. The second world was the USSR/China and all it's allies. The 3rd world referred to anyone not allied with either bloc. It had nothing to do with how advanced or rich a nation was.

Nowadays it is usually applied towards impoverished or backwards countries so I am being pedantic. Just a passing thought.
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