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      07-07-2015, 03:40 AM   #155
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Not allot of cars will be Manual soon. I used to be a Manual nut. Wouldn't touch an auto because "they drive themselves, there's no driver input, better control of the car".

Turns out a modern auto is awsome. My previous 335i and now DCT would get my money hands down everytime now. You can change so many gears on a back lane in a small amount of time the car control is perfect. It just works. A 10 minute test drive isn't enough to change the mind of a manual fanatic. I had to borrow a 335i for 2 days till i realised it was so much better if you learn how to drive one.

There really is a reason that farrari, Lamborghini, McLaren etc etc all use Dual Clutch Auto's. All the owners of said cars are enthusiasts. They just no when times change.
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      07-07-2015, 04:02 AM   #156
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I suspect that yes, the manuals will one day soon be gone. They've already been dropped by Ferrari, Lamborghini and many believe Porsche is next. I think it's reasonable to assume this round of 6MTs will be the last. Which is why I am so damn glad I got one and why I plan to drive it for many years to come.
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      07-07-2015, 04:20 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
I guess the f80 may become a collector item after all.
You joke but... That's exactly right. 6MT ones anyway. End of an era is here and now. Those last MTs will be coveted.
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      07-07-2015, 05:18 AM   #158
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Production cost of making a reliable engine that can do 100000miles with minor issues is high. You don't see a Ferrari 458 or any other exotic do high mileage like a BMW. Also on the autobahn the M5, RS7 E63 eats almost all Porsches... You better buy a family saloon then
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      07-07-2015, 05:30 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Results like this can be heavily influenced by the ratios that the automaker chooses for each gearbox. If Porsche had used the same ratios on their 7-speed manual as they do for their 7-speed PDK (and the same final drive ratio), I suspect it would have been a lot closer -- but they didn't. And on the Boxster and Cayman side, those cars are sometimes criticized for having too-tall gears in 6MT form compared to the PDK setup that's generally liked and that makes those cars noticeably faster. The conspiracy theorists even claim that this is a concerted effort on Porsche's part to make 6MT less appealing and reduce take rate so that they can justify killing it off.
The point was Top Gear found the manual transmission car faster around the race track, which I think is the point of racing.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      07-07-2015, 05:35 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antych View Post
Don't buy a technologically advanced car then. Vote with your wallet, buy something primitive that lets you enjoy the ride in the way you want. You save money too, so stop whining.
Eating pizza with your hands is just so much more fun.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      07-07-2015, 05:38 AM   #161
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600hp limit is a good social responsibility move from BMW. A few people in this world can handle it without wrecking their rides. Now find a safe way to cut weight to increase the power to weight ratio. As for manual gearboxes, I've said this many times in the past, the manual slushbox is a thing of the past, electronics can not only nimic shifts reliably but shift faster than humans with safety features incorporated: shifting into the wrong gear to overrev and eventually damage the motor. The hardcore slushbox shifters will not agree to this but you are the minority these days.
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      07-07-2015, 06:13 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F83 View Post
I suspect that yes, the manuals will one day soon be gone. They've already been dropped by Ferrari, Lamborghini and many believe Porsche is next. I think it's reasonable to assume this round of 6MTs will be the last. Which is why I am so damn glad I got one and why I plan to drive it for many years to come.
I know they don't offer it on the GT3 or Turbo (or 918 of course), but I see manuals lasting a while at Porsche still. They did just come out with the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder that are manual only as well!
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      07-07-2015, 06:43 AM   #163
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http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a25998/bmw-m-boss-says-manuals-might-go/

Amazing how a slight tweak of the title changes the tone completely
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      07-07-2015, 06:45 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktis_Conviction
The discontinuation of manual transmissions is very upsetting to me
I love manual and learned how to drive in a manual car; however, the DCT is a great transmission. Like turbos and electric steering BMW and other car makers will be forced to retire the manual transmission soon. I heard from a relative who works at BMW USA that the new M5 won't be offered with manual transmission.

Another item he does not talk about it, but will also have the same fate as the manual transmission will be the engines. Soon all engines will some hybrid assist and no longer will be 100% petrol engines.

My $0.02
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      07-07-2015, 06:58 AM   #165
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Certainly one of the reasons fewer and fewer "premium" automobiles (Bimmers, P-cars, Ferraris, MBs) are being sold with manual transmissions is because many of those who can afford such cars are older buyers, and that demographic no longer wants to shift gears for a whole host of reasons. And there's no question those who sell expensive cars don't want cars with MTs in their inventory.

I had this very discussion recently with the sales manager at Hendrick's Porsche in Charlotte. Unless forced by PCNA to accept an MT 911, he won't order one. He insists his customers don't want Porsches with MTs, and he tells those that do that he absolutely will not accept their cars in trade when they change their minds after a few months of ownership.

Ultimately, IMHO it comes down to how the car will be used. If the car in question is a weekender being driven mostly for recreation, there's a lot to be said for shifting gears. Inching along in traffic, on the other hand, is work, and most drivers just aren't up for it.
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      07-07-2015, 07:03 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spied4US View Post
He insists his customers don't want Porsches with MTs, and he tells those that do that he absolutely will not accept their cars in trade when they change their minds after a few months of ownership.
That's absurd. Is he really going to decline someone's business on principal? I have my doubts about how hard it is to sell a manual Porsche in the first place but regardless he could always just send the thing to auction and still come out ahead.
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      07-07-2015, 07:09 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeru
Fast forward to a future where self-driving cars are ubiquitous; the manual versus DCT debate will probably be irrelevant.
The difference in the future being the "save the manual" movement will be championed by people who want to "drive" their vehicle (the new manual enthusiasts) vs. automated driverless vehicles.

The special enthusiast editions will come with a functional steering wheel and pedals.
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      07-07-2015, 07:12 AM   #168
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Not happy about either.if all BMW go to hybrid I'll never buy another one. Only used.:I want my MT 700hp gas powered M cars thx. mad0259:
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      07-07-2015, 07:32 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F83
I suspect that yes, the manuals will one day soon be gone. They've already been dropped by Ferrari, Lamborghini and many believe Porsche is next. I think it's reasonable to assume this round of 6MTs will be the last. Which is why I am so damn glad I got one and why I plan to drive it for many years to come.
lol. You mean Porsche already tried lol. (See 991 PDK)

Stick with Bmw
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      07-07-2015, 07:51 AM   #170
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A touch pedantic or even paranoia over the last few pages when it will be the larger flagship models that will dispose of manual transmissions, I don't envision it happening on the M2,M3 and M4 for at least another generation.
Some are getting too carried away.

For a vehicle like the M5 it makes perfect sense as the rest of the world can live without a manual transmission option.
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      07-07-2015, 08:32 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
A touch pedantic or even paranoia over the last few pages when it will be the larger flagship models that will dispose of manual transmissions, I don't envision it happening on the M2,M3 and M4 for at least another generation.
Some are getting too carried away.

For a vehicle like the M5 it makes perfect sense as the rest of the world can live without a manual transmission option.
HEY! Keep your logic and intelligent comments out of here, this is no place for it lol


The loss of the manual and even gas engines will have to happen at some point for all manufacturers. Power and torque in the cars continues to rise and driver skill is not.

Rather than focus on the power issue, maybe we should concentrate on weight. It means less power and less power means less stress or durability of that clutch meaning more people could drive it.
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      07-07-2015, 08:38 AM   #172
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I find myself looking for and buying older, low mileage, M BMW's with manual transmissions. I just picked up an E46 M3 ZCP 6MT with 40k kms. As for my daily driver executive sedan, I cannot find a replacement for my 2009 E60 535 XDrive MSport 6MT. There has been nothing available from any car manufacture since that is as big, as nice, is AWD and has a manual transmission. Heck, even the F36 435i XDrive Grand Coupe, which is about the same size as the E60, is only available with an automatic. Thank goodness that I take good care of my cars as they look and perform as new or better. I may have to be maintaining my E60 indefinitely as I dont see a viable replacement in the future.

It may be wishfull thinking that the next M5 would be available with an XDrive option and a manual transmission. If so, that would be the replacement for my E60 6MT. BMW, are you listening??

-Mike
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      07-07-2015, 08:40 AM   #173
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Great news for us 1M'ers. Value will shoot up with no MT's on future M's.
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      07-07-2015, 08:44 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Results like this can be heavily influenced by the ratios that the automaker chooses for each gearbox. If Porsche had used the same ratios on their 7-speed manual as they do for their 7-speed PDK (and the same final drive ratio), I suspect it would have been a lot closer -- but they didn't. And on the Boxster and Cayman side, those cars are sometimes criticized for having too-tall gears in 6MT form compared to the PDK setup that's generally liked and that makes those cars noticeably faster. The conspiracy theorists even claim that this is a concerted effort on Porsche's part to make 6MT less appealing and reduce take rate so that they can justify killing it off.
The point was Top Gear found the manual transmission car faster around the race track, which I think is the point of racing.
If MTs are faster around tracks why do race cars have paddle shifters?
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      07-07-2015, 09:46 AM   #175
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You can pry my manual shifter out of my cold dead hands.
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      07-07-2015, 09:50 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookMaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I think your are on point. NA is all but dead except in a handful of sports cars. Pure turbos will live on for another two decades or so. After that point, the only engines you'll see will be hybrid-electrics or pure electrics.
The cars you admire are great representatives of their era. As a retired pilot, automation management becomes a high order task for your job. Proven technical advances push the driving envelope without huge understanding in the underlying tech. While pushing throttles up seems to be a primary responsibility, having auto throttles do the same thing frees you up to concentrate on more critical threats. Your division of desired tasks vs those you should be focusing on spells the Nirvana of driving. Automation is simply a tool. Do I think manuals are important--hell yes, because it is a skill that needs to be learned if you travel. Same in planes, if you can't fly manually with all automation turned off, then you shouldn't fly. You obviously haven't grasped or maintained the necessary fundamentals.
To be clear, I was bemoaning the fact that we're losing all the so-called manual aspects of driving that make it so much fun to do so.
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