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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum 2017+ BMW 5 Series (G30) General Discussions Highway vibrations

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      10-26-2019, 09:02 AM   #23
HighlandPete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFinnish530e View Post
It is far better than it was before, but I know these cars CAN be smoother still. I will still get the car checked again on 5th Nov.
It appears that wheel balance accuracy is at least 'part' of the vibration generator.

Is there any difference in vibration levels according to road surfaces? A bit like how tire noise changes on different surfaces, some vibrations are generated from the type of surface.

Soft bushings can also be a contributor, any imbalance from rotating components doesn't get totally cancelled out, or hidden.
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      10-26-2019, 09:06 AM   #24
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Traditional wheel balancing only using weights is not good enough on the G30 (same thing with the F10´s I had), road force balancing done by an expert is a must! The only G30´s I have driven (including my own) that have been smooth without vibrations are the ones with road force balanced wheels, done when the tires are warm (road force increases when the tires are warmed up) and with preferably no more than 6kg of road force on any wheel assembly.
So if you want a smooth G30, my advice is to do some research and find the best tire workshop in your area and go to them.
Why this isn't checked/done by the dealer before the customer takes delivery, I will never understand.
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      10-26-2019, 09:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Is there any difference in vibration levels according to road surfaces? A bit like how tire noise changes on different surfaces, some vibrations are generated from the type of surface.
Not in my opinion. Doesn’t matter if new tarmac or really rough, still does/did the same.
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      10-26-2019, 09:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krill View Post
Traditional wheel balancing only using weights is not good enough on the G30 (same thing with the F10´s I had), road force balancing done by an expert is a must! The only G30´s I have driven (including my own) that have been smooth without vibrations are the ones with road force balanced wheels, done when the tires are warm (road force increases when the tires are warmed up) and with preferably no more than 6kg of road force on any wheel assembly.
So if you want a smooth G30, my advice is to do some research and find the best tire workshop in your area and go to them.
Why this isn't checked/done by the dealer before the customer takes delivery, I will never understand.
When I had mine tyres replaced, the car was aligned and the vibs were gone. After having changed to summer tyres the problem came back. Changing back to the aligned tyres doesn’t Remote the problem. This is also why the dealer doesn’t want to do anymore because they have seen the same problem on several other cars.
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      10-26-2019, 09:40 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFinnish530e View Post
Not in my opinion. Doesn’t matter if new tarmac or really rough, still does/did the same.
This is also my experience ...
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      10-26-2019, 09:59 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw g30 View Post
When I had mine tyres replaced, the car was aligned and the vibs were gone. After having changed to summer tyres the problem came back. Changing back to the aligned tyres doesn’t Remote the problem. This is also why the dealer doesn’t want to do anymore because they have seen the same problem on several other cars.
I'm intrigued by your experience, may be a clue to what is going on when changing wheels.

You get rid of the vibration issue with new tyres and an alignment. You then fit summer tyres. Were these new to the car, on new rims? You have vibrations?

Then you refit the 'good set' and have vibrations, whereas before taking them off they were fine?

Have I got that correct?
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      10-26-2019, 10:04 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bmw g30 View Post
This is also my experience ...
Almost certainly eliminates the road surface generating and/or amplifying the problem.
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      10-26-2019, 10:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I'm intrigued by your experience, may be a clue to what is going on when changing wheels.

You get rid of the vibration issue with new tyres and an alignment. You then fit summer tyres. Were these new to the car, on new rims? You have vibrations?

Then you refit the 'good set' and have vibrations, whereas before taking them off they were fine?

Have I got that correct?
Yes, that’s correct!
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      10-26-2019, 11:13 AM   #31
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@bmwg30: when you say your car was aligned, you mean actual steering angles and not roadforce balancing? Just making sure.
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      10-26-2019, 11:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bmw g30 View Post
Yes, that’s correct!
That indicates the wheels are involved. The good wheels must have a mounting position, where there is no vibration. You have been there! Does appear there is a tolerance issue somewhere in complete, tightened down, wheel assemblies.

Has the dealer checked for wheel assembly run-out? Like on hubs, disc faces, tried mounting a rim in several positions and measured for variable 'fitted' run-out?

Other than just wheel assembly issues, you have an additional source of vibration, other rotating parts, (drivetrain components). Wheel mounting positions appear to either cancel out or retain vibrations.
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      10-26-2019, 02:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw g30 View Post
When I had mine tyres replaced, the car was aligned and the vibs were gone. After having changed to summer tyres the problem came back. Changing back to the aligned tyres doesn’t Remote the problem. This is also why the dealer doesn’t want to do anymore because they have seen the same problem on several other cars.
Strange that the vibrations were gone with new tires and alignment. That would suggest the summer tire/wheel setup is to blame. Then you note "changed to aligned tyres" except that tires are not aligned. Alignment deals with suspension and toe in/toe out issues. I suspect the wheels themselves are at fault, and that they are slightly out of round. Just as an aside, many years ago I had terrible virbation issues on an MGB and it turned out to be the driveshaft that was ever so slightly out of round.
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      10-26-2019, 06:58 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFinnish530e View Post
@bmwg30: when you say your car was aligned, you mean actual steering angles and not roadforce balancing? Just making sure.
Road force balance on brand New tyres didn’t solve the problem so the dealer had the car for a whole day for inspection. They told me that they had aligned the wheel angles and optimized the car. Did’t ask many questions as the vibs were gone.
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      10-26-2019, 07:01 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by AlteBMW View Post
Strange that the vibrations were gone with new tires and alignment. That would suggest the summer tire/wheel setup is to blame. Then you note "changed to aligned tyres" except that tires are not aligned. Alignment deals with suspension and toe in/toe out issues. I suspect the wheels themselves are at fault, and that they are slightly out of round. Just as an aside, many years ago I had terrible virbation issues on an MGB and it turned out to be the driveshaft that was ever so slightly out of round.
No, I Both summer tyres and Winther tyres have been checked for road force imbalance. So the problem is certainly not the tyres.
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      10-26-2019, 07:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That indicates the wheels are involved. The good wheels must have a mounting position, where there is no vibration. You have been there! Does appear there is a tolerance issue somewhere in complete, tightened down, wheel assemblies.

Has the dealer checked for wheel assembly run-out? Like on hubs, disc faces, tried mounting a rim in several positions and measured for variable 'fitted' run-out?

Other than just wheel assembly issues, you have an additional source of vibration, other rotating parts, (drivetrain components). Wheel mounting positions appear to either cancel out or retain vibrations.

Could be the case but the dealer isn’t willing to replace any further parts as they don’t have a clue.
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      10-29-2019, 02:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That indicates the wheels are involved. The good wheels must have a mounting position, where there is no vibration. You have been there! Does appear there is a tolerance issue somewhere in complete, tightened down, wheel assemblies.

Has the dealer checked for wheel assembly run-out? Like on hubs, disc faces, tried mounting a rim in several positions and measured for variable 'fitted' run-out?

Other than just wheel assembly issues, you have an additional source of vibration, other rotating parts, (drivetrain components). Wheel mounting positions appear to either cancel out or retain vibrations.

Further observarions that might give you a clue ��. I have been on a business trip .. returning from the airport, the outside temperature was 1dgr. Pretty cold. .. guess what the car was almost vibration free, smooth and settled for appr 30-40min. Hard to believe !! Then the vibs came back ��
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      10-30-2019, 12:46 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bmw g30 View Post
Further observarions that might give you a clue ��. I have been on a business trip .. returning from the airport, the outside temperature was 1dgr. Pretty cold. .. guess what the car was almost vibration free, smooth and settled for appr 30-40min. Hard to believe !! Then the vibs came back ��
Possibly the suspension bushing a bit harder, at colder temperature, could be helping control the vibrations from a slight wheel/tyre issue. As they worked, they likely softened.

The old E39 front wheel 'shimmy' was often reduced with new suspension parts. But it wasn't really the bushings that were worn out, new bushes simply gave more control to the vibrations from an existing wheel assembly balance issue.
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      10-30-2019, 03:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Possibly the suspension bushing a bit harder, at colder temperature, could be helping control the vibrations from a slight wheel/tyre issue. As they worked, they likely softened.

The old E39 front wheel 'shimmy' was often reduced with new suspension parts. But it wasn't really the bushings that were worn out, new bushes simply gave more control to the vibrations from an existing wheel assembly balance issue.
Thanks... this morning the weather was even colder but oppose to the trip from the airport the usual shaking/ vibrations were there... don’t really have a clue. Drives me crazy...
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      10-30-2019, 03:27 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bmw g30 View Post
Thanks... this morning the weather was even colder but oppose to the trip from the airport the usual shaking/ vibrations were there... don’t really have a clue. Drives me crazy...
Thinking more about it you might be right wrt several sources to vibrations, that either cancel out each other or amplify. I’m really hoping Bmw will provide some feedback...
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      10-30-2019, 04:04 PM   #41
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Thinking more about it you might be right wrt several sources to vibrations, that either cancel out each other or amplify. I’m really hoping Bmw will provide some feedback...
This is a major problem with trouble shooting, when there is no established fault, or documented issue. The fault finding path is not always obvious, or fool proof.

I recall one vehicle which had what appeared to be an engine vibration/stutter or stumble, at about 30mph in 4th gear on a very light load. It was getting at me, as outside that 200rpm rev range (in that one gear), the engine was fine, no vibrations into the car.

I was getting frustrated, as no tweaking of the engine parameters changed it at all. While thinking where to go with the issue, I by chance replaced the front tires. Driving away from the tire shop I thought, "something's changed about the engine". Smooth as butter, left me scratching my head, how did tires give that limited engine rev range issue? And only in 4th gear at that particular road speed.

I'm a pretty particular guy about tire balance, but there was nothing in running that vehicle which gave me any clue there was a problem with the tires. Something about the drivetrain/tire harmonics, clashed at that one particular set of running parameters.
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      10-30-2019, 04:13 PM   #42
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Really hoping some party could find a solution to this.
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      10-30-2019, 04:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFinnish530e View Post
Really hoping some party could find a solution to this.
As I've stated in a previous post, the F10/F11 has suffered similar issues, many threads on it since 2010. Virtually all who have reported solving the issue did so with rims, tires and/or balancing. One user I recall had a balance using the five spigot holes, rather than the centre hub. Positive solution.

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Hi guys, reading all your comments with interest. I had same issue for approx 20k miles on my m sport.... It was so bad i would not drive it and use the mrs car instead. I had 2 new rear tyres at 30k miles...still there, but slightly different feel. A number of times bmw balanced the wheels and I even found someone with the wheel force balanced... Problem still there... One day I came across a tyre place who have a really good balanced whereby the attach the wheels to the machine through the 5 bolt lug holes and not the centre hole. The centre hole may not be central. Most tyre places use the center hold, even my bmw dealer. So after having the rears balanced n this way.... Amazing, it completely transformed the car.... The difference was remarkable.... So smooth, even my bmw dealer commented how smooth it was whilst on road test few weeks back... For the record I'm still on runflats no problem......
https://f10.5post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=36
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      10-31-2019, 05:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
As I've stated in a previous post, the F10/F11 has suffered similar issues, many threads on it since 2010. Virtually all who have reported solving the issue did so with rims, tires and/or balancing. One user I recall had a balance using the five spigot holes, rather than the centre hub. Positive solution.



https://f10.5post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=36

I have seen the thread but how is this done?? Is there a speciel tool ??
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